Frustrated/I Don't Get It

NaClCrocodile

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Okay, so my tank has been up since early August and it just isn't running like it should be by now. I've consistently tested my water at Ca 470, Alk 7.9, and NO3 0-0.2 (Salifert). I don't have a Mag test, but I may go to the LFS tomorrow and have them test it for me. The tank is 33g (25"x18"x18") plus a 10g sump. Flow is off an MP10, lighting is from a 6x24w ATI PM raised about 8" off the surface of the water, and skimming is provided by an SWC160 Cone. I have one chalk basslet, one melanarus wrasse and a pair of clowns. My skimmer doesn't seem to pull any dark sludge, but obviously it's getting something since my NO3 stays so low. I'm having a little battle with cyano currently which I'm sure isn't helping things, but problems started way before that. What I'm frustrated about is that I can't seem to keep SPS happy. I've gotten multiple frags and none of them seem to have any polyp extension and they just look bad or STN. It's really starting to get at me because everything seems to test out in line but nothing but zoos are happy. Someone help before I go FOWLR...
 
Your alk is really low from what I have read on here. My LFS says SPS seem to like an alk around like 13-16, and they consume it very fast too. I'm sure some SPS keepers will chime in soon.
 
Your alk is really low from what I have read on here. My LFS says SPS seem to like an alk around like 13-16, and they consume it very fast too. I'm sure some SPS keepers will chime in soon.
13-16 DKH is murder,7.9 is a bit low but not deadly I like my DKH at 9.5 but know a few people who keep theirs at 8 with no problems.
 
Man I just don't get it. True, it is a little lower than I'd like, but I'll probably be switching to Tropic Marin salt soon. This Oceanic salt with Ca of 520 is getting on my nerves. Almost out of it thank God.
 
I thought PO4 was one of the fine tuning things; that it was more for coloration than anything. I only use RO/DI water so I don't know where they'd be leaching from, but it is a possibility. Unfortunately nobody around here has a Hanna Checker or anything equivalent and I just won't have the spare cash until next semester.
 
Well I just searched the internet to see dkh levels for a sps tank and most of what I read says 7 to 13 dkh. Lots of opinons out there lol. I don't have sps so take it for what it's worth. Good luck.
 
I thought PO4 was one of the fine tuning things; that it was more for coloration than anything. I only use RO/DI water so I don't know where they'd be leaching from, but it is a possibility. Unfortunately nobody around here has a Hanna Checker or anything equivalent and I just won't have the spare cash until next semester.
High P04 levels can be deadly and since your having an algae problem it is more likely then not that your P04 is trippin.
 
+1 on the P04, you want your PO4 as low as you can Maintain it..
How Stable are your Parameters.. Stability is key IMO and often over looked.. also get yourself a Mag Kit, once it's tested Let us know..
 
You stated that your skimmer is not producing very well. Have you tried adjusting your skimmer so that it skims wet? Do you have a refugium? If so are you running some sort of Macro Algae such as Chaeto for nutrient export?
As stated above, stability is the most important aspect especially when it comes to keeping SPS.
 
if you have cyano then something isn't right be it P04, N03 or both. Try microbactor it's really good stuff it'll kick the cyano by the end of the initial dosing period. also with the smaller tanks small differences in your params could be a huge deal. plus your tank is still super new bro give it time. your tank is going through the newbie stage your just barely out of cycling and it's pretty heavily stocked, thats why it sounds like a nutrient problem nothing a phosphate sponge and a couple of water changes won't fix. NO MORE FISH until you give your tank some time to mature 4 months in this hobby is no where near enough time.
 
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one more thing to add though.. if PO4 is a issue you might want to drop that slowly.. A P04 sponge might suck all that out kinda fast making some grumpy SPS even grumpier.. IMO..
 
You guy's don't think his tank is just going through a normal new tank cycle, and that he might just be getting his water quality stable and consistent? also check you TDS levels on you RODI filter you might need to change the filters out on you unit, your po4 is always a big deal you might want to add a GFO and carbon reactor, and test you water before you add it to your tank salt is some time inconsistant. Make sure you get that alk up to about 9 and check your mag. One last thing always rember how your coral looked as it was dieing because that can give you a lot of info on things. It all just takes time dont rush!!!!!! Good luck!
 
It sounds like new tank cycle. It's only 4 months old, so it's about time for cyano to appear. Couple of things that might be important. What are you feeding your fish, and how often? Do you have a clean up crew? Did you order the live rock, buy it from an LFS, or get it from another reefer? Phosphates comes in different forms. There is the phosphate that is introduced through your water, and fish food. There is also the phosphates that can be trapped in rocks, and substrate. Cyano does a good job of pulling phosphates wherever it can get it. Does your sump have a small refugium, or is it just a sump? Possibly increasing your sump to a 20 high could help. This would give you more water volume, and allow for macro algae like chaeto to be added. This will compete with the cyano for phosphates/nitrates.
 
+1 on the new tank cycle, just sounds like new tank cycle still, litte more info on the tank set up, what kind of substrate ( live or new), live rock ordered/bought lfs/ bought from fellow reefer, whats in your sump? and as new as your tank is may be part of the problem the skimmer isnt pulling much yet. but also how old is the skimmer? they do need a little break in time, and may also just need some adjusting.
 
This is what is to be expected. This is all part of the tank maturing process. I would def pick up a phosphate and mag test kit. They will be important if you plan on keeping sps.
Phosphate can stress all corals, specially sps. It will also prevent calcification of their skeletons.

What water level do you have the swc skimmer in. They are supposed to be in 6-9" of water, better performance in the 8"range. To get the best performance out of most skimmers, they need to be in a consistant water level. Not one that fluctuates.

Do get frustrated, this is all part of the process we have all gone through.
 
sounds like new tank cycle to me also. How much Live rock do you have?? Is the SPS at the top directly under your light?? also need to slowly raise you DKh. Keep params stable and get rid of PO4. +1 to what everybody else has already said. This takes time and LOTS of patience. Do not try to rush it. Good luck!
 
lighting is from a 6x24w ATI PM raised about 8" off the surface of the water


I don't know anyone who can keep sps very well under 24" t5's. I tried myself using a 4x24" individual reflectors, ATI bulb's and couldn't even keep digi's very well at 12" below. I can only imagine if you try to keep higher light acro's under that light. If softies and lps are doing ok but your sps slowly are receding and dying i'd say lack of light. Your parameters seem fine to me. Could be a little bit of a new tank but i still think its lack of light. After i got a par meter i started to see the diff intensities of t5, mh and led, not to mention every other light in my house and the sun : ) Anyhow i found that the 24" t5's were very sad intensity wise. At 12" i was only showing a 70 par so if your light is 8" off the tank and your sps are 4" down you may only be pushing around 100 par, which isn't going to be sufficient imo for most sps.
 
You stated that your skimmer is not producing very well. Have you tried adjusting your skimmer so that it skims wet? Do you have a refugium? If so are you running some sort of Macro Algae such as Chaeto for nutrient export?
As stated above, stability is the most important aspect especially when it comes to keeping SPS.
It is skimming wet, it's just not very dark, I didn't clarify. I don't have room for a refugium haha. I am not running chaeto, I did for a while but it just kept shrinking so I gave it away.

if you have cyano then something isn't right be it P04, N03 or both. Try microbactor it's really good stuff it'll kick the cyano by the end of the initial dosing period. also with the smaller tanks small differences in your params could be a huge deal. plus your tank is still super new bro give it time. your tank is going through the newbie stage your just barely out of cycling and it's pretty heavily stocked, thats why it sounds like a nutrient problem nothing a phosphate sponge and a couple of water changes won't fix. NO MORE FISH until you give your tank some time to mature 4 months in this hobby is no where near enough time.
I do have a thing of MB7, maybe I'll start dosing that again; the first time I did, I got these long stringy bacterial filaments so I stopped. I hadn't thought about the PO4 from the fish poop, that's a good point.

one more thing to add though.. if PO4 is a issue you might want to drop that slowly.. A P04 sponge might suck all that out kinda fast making some grumpy SPS even grumpier.. IMO..
I'll keep that in mind.

You guy's don't think his tank is just going through a normal new tank cycle, and that he might just be getting his water quality stable and consistent? also check you TDS levels on you RODI filter you might need to change the filters out on you unit, your po4 is always a big deal you might want to add a GFO and carbon reactor, and test you water before you add it to your tank salt is some time inconsistant. Make sure you get that alk up to about 9 and check your mag. One last thing always rember how your coral looked as it was dieing because that can give you a lot of info on things. It all just takes time dont rush!!!!!! Good luck!
I have an inline Hanna TDS meter, it's still spitting out 0. I'll be testing my fresh salt batches more I guess. I know that it tests high in Ca, but maybe the Alk is off too...

It sounds like new tank cycle. It's only 4 months old, so it's about time for cyano to appear. Couple of things that might be important. What are you feeding your fish, and how often? Do you have a clean up crew? Did you order the live rock, buy it from an LFS, or get it from another reefer? Phosphates comes in different forms. There is the phosphate that is introduced through your water, and fish food. There is also the phosphates that can be trapped in rocks, and substrate. Cyano does a good job of pulling phosphates wherever it can get it. Does your sump have a small refugium, or is it just a sump? Possibly increasing your sump to a 20 high could help. This would give you more water volume, and allow for macro algae like chaeto to be added. This will compete with the cyano for phosphates/nitrates.
I feed formula one flake, hikari brine, and one other type of frozen. I feed once a day. My clean up crew is pretty weak, the wrasse has made sue of that, I'll probably get some more snails, he doesn't like them as much. I used Marco Rocks base rocks for most of the rock, with one piece of live rock to seed. I did soak them in RO for a week before adding them to the tank. I just have a sump, no fuge, not enough room in the sump and there's barely enough room in the stand to have the 10g so a 20H is probably out of the question.

+1 on the new tank cycle, just sounds like new tank cycle still, litte more info on the tank set up, what kind of substrate ( live or new), live rock ordered/bought lfs/ bought from fellow reefer, whats in your sump? and as new as your tank is may be part of the problem the skimmer isnt pulling much yet. but also how old is the skimmer? they do need a little break in time, and may also just need some adjusting.
Substrate was dry reef grade special that I washed out. Refer to above about LR. Skimmer is as old as the tank, it was pulling out nasty gunk, but now not so much, I dunno what changed.

What water level do you have the swc skimmer in. They are supposed to be in 6-9" of water, better performance in the 8"range. To get the best performance out of most skimmers, they need to be in a consistant water level. Not one that fluctuates.

Do get frustrated, this is all part of the process we have all gone through.
It's in 8.5" of water; it's skimmed dark before, but recently it just hasn't been dark at all. It's in a dedicated skimmer section that doesn't fluctuate. I'm also using a Tunze ATO in the return section, so it doesn't fluctuate much at all.

sounds like new tank cycle to me also. How much Live rock do you have?? Is the SPS at the top directly under your light?? also need to slowly raise you DKh. Keep params stable and get rid of PO4. +1 to what everybody else has already said. This takes time and LOTS of patience. Do not try to rush it. Good luck!
I've got about 3lbs of coraline covered, true LR. I have at least 25lbs of base rock though. I did this because I really, really hate aiptasia and this LR came from my old, berghia nudibranch cleaned tank, so I trusted it.

I don't know anyone who can keep sps very well under 24" t5's. I tried myself using a 4x24" individual reflectors, ATI bulb's and couldn't even keep digi's very well at 12" below. I can only imagine if you try to keep higher light acro's under that light. If softies and lps are doing ok but your sps slowly are receding and dying i'd say lack of light. Your parameters seem fine to me. Could be a little bit of a new tank but i still think its lack of light. After i got a par meter i started to see the diff intensities of t5, mh and led, not to mention every other light in my house and the sun : ) Anyhow i found that the 24" t5's were very sad intensity wise. At 12" i was only showing a 70 par so if your light is 8" off the tank and your sps are 4" down you may only be pushing around 100 par, which isn't going to be sufficient imo for most sps.
Really? I had a friend of mine come over with his PAR meter and map out my tank when I first set it up. We tested from 500 at the highest rock all the way down to 150 in the back sand bed. What kind of light were you using? I'd have to disagree that it's a lack of light since I've had to raise it to try and keep it from bleaching my Maxi Mini anemones.
 
I thought PO4 was one of the fine tuning things; that it was more for coloration than anything. I only use RO/DI water so I don't know where they'd be leaching from, but it is a possibility. Unfortunately nobody around here has a Hanna Checker or anything equivalent and I just won't have the spare cash until next semester.
lets not forget that too high of phosphates can inhibit calcification....so yea i'd have to say that phosphate level is pretty important.
 

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