Got a "complete setup" from FB market...

[chillout-reefer-dave]

ReeferDave , first off, Welcome to R2R. Please post a full shot including the stand of your Tank. From what I can see your Stand looks a little scary. Also, you should research your FW System. Do you have DI Resin in the system? It is the final stage in a RODI System. You stocking list will be a problem, and the Lawnmower Blenny needs Algae to survive. Also, I hate to say this, but that Tank is nowhere near a year old and may not even be cycled. An inexpensive Hydrometer will work for now.

Yes ,as stated , I know water chemistry. I know what RODI stands for...I took organic chem in college. Can you explain what about the stocking list is a problem other than the Blenny needing alage? What kind of algae? Doesn't algae grow naturally in all aquariums? I will post pics tonight. My stand is cinder blocks and 2x6 on concrete slab. Pretty sure it can hold 10,000lbs. How do you know the tank isn't cycled just by looking at it with zero parameters or historical data of any kind?

 

[chillout-reefer-dave]

I would make a separate thread detailing what was included with your tank and the questions you have about the tank. You will get more responses vs this thread here ,as this thread will probably get bombarded with more "welcome to R2R" style responses! Try not to let the responses get to you. We are all just passionate about the hobby and want everyone to strive to have the best reef tanks possible!

Thank you Sir ! I will do the seperate post. I have posted on forums maybe 5 times in my life haha

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Also just to answer a couple of the questions

I used a cheap $10 refractometer from amazon, make sure you calibrate it using calibration solution.
Niger trigger will 100% outgrow that tank, I would rehome that fish if I were you.
77* is fine, some people run it hotter some colder, the average is 78
Choclate chip starfish in your tank is not reef safe, they are known for munching on corals.
I will be happy to answer more of your questions later!

 

[rtparty]

Can you explain why? Why are you telling me I won't like 55 G tank, plenty of people like 55's guy. Why do I need a plan? FX4 and tank alone cost 400? How is that a rip off?

You won’t find anyone who’s been in the saltwater hobby for more than a few months who likes the size of a 55. They are super cheap for a reason and in this hobby can’t even be given away. The 12” front to back is extremely limiting with rock work. This isn’t freshwater.

A used canister filter is worth 25-30% of new.

The tank is not big enough for the fish in it. They will quickly out grow the tank and the canister filter will not be enough to keep up with their bioload.

Chocolate starfish are not reef safe.

You need a plan.

 

[kevgib67]

Welcome, glad you are here!

 

[EnterName]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!
I can't answer all of your questions right now, but here are my 2 cents on a few of them:

5. It is possible to run a reef tank without skimmer, but for many people it is not about the nutrient levels, but the gas exchange. You will have to make sure that you have enough oxygen in your tank, especially early during bacteria blooms which sometimes happen within the first year and could suffocate your fish. It is also very beneficial to maintain pH levels.

6. You can pump 30 - 40 times the tank volume per hour through flow pumps to provide enough current. If you have a dedicated wave maker you may want to place it at the top where it can move the water surface to make waves.

7. Corals might look like plants but they move or "fluff up" and you will see that there is "life" in it. They will be closed at first as they need time to acclimate but will open if water parameters are fine. Note that if you just set up the tank it will go through "the ugly phase" which means you will experience diatom growth and green hair algae within the first 6 months. This is totally normal and nothing you need to act upon, but it can make keeping corals difficult during that time.

14. I recommend hydrometers (the tropic marin one is very popular on R2R) as they give repeatable results, while refractometers tend to be a bit more unstable and need proper calibration. You will still need to learn to use it properly though.

 

[chillout-reefer-dave]

Regarding the Blue Hippo/Niger Trigger, both recommended 180 gallon minimum :) 55 gallon won't cut it.
agreed with above, we're not trying to dissuade you, we want the best for the livestock and your reefing experience!

Thank you. It's obvious the guy I got it from had more money than sense. Go figure. I'm not opposed to selling anything off or changing/upgrading anything. I know lighting from my hydroponics days, PAR pmol etc , think 1000w double ended HPS. I will probably end up with some china leds for coral down the road. I'm taking stock of what I've done and how to proceed. I'm a fast learner and appreciate communities like what you've built.

 

[TheNative192]

Thank you Sir ! I will do the seperate post. I have posted on forums maybe 5 times in my life haha

Welcome!

Saltwater is definitely a bit different from freshwater, but it’s very learnable—especially with a strong community like this one. I made the same transition after years in freshwater, and I ended up enjoying saltwater even more. Make sure to always top off with RODI water as well as when the system evaporates the salt stays to avoid a bad salinity swing!

As for the fish, I don’t think you need to get rid of all the fish immediately. That said, there are a few I would strongly consider moving, trading, or surrendering to a local fish store sooner rather than later for your benefit, and I’ll explain why below.

Disease & Nutrient Load​

All saltwater fish carry parasites and disease naturally. Stress is what turns those into real problems. Overcrowding, limited swimming room, and unstable water quality all increase that risk & actually will cause the diseases to spread to all the fish crashing the system so that is a major concern.

Large fish in a small system also mean heavy nutrient production. Without frequent, fairly large water changes (or strong filtration), nitrates and phosphates rise quickly—leading to fish & coral stress, algae, dinos, or cyanobacteria, all of which can negatively affect both fish and corals. Many of those fish are less than a year old as well and will reach full size in a year or two max so I think he may have not been 100% honest when selling you the tank as for how long he had it or how long he has had those fish.

Blue Hippo Tang​

The biggest concern is the Blue Hippo Tang. Unfortunately, they stress very easily and are extremely prone to ich. While freshwater fish tank size recommendations are often exaggerated, saltwater fish recommendations especially around tangs are one of the exceptions. Most reputable sources list 180 gallons for hippos, and even if that’s generous, a 55-gallon tank is still far too small & the reason is not that the fish will die but that before that it will get stressed likely get Ich & spread it to every living fish in the system. (More Below)

When a tang becomes stressed—due to limited swimming space or lack of algae—it often develops ich, which can spread rapidly and wipe out an entire tank. They also require constant grazing (algae/nori), grow very quickly, and struggle without a well-established system. A smaller tang like a Tomini is usually considered a 75-gallon minimum, and even then it’s best added to a well-established tank (typically over a year old).

Niger Trigger​

The Niger Trigger is another fish I’d strongly recommend rehoming. These fish really belong in 180+ gallon systems and can become aggressive in smaller tanks. In confined space they can easily stress or outright kill tankmates. They’re also not coral-safe, so if your long-term goal includes corals, this fish will be an issue. Amazing fish—but not a good fit for this size system.

Blue-Spotted Puffer​

The blue-spotted puffer may eat coral—some behave, others don’t. If your goal is a coral-heavy reef, this is something to be aware of. If it starts picking at coral, removal is the only solution. That said, it could work very well in a FOWLR (fish-only with live rock) setup.

Chocolate Chip Starfish​

Chocolate chip starfish will 100% eat coral eventually. If you care about keeping coral long-term, I would remove it. If not, it can stay. If you want a starfish that’s reef-safe, some bristle stars can be a better alternative—but a starfish isn’t required at all.

Overall System Thoughts​

The remaining fish should be fine. I’ll be honest though—the system looks very young and likely under a year old. Saltwater tanks rely heavily on live rock and sand for biological filtration; far more than freshwater systems. Most modern reefs use sumps or AIO setups to provide high water movement and oxygenation. Hang-on-back and canister filters aren’t commonly used in reef systems because they’re not ideal for nutrient control long-term & beneficial bacteria does not live as much in the filter but more on the live rock & sand in the tank. Looking at the tank you probably need a good amount more of live rock in the system.

If you choose to keep all current fish, a protein skimmer will likely be necessary, or you’ll need a very aggressive water-change schedule. You can also get different fish to replace the old fish as well & it may still not require a skimmer. I am 27 and definitely do not have the same financial abilities as some on here so I understand the struggle of balling on a budget! The key is to not lose hope & it would not shock me if some stores would trade the fish you have in for credit or even other fish more suited for that size of tank!

For salinity measurement, I recommend either:

• A Tropic Marin hydrometer (very reliable), or
• A refractometer (Amazon is fine—just make sure it’s calibrated properly)

You’re off to a good start, and with a few adjustments now, you’ll save yourself a lot of frustration later.

 

[bob88884]

Welcome to the hobby and forum!

Sorry to say, that’s a ripoff at $400. The livestock is completely wrong and setup for total disaster. Not all is lost though. You have a decent foundation to work with (you will hate the shallow front to back of a 55) but now is the time to get the knowledge and research done.

I would find a local store or hobbyist to take most of the fish since they won’t be okay long term anyway. That will give you some time to figure it out and make a plan going forward

The bright spot is that you found this forum. You can get a lot of good advice here.

 

[JonoH]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!
Looks like most have answered your questions, its a learning curve from Freshwater, but rewarding when it all comes together.

 

[W31Olds]

Yes ,as stated , I know water chemistry. I know what RODI stands for...I took organic chem in college. Can you explain what about the stocking list is a problem other than the Blenny needing alage? What kind of algae? Doesn't algae grow naturally in all aquariums? I will post pics tonight. My stand is cinder blocks and 2x6 on concrete slab. Pretty sure it can hold 10,000lbs. How do you know the tank isn't cycled just by looking at it with zero parameters or historical data of any kind?

ReeferDave, Just asking about your RODI system because most under sink systems are used for Drinking Water and don't include the DI Resin Cannister. I would not rush to change your stocking list as you fish a small but will grow quickly. My Hippo was the same size as yours and now is a beast close to 6" long. I have a lawnmower Blenny and they need Algae and scrape rocks to get it and the proper nutrients. I don't think your stand cannot carry the weight but would be concerned about lateral movement. I tank that's 1 year old will have Algae all over the glass, pipes rockwork sand, etc. I would purchase an Ammonia Test Kit (I use a Red Sea). They are not very expensive and with your move and the Bioload you could have Ammonia present which is a real problem. Finally, many of us do spend a lot on our Tanks and have the resources to do so, but I for one still look for the best value and want to see all New and Established Reefers succeed.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

Welcome! I wish you consulted with us before you bought a setup. I would have steered you away from a sumpless tank, for starters, let alone the fish that will eventually need a much larger and species dependent tank.

Those fish need at least a 6 foot long tank that is also tall and wide. The guy who sold you the tank doesnt know anything about proper fishkeeping. The only tang you can keep in a 55 is MAYBE a tomini, but that is still small for one. Its a good footprint for many wrasses, clowns, gobies, blennies but not for the big fish like a triger or tang.

The sand has to go UNLESS the sand bed was kept in tact when you brought it inside. I dont like that the tank doesn't have an overflow and sump.
The live rock is nice but I dont see coralline on it, which tells me it may not be well-aged. There also isnt much of it.

I hate to sound like a downer, but you can do better. The $400 didn't kill you because the livestock alone could be worth close to that if you research prices. I say sell what you have, and look into a tank that is drilled and has a sump, OR keep most of the fish except the ones you cant keep and sell the others. To get started in reefing will require a grand or more to start properly, even used stuff- unless you are very diligent and find the deal of a lifetime. Lighting alone on a reef on a 4 foot long tank would cost 400 by itself, used. For higher light, over a grand.
Do you have test kits?


I have a 69g setup in my garage that I can sell you for a good price if you are in the tristate area (NJ). This would NOT include fish, sand or coral, but I will include a return pump and all plumbing. Actually I have 2 bags of special grade sand that I am not using.

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

Thank you. It's obvious the guy I got it from had more money than sense. Go figure. I'm not opposed to selling anything off or changing/upgrading anything. I know lighting from my hydroponics days, PAR pmol etc , think 1000w double ended HPS. I will probably end up with some china leds for coral down the road. I'm taking stock of what I've done and how to proceed. I'm a fast learner and appreciate communities like what you've built.

HPS will not look nice on a reef tank, lol. But, metal halide sure grows coral well. The hobby is getting away from the high heat generating lighting, though there are people that love MH.

Sell the tank and get the larger footprint that is "reef ready." I cant stress that enough. It will look cleaner with less crap on your display. Then, do the homework on fish/coral and what equipment you need to support them. As RTParty put it, have a plan. First question to ask yourself is, "What corals/fish do I ultimately want to keep?" Then, you build your tank around that first question. You undoubtedly are intelligent and you have freshwater experience. I think you just didnt do the research up front. I was there once.

 

[chillout-reefer-dave]

"Data or it doesn't count." Applies to all hobbies and is my main philosophy in life. You can't just say "I don't like the way that looks" without saying why and why your why is correct. Anything else is amateurish , imprecise, and uninteresting to me. Thank you guys for so much awesome info! Was was fully aware there's a lot wrong here. The idea is to unwrap the equation and motivate myself to finally get salty. Now that I have stuff I have no choice but to research instead of "I'll get around to that when I have extra cash". I am by no means poor. I simply enjoy science and finance. If I like this I'll keep going and spend 1000s. If not I'll sell it or give it away and chalk it off as a learning experience. Thank you guys and gals again!

 

[CoralB]

Welcome !!

 

[Peace River]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!!!

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

"Data or it doesn't count." Applies to all hobbies and is my main philosophy in life. You can't just say "I don't like the way that looks" without saying why and why your why is correct. Anything else is amateurish , imprecise, and uninteresting to me. Thank you guys for so much awesome info! Was was fully aware there's a lot wrong here. The idea is to unwrap the equation and motivate myself to finally get salty. Now that I have stuff I have no choice but to research instead of "I'll get around to that when I have extra cash". I am by no means poor. I simply enjoy science and finance. If I like this I'll keep going and spend 1000s. If not I'll sell it or give it away and chalk it off as a learning experience. Thank you guys and gals again!

all due respect, this hobby is based around “liking or not liking the way it looks” which of course is subjective, but the feedback you are receiving is invaluable in making good decisions towards success. When you see wires and heaters and hang on back skimmers hanging off a display tank, you will realize that there is a reason that people utilize sumps. They are also not just for aesthetic purposes. They add turbulence for example, which in turn further oxygenates a tank, especially if you don’t have a skimmer. They house equipment that helps your aquarium address issues. You wanted data and people are giving you great advice. We have people here that have had tanks longer than i’ve been alive, and i’m a middle aged man now.

If you are a data driven person, researching thoroughly before buying is wise. That means putting hours of reading in here before you spend thousands.

Again, your top priority should be to come up with a plan or a goal. “I want a mixed reef.” That decision will determine everything from having the correct pumps, knowing your par values, having the correct sand grain size, proper lighting, and the correct test kits, among many other things.

You WILL stumble in this hobby. It is not for the inpatient type of person. The payoff is worth it imo.

 

[FrugalReeferJon]

 

[chillout-reefer-dave]

all due respect, this hobby is based around “liking or not liking the way it looks” which of course is subjective, but the feedback you are receiving is invaluable in making good decisions towards success. When you see wires and heaters and hang on back skimmers hanging off a display tank, you will realize that there is a reason that people utilize sumps. They are also not just for aesthetic purposes. They add turbulence for example, which in turn further oxygenates a tank, especially if you don’t have a skimmer. They house equipment that helps your aquarium address issues. You wanted data and people are giving you great advice. We have people here that have had tanks longer than i’ve been alive, and i’m a middle aged man now.

If you are a data driven person, researching thoroughly before buying is wise. That means putting hours of reading in here before you spend thousands.

Again, your top priority should be to come up with a plan or a goal. “I want a mixed reef.” That decision will determine everything from having the correct pumps, knowing your par values, having the correct sand grain size, proper lighting, and the correct test kits, among many other things.

You WILL stumble in this hobby. It is not for the inpatient type of person. The payoff is worth it imo.

"They add turbulence for example, which in turn further oxygenates a tank, especially if you don’t have a skimmer. They house equipment that helps your aquarium address issues."

Questions

1. Why is a sumps turbulence better than say a wave maker or powerhead?
2. What issues specifically and why?
3. How do you know when your water is oxygen saturated enough or fully?

 

[jsmkmavity]