Has anyone had issues with heaters inside overflow box?

[CincyReefer07]

I have an 8 foot long 310 gallon aquarium with an IceCap 48XL sump. I bought two eheim jager heaters for it (300w & 250w). I’m placing the 250w either in the skimmer or the refugium section of the sump and was thinking to put the 300w inside the overflow box to keep a clean look inside of the tank. Has anyone had issues with doing this? I don’t want to risk anything and want to do it right but also want the tank as clean and minimalist looking (as far as equipment goes) as possible.

I do have a hydros aquarium controller, but also wondering if I should buy an inkbird or another form of monitoring and safety for the heaters as well.

 

[Montiman]

The only issues I have had are when the overflow box can run dry like with a Herbie or bean animal set up. If you are running Maggie Mufflers only then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[CincyReefer07]

The only issues I have had are when the overflow box can run dry like with a Herbie or bean animal set up. If you are running Maggie Mufflers only then it shouldn't be an issue.

Yeah I’m only running the dual Maggie mufflers. This is my first time using a sump so I’m pretty new to all of the plumbing and overflow boxes, etc. Always used HOB which obviously it had to go in the tank then, but wanted to get away from all of that clutter look of a hob setup so thought maybe putting the heater in overflow would work and one in the sump.

 

[DaddyFish]

I run two heaters in my 215-gal peninsula overflow box. My strong suggestion is place your Hydros temperature probe inside the overflow box with the heater(s).

If you position the heaters all the way down in the overflow box they should never be exposed to air. Having the temp probe inside the overflow keeps them from overheating when pumps are turned off, during water changes etc. when the surrounding tank water level drops below the weir slots.

IMO heaters in the overflow is a much better solution than heaters in the sump, especially for emergency power outage situations.

On a side note... Good luck with the Maggie Mufflers. I could never get mine to run silent. I eventually opted to go Herbie with a low-profile strainer on the primary drain (using a gate valve inline) and left the E-drain open. That way you definitely hear it whenever anything goes wrong with the primary and water flows over the E-drain.

 

[CincyReefer07]

I run two heaters in my 215-gal peninsula overflow box. My strong suggestion is place your Hydros temperature probe inside the overflow box with the heater(s).

If you position the heaters all the way down in the overflow box they should never be exposed to air. Having the temp probe inside the overflow keeps them from overheating when pumps are turned off, during water changes etc. when the surrounding tank water level drops below the weir slots.

IMO heaters in the overflow is a much better solution than heaters in the sump, especially for emergency power outage situations.

On a side note... Good luck with the Maggie Mufflers. I could never get mine to run silent. I eventually opted to go Herbie with a low-profile strainer on the primary drain (using a gate valve inline) and left the E-drain open. That way you definitely hear it whenever anything goes wrong with the primary and water flows over the E-drain.

Appreciate the input! I didn’t think of putting the probe in the overflow box, I just figured in the sump since it seemed that’s where majority of people put them.
And yeah as far as the Maggie mufflers go, I had one LFS that recommended the herbie method and another that recommended the Maggie mufflers, me being so new to sumps and plumbing, the Maggie muffler seemed the simplest route to go. I have (2) gate valves I planned on putting into both drain lines just to have

 

[Jubei2006]

Never put a heater in any area that has the chance to run dry under any circumstance! Because it will run dry, and if left WILL start a fire quickly!

 

[DaddyFish]

Never put a heater in any area that has the chance to run dry under any circumstance! Because it will run dry, and if left WILL start a fire quickly!

Any sump has at least as much chance of running dry as an internal overflow box. The heater has to go somewhere. Inside an INTERNAL overflow with a Herbie drain setup is as safe as any place.

 

[CincyReefer07]

Never put a heater in any area that has the chance to run dry under any circumstance! Because it will run dry, and if left WILL start a fire quickly!

Wouldn’t the water in the overflow box only drain to the height of the top of my drain pipes?

 

[DaddyFish]

@CincyReefer07 - If you use a heater with it's own thermostat control, set the heater to the highest cutoff temperature, say 82F. Then set your Hydros to the desired range for the tank, say 77.5-78.0 F. The Hydros will do the switching On/Off to control water temperature. But just in case things do go haywire, the heater's integrated thermostat should shut it off at 82F.
With that setup I see no reason to spend $$$ on an InkBird. BTW, I have multiple tanks and have used many combinations of heater setups, including InkBird controllers and Hydros. I'm very happy with the setup described above.

 

[DaddyFish]

Wouldn’t the water in the overflow box only drain to the height of the top of my drain pipes?

Exactly

 

[DaddyFish]

@CincyReefer07 - Hydros setups for the heater(s). You could include a Maximum On Time value if you want to limit how long the heater(s) can be active in one cycle.

 

[Jubei2006]

Wouldn’t the water in the overflow box only drain to the height of the top of my drain pipes?

Make sure the thermometer stays submerged to it's safe zone. Also what volume of water does the overflow drain too and what size heater? Put a largeish heater in a overflow box only holding 5 to 10 gallons. Lets say your tank stops and the temp probe is in a different section of the tank. It clicks on because the water the probe is in starts to cool down because it isnt being heated any longer. That heater sticks on. They get hot. They can melt plastic, boil water, etc. Just take caution, trying to be helpful. Had a plastic tote catch fire, luckily while I was home. Had a water pump shift and emptied a lot of the tub. The probe came out of the water, the heater stuck on, and because PART of it was uncovered, it got hot enough to ignite the bin.

 

[brahm]

I would never run heaters without some sort of external controller, every major tank crash I've had in the past 20 years or so of reefing has been related to heaters failing. I also wouldn't run them in the overflow in case it runs dry (has a small leak or something when shut off). ---but that is a personal preference. Your return pump will never drain your sump 100%.

The sump is there to serve as a utility area for my display tanks, I don't care how it looks, only that it functions correctly. it's hidden under my stand for a reason. If there was a reason other than cosmetic to locate the heaters else were sure, but I'd be leery in getting caught up with pictures of peoples sump and equipment on forums vs making sure your system is running as it should in a manner that keeps it as stable and easy to maintain as possible.

 

[CincyReefer07]

@CincyReefer07 - Hydros setups for the heater(s). You could include a Maximum On Time value if you want to limit how long the heater(s) can be active in one cycle.

I’m new to all of this besides basic hob setups which is all I’ve had (29 & 75g) the last 8 years, and have never had an aquarium controller until now either. So with the hydros, would I be able to set up (2) temp probes to be able to monitor maybe one of the heaters in the overflow box and the other one if I choose to have it in the sump? One probe in overflow box with one heater and the other in the sump?

 

[DaddyFish]

I would never run heaters without some sort of external controller, every major tank crash I've had in the past 20 years or so of reefing has been related to heaters failing. I also wouldn't run them in the overflow in case it runs dry (has a small leak or something when shut off). ---but that is a personal preference. Your return pump will never drain your sump 100%.

The sump is there to serve as a utility area for my display tanks, I don't care how it looks, only that it functions correctly. it's hidden under my stand for a reason. If there was a reason other than cosmetic to locate the heaters else were sure, but I'd be leery in getting caught up with pictures of peoples sump and equipment on forums vs making sure your system is running as it should in a manner that keeps it as stable and easy to maintain as possible.

All good points. My logic for locating the heater(s) in the overflow box is based on three key factors.

1. Tank is peninsula glass and overflow is INTERNAL, not external. Therefore it has one 1/2" glass wall with three acrylic sides that are surrounded by water. My sump is acrylic and heater(s) must be placed in close proximity to much thinner acrylic walls. If something does cause my overflow box to drain out below the Herbie line, it would overflow the sump and the Hydros system leak detector surrounding the entire sump perimeter would shut everything down.

2. I use titanium heater(s) with integrated thermostats, integrated overheat shutoff circuitry and integrated low water level shutoff sensors. And I have intentionally attempted to "fry" one just to make sure it all works as advertised.

3. I also use a tank controller system (Hydros) with a temp sensor in the heater chamber (overflow box) that controls the AC power to the heater(s) as redundancy. The heater(s) thermostats and safety systems only come into play if something goes wrong with the Hydros controls.

One can go on and on with redundancy, failsafes and backups. But in the end it's not the foreseeable failure that will get you, it's the one you don't think about. My heater(s) are in the internal overflow box with reasonable failure redundancies.

 

[DaddyFish]

I’m new to all of this besides basic hob setups which is all I’ve had (29 & 75g) the last 8 years, and have never had an aquarium controller until now either. So with the hydros, would I be able to set up (2) temp probes to be able to monitor maybe one of the heaters in the overflow box and the other one if I choose to have it in the sump? One probe in overflow box with one heater and the other in the sump?

I actually started out doing exactly what you describe, but I eventually decided it's too complex and just more equipment than is needed. Then again, I also run a lot of UV, therefore I don't need much heat in that tank. One 500w or two 300w heaters is more than enough for ambient room temps above 60F in my 215 setup. The gas logs in that room are set to come on at 60F with or without power, and I have a generator for the tank.

 

[Duncan62]

I run two heaters in my 215-gal peninsula overflow box. My strong suggestion is place your Hydros temperature probe inside the overflow box with the heater(s).

If you position the heaters all the way down in the overflow box they should never be exposed to air. Having the temp probe inside the overflow keeps them from overheating when pumps are turned off, during water changes etc. when the surrounding tank water level drops below the weir slots.

IMO heaters in the overflow is a much better solution than heaters in the sump, especially for emergency power outage situations.

On a side note... Good luck with the Maggie Mufflers. I could never get mine to run silent. I eventually opted to go Herbie with a low-profile strainer on the primary drain (using a gate valve inline) and left the E-drain open. That way you definitely hear it whenever anything goes wrong with the primary and water flows over the E-drain.

The overflow stays at a constant level despite flow or lack of In My diy stuff. I've had heaters in my overflow and it works for me.