Have I lost the cycle?

[mmorrison55]

In my 25 gallon nano tank that I use for observational QT, I lost the only Fish I had in the tank. This was about two weeks ago.
I also have a few hermit crabs and some snails as a cuc. I have a few corals( 4 small frags). And live sand and 5 lbs or so of TBS live rock that still looks good.

As I said the fish died about two weeks ago. I removed him and did ~30% water change and cleaned my glass. Fast forward to last night… I scraped the glass and did another 30%. Water change.

Checked Parameters this morning and see the following:

35 ppt salinity
0.0 nitrate
7ppb nitrite
.13 phosphate
And .19 ammonia

Note that I didnt test nitrite until I noticed 0 nitrate and high ammonia, then I added about 75ml of pns deep cycle and then thought I should test nitrite as well about a 1/2 hour later.

I am concerned the nitrifying bacteria of the tank is depleted and it may not be safe to add any fish in the current state?


Should I do another water change and this time add water from my main tank and possibly more nitrifying bacteria?

 

[BryanM]

5 pounds of TBS live rock, if nothing went wrong, should have you in far better shape than your post indicates.

Did something else happen? This isn't really adding up right in my mind yet.

Without a cause I think I'd just start a new cycle with some good bacteria, even though I do not believe you should need to be going down that road.

 

[Reef Jedi]

Is this a quarantine tank or are we talking about the display tank? Do you have live rock in the quarantine tank?

 

[mmorrison55]

5 pounds of TBS live rock, if nothing went wrong, should have you in far better shape than your post indicates.

Did something else happen? This isn't really adding up right in my mind yet.

Without a cause I think I'd just start a new cycle with some good bacteria, even though I do not believe you should need to be going down that road.

The tank has been running 3-4 months and looks good. I hadn’t lost a fish until the clown a few weeks ago. TBH I didn’t really test much except for salinity after the initial cycle. I just figured since I lost the last fish I put in it, that maybe I should be safe and test before adding anything new.

 

[mmorrison55]

Is this a quarantine tank or are we talking about the display tank? Do you have live rock in the quarantine tank?

It’s a 25 gallon nano that I use when I buy new fish. I add them to this tank to observe for a few weeks before adding them to the main display. It’s not medicated in any way

 

[mmorrison55]

Guys at my LFS said it’s possible my live rock has died and it could be the reason for what im seeing (high ammonia and no nitrites or nitrate). At this point with no fish present, I guess I just need to add more pns deep cycle and see if I can start the cycle back up and test my ammonia and nitrite/nitrate levels again in a few days.

Shame too. I saw a beautiful fairy wrasse today that I wanted to add to the tank.


Would copepods eat up all the good bacteria? I’ve got a ton of them in the tank since ive not had any established fish in a while.

 

[mmorrison55]

Readings Saturday

Salinity 35 ppt
Nitrate 0.0
Phosphate 0.13
Ammonia 0.19


I added pns deep cycle after readings above


Readings tonight (4 days later). Nothing added since deep cycle was added Saturday.

Salinity 37 ppt
Nitrate 0.0
Phosphate 0.07
Ammonia 0.21

Again, I only have 3 corals, a couple of hermit crabs, a few snails, and tons of copepods are visible on the glass.

No fish are in the tank since my clownfish died a few weeks ago.

Im kind of at a loss of what to do next. If the ammonia slide is from the copepods, how do I reduce their population other than add fish, and if I add fish will they survive the ammonia levels.

Or should I do a 100% water change using water from my 180 gallon main tank?

Or should I start over, drain the nano, rinse the tbs sand and live rocks, rinse the tank out, put the sand and live rock back and add new saltwater along with some Fritz turbo start or similar?

 

[BeanAnimal]

My advice is to stop pouring bottle bacteria in. I don’t know how often you do it or how much you pour in, but it is not likely helping and may be hurting by generating heterotrophic blooms.

The pods are not creating an ammonia spike.

What test kit are you using? Do you test the display with it also?

 

[mmorrison55]

It’s a Hannah checker. It’s been a month or so since I tested my main display for ammonia, but that’s because my nitrates and phosphates have always shown up when testing those monthly in the main display.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Can you answer the other questions?

Do youn check the display with it? If so what are the readings?

How often and how much bottled bacteria?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Can you please test the display using the same batch of reagent and procedure? Post the results here.

 

[mmorrison55]

Can you answer the other questions?

Do youn check the display with it? If so what are the readings?

How often and how much bottled bacteria?

sorry was updating my previous post when you responded.

As for the pns deep cycle, I added ~25 ml on Saturday after the initial testing and that has been it for recent memory. I may have added some months back when I set the tank up, uv don’t recall the exact date and how much.

Prior to my clownfish’s death, I would test nitrate and phosphates every 4-6 weeks or so or whenever I was planning to buy any new fish to make sure nothing was out of whack. I’ll be honest in that I typically did not test ammonia if the nitrates and phosphates were not abnormal.

 

[mmorrison55]

Can you please test the display using the same batch of reagent and procedure? Post the results here.

Yep. Will run a test and post. Take about 20-25 minutes

 

[BeanAnimal]

Also, it is highly unlikely that your rock has “died” — especially given that there are inverts living in the tank.

 

[mmorrison55]

Also, it is highly unlikely that your rock has “died” — especially given that there are inverts living in the tank.

I didn’t think so either as the rock still looks good, lots of life on it.

thought I read someplace that copepods can produce ammonia, and with nothing else in the tank, I was thinking that could be where the ammonia was coming from.

I also went back through my log, I can’t find where I ever tested ammonia on the nano in the several months. Last time I tested for it and logged it in my main display was back in late April, and it was 0.08.

By the way, I also have an api test kit. It shows 0 on my main display. Maybe a slight tinge towards the next level up.

My Hanna just reported 0.18, so I guess my reagent could be bad. Idk.

Going to check the nano now with the api to see if it’s also reporting 0

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ammonia is not the issue. So low oxygen, disease, etc,

 

[mmorrison55]

I will run another test in the am to compare. I feed pretty heavy throughout the day in the main display up until 6pm and would expect levels to be a bit higher when testing at night.

API color matched to zero in the nano tank as well.

So maybe I don’t have an ammonia issue, but still not sure what to do about 0 nitrates in the nano.

For reference, a hanna test on nitrate and phosphates in my main tank showed the following on two recent tests.

.12 p04 and 4.9 n03. On 10/22. I posted these number on another thread and it was suggested I may want to up the nitrates so I dosed some neonitro and tested again on 10/28 and reported .13 p04 and 15.0 n03.

So im fairly confident in the po4 and no3 numbers im getting from Hanna.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I didn’t think so either as the rock still looks good, lots of life on it.

thought I read someplace that copepods can produce ammonia, and with nothing else in the tank, I was thinking that could be where the ammonia was coming from.

I also went back through my log, I can’t find where I ever tested ammonia on the nano in the several months. Last time I tested for it and logged it in my main display was back in late April, and it was 0.08.

By the way, I also have an api test kit. It shows 0 on my main display. Maybe a slight tinge towards the next level up.

My Hanna just reported 0.18, so I guess my reagent could be bad. Idk.

Going to check the nano now with the api to see if it’s also reporting 0

Pods generally dont produce ammonia and API will almost always show zero.
I suggest taking a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels are at.
Rock if live rock likely fine unless exposed to copper.
Are you using Tap water for top off or mixing of salt?
What bottled bacteria are you using?

 

[mmorrison55]

Ammonia is not the issue. So low oxygen, disease, etc,

I can raise my ai Nero to be closer to the surface and try and get some surface agitation.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I wouldn’t worry about testing nitrates at all.