Heartbreak-Need help :(

[Sashaka]

Do you have a QT tank? If so, I would recommend trying Kanaplex. It is specifically made for bacterial infections. If you don't have a QT, you can also use as a dip; however, if you have a lot of animals to treat that can be a major pain.

This 75 gal is a sick tank. These fish went through 35 days of Copper Power at the start of treatment. The fish then went through 3 consecutive treatments of Furan2. I then did 10 days of MetroPlex, KanaPlex, and Focus on the good advise of Humblefish and others here because the fish were still itching. I did some freshwater dips and then 10 days of General Cure. I stopped medicating the tank and added carbon to the HOB filter a little over a week ago. Today I did another freshwater dip on all fish and added Meth.Blue to the dip.

With so much treatment going on, the tank developed a bacterial bloom two weeks ago. I've been doing heavy water changes...even more than before, wiping down the glass and changing out the filters every other day. I do anywhere from 40 to 90% water changes, but the cloudy water just won't clear up. These fish have been through the ringer...and so have I at this point. I'm about ready to give up on the hobby. I feel like everything I've done and the ton of money I've spent trying to cure these fish was for nothing. They are all still itching. My efforts seem only to extend their lives a short time. The fish are still dying. My PH is 8.2, salinity is kept low at 30 because of the lower oxygen levels in the tank right now. I have two sponge air filters in the tank, a double bio-wheel HOB filter, and a powerhead agitating the surface even more.

Thanks for answering the post. While I've already tried what you suggested, it's nice to know someone cares enough to try to help. I fell pretty alone here. I don't even have anyone in my general area who keepd saltwater fish, so most of my fish are purchased online.

 

[Sashaka]

Because of the wrasses, I would only dose @ 40mg/gal. But if any stop eating, transfer them to another QT and treat with chelated copper (e.g. Coppersafe) instead.

Thank you, Humblefish. I read a post recently about a blue hippo that made it through CP treatment. I'm hoping my wrasses will as well. I want to give these fish a few days to settle down from the stress of the freshwater/met.blue dip I gave them today. I want to make sure they are eating well before I start another treatment. Would you say adding 10mg/gal each day over 4 days would be a good way to get the sensitive fish used to the CP, or...would you recommend just adding 20mg/gal and waiting a week before adding the second 20mg/gal? Thanks for all your help Humble fish. It's nice to know someone besides me (only in the hobby a few years) is trying to help my babies. I really appreciate and value your advice.

 

[Humblefish]

Something you have to remember is ich, velvet, flukes, bacterial infections and all the other diseases commonly discussed probably only represent a fraction of what's really out there. Just like not every human disease is known to science. So, sometimes you will run up against something that is not easily curable or can be cured using the medications advised. And with bacterial infections, it is important to remember that antibiotics, in and of themselves, do not cure a fish. Antibiotics merely control the population growth of bacteria in a fish long enough for its immune system to eliminate them. A fish with an unhealthy immune system may never overcome an infection. So after running a fish through the mill with all these different meds, sometimes all you can do is place the fish in some clean/med-free water, feed probiotic or vitamin enriched foods, and hope for the best. ;Nurse

If you wanted to try CP, I think I would slowly ramp it up 10mg/gal each day over 4 days because of the wrasses.

 

[Sashaka]

Something you have to remember is ich, velvet, flukes, bacterial infections and all the other diseases commonly discussed probably only represent a fraction of what's really out there. Just like not every human disease is known to science. So, sometimes you will run up against something that is not easily curable or can be cured using the medications advised. And with bacterial infections, it is important to remember that antibiotics, in and of themselves, do not cure a fish. Antibiotics merely control the population growth of bacteria in a fish long enough for its immune system to eliminate them. A fish with an unhealthy immune system may never overcome an infection. So after running a fish through the mill with all these different meds, sometimes all you can do is place the fish in some clean/med-free water, feed probiotic or vitamin enriched foods, and hope for the best. ;Nurse

If you wanted to try CP, I think I would slowly ramp it up 10mg/gal each day over 4 days because of the wrasses.

Thanks Humblefish. I've wondered if I should continue to treat as it does not seem to be helping. I also read an article recently in my search for answers that made me consider that the itching could be a condition that was non pathogen related (http://www3.sympatico.ca/drosera1/fish/illness.htm). I worry that I have caused medication poisoning; then my yellow tang died. Now I worry if I don't continue to treat, I will continue to lose fish. It's so hard to know what is the best/safest course of action. Right now, I'm waiting and watching the tank, giving the fish a rest. If they are all eating but continue to flash, I'll start the CP as suggested at 10mg/gal doses each day. If this last effort does not stop the itching/flashing, I'm going to let nature and each fishes' immune systems do its best to kick this thing. I just may have run across a strain of pathogen that is resistant-as you mentioned. Still, I don't want to do more harm than good. Thanks for the support!

 

[Sashaka]

Update. I never started the second round of CP. I decided to stop medicating because most of the fish had stopped eating. I decided to let nature take its course. I believe the cures were doing more harm than good at this point. Within days, I lost my maroon clown, blue spot puffer, one of the cleaner wrasses, and the two female anthias. I believe the other cleaner wrasse, the male anthias, and the engineer goby are not long for this world either. Puff Daddy, the porcupine puffer, is the only fish still eating in the 75gal sick tank, so I'm hopeful that he might make it.

A silver lining... The majestic angel is still doing well. It was in a different sick tank. The lateral line erosion that it developed (I believe because it was in a dark tank for a few weeks in CopperPower and a month of CP treatment) seems to be healing well, and whatever illness it came in with seems to have been kicked by the CP treatment. Yeah! The fish is eating and growing. As I mentioned.... It's a silver lining in all this heartache.

Thank you, all, who gave me advice to try to save my fish. I've never come across something so resistant to medications before. I've always medicated at the first sign of sickness and my fish have done very well. This was different. I think Humblefish was right. I had multiple problems that came in on the fish that I purchased and one or more of them was a very resistant and aggressive pathogen. Right now, the pathogen does not seem to be in my other tanks anymore....time will tell. I'm hopeful the other fish tank inhabitants will continue to recover. This is what has survived this onslaught so far...

75 gal sick tank - almost all the fish in this tank are dead. Those that are left will likely die.

29 gal FOWLR housing bonded pair of small lightning maroon clowns, small sand perch, and algae blenny. This tank is also temporarily housing two small wrasses and a coral beauty meant for the 180 gal tank, which is almost ready to set up...but these fish need some grow out time. No losses were experienced in this tank.

29 gal sick tank turned quarantine tank housing the majestic angel, a snowflake clown, an unidentified goby, long nose hawkfish, and a stary eyed blenny (all small fish that need some grow out time before they can go into the 180 gal) No losses after losing the blue regal tang. The stary eyed blenny was added recently...after 30 days of CP treatment...because it was not playing nice with its tank mates in the 20 gal newbie sick tank.

20 gal newbie sick tank housing three small additions currently in CP treatment (midas blenny and two yellow watchmen). These fish replace midas blenny and yellow watchman that were lost)

40 gal sick tank housing 4 butterfly fish in 2nd week of CP treatment...their permanent home will be the 180 gal as well.

20 gal coral holding tank with aptatia problem...aptatia is the reason the 29 gal BioCube tank was broken down. The coral and critters from the BioCube went into this tank so I could get a handle on the aptatia problem. The new aptatia eating file fish is working out great! I smile from ear to ear every time I see it chowing down.

29 gal modified BioCube with sump and full spectrum lighting: only a few coral transferred back to this tank so far, a porcelain crab, pom pom crab, tiny shrimp, and some snails. This tank was completely broken down and set back up in June and it finished it's cycle around the end of August. I'm just now starting to stock it again. The snowflake clown belongs to this tank as does the two yellow watchman. After adding my last coral, I will leave the tank fallow for another 6 weeks...just to make sure... and then I'll add the fish back to this tank.

Thank you all again for being there through this difficult time.

 

[Humblefish]

@Sashaka Sorry to hear of all your losses. The only advice I can think to give is to "black molly test" the survivors once you think they are disease-free: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-black-mollies-vs-marine-fish-diseases.312166/

 

[Sashaka]

@Sashaka Sorry to hear of all your losses. The only advice I can think to give is to "black molly test" the survivors once you think they are disease-free: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-black-mollies-vs-marine-fish-diseases.312166/

Humblefish...this is a great suggestion! Thank you! I've been very concerned that if Puff Daddy and the engineer goby (the only two fish left now in the 75 gal as I lost the male anthias and the other cleaner wrasse this morning), make it, they might have built an immunity to the pathogen and still be harboring. I definitely don't want this pathogen to come in contact with my other fish once added to the 180 gal. I am going to buy some black mollies and try this before adding any fish to the 180 gal tank! My son keeps fresh water tanks, so he will take any mollies that I need to find homes for after the tests are over.

I can't thank you enough for suggesting this course of action. I've been wracking my brain to think of how to test and be sure any remaining fish in the 75 gal don't infect the rest of my stock.

Very, very, grateful,
Sashaka

 

[Sashaka]

I guess this will be my final update for this thread. Puff Daddy died. He stopped eating two days ago. He died yesterday. So far, all my other tanks seem to be free of whatever pathogen took the 75gal out. I'm not sure why I was able to cure the majestic angel of the pathogen. The Hippo tang and angel were the fish that started off all this heartache. The CopperPower didn't work on the angel, but the CP did. The angel is still eating, growing, and doing well. The lateral line is getting better as well. I will use the black molly test with the angel to make sure it did not build up an immunity and is not a carrier, but I think the worst is over. Time will tell.

Thank you all for suggesting the different ways to try to save the 75 gal tank stock. Puff Daddy was the hardest to lose. I appreciate the support everyone offered.
Sashaka

 

[Humblefish]