Help my firefish!!!

[taylormaximus]

Hey everyone, first post here! I just set up my saltwater tank, got it cycled and added my first and only fish, a firefish goby. My plan with the tank was to add the first fish directly and then set up a QT for all the fish afterwards (realizing that was a poor choice). I got the firefish and he got right to business at being sick. He's been in the tank for about 10 days now and has acted completely normal up until 2 days ago. The only definite symptom is that several times an hour he will flash along the substrate, and as of today he's started flashing along the rocks as well. To my knowledge that indicates either early ich or flukes, or some internal parasite, although there's no stringy white poop so far. He eats frozen mysis readily and nips at pellets but often spits them out.

I'm wondering if there's anyway to determine if it's flukes or ich? He looks completely healthy on the outside so far, no white specks or other abnormal signs so I think whatever it is is early. I'm setting up a small 6 gallon QT tank but at the moment I have to wait to get more saltwater mixed. I'm looking into doing a FW dip and then possibly hybrid tank transfer with peroxide dips. I'm in Canada so medications like prazi and general cure seem to be unavailable. Any suggestions for what to do for him? Medications or otherwise? Or ways to better diagnose? If I pull him into QT do I need to leave the tank without fish for a while?

Some tank facts
Size: 32 gallon
Salinity: 1.024
Temperature: 79°F
Alkalinity: 11 dkh
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0
Phosphate: ~0
Nitrate: ~25 ppm (been slowly creeping up)

Stock
Red firefish goby
1 blue legged hermit
1 trochus snail

Thanks for any help! I'm not giving up 2 weeks into the hobby, but man it seems unforgiving!

 

[Nemo&Friends]

How big are the pellet? fish often spit food back up it they are too big for them to swallow. You could try flake instead.
I do not know enough about disease to help you, hopefully someone else will be able to.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Can’t do much or make suggestions without pics under white lighting

 

[taylormaximus]

Okay... As an update even since posting a few minutes ago, he's starting to develop white specks around his body, so it's very likely ich.

Pretty tricky to get pictures but I caught a picture of a few just on one of his fins, but others are already developing on his body.

My questions still stand though... What would be best to do? I'm frantically getting the QT set up now, although I don't have any medication available right now, not sure if a freshwater dip would give any short term benefit though? I'm still looking at doing tank transfer right now. Help!!

 

[vtecintegra]

You are kind of screwed. What ever it's got is now probably in the tank. Pull the fish and quarantine while leaving the tank fishless for a couple of months, or pull every thing and start the tank over after sterilizing.

I do tank transfer on all fish. After about 7 days it will clear. The bigger problem is the contaminated tank.

 

[Stephen8169301]

What else is in your tank? Any inverts? Coral? If nothing you can just treat the tank can’t you?

mare you sure that’s not sand?

 

[taylormaximus]

You are kind of screwed. What ever it's got is now probably in the tank. Pull the fish and quarantine while leaving the tank fishless for a couple of months, or pull every thing and start the tank over after sterilizing.

I do tank transfer on all fish. After about 7 days it will clear. The bigger problem is the contaminated tank.

Hmm, is there a period of time where all the ich will be still on the fish before it starts dropping off? I'd really hate to tear everything down. Or maybe are there any other options to clear the ich out a contaminated tank? Especially with it so early on there might not be too much yet.

 

[taylormaximus]

What else is in your tank? Any inverts? Coral? If nothing you can just treat the tank can’t you?

mare you sure that’s not sand?

There's only a blue legged hermit and a trochus snail, no coral. The issue is theres no medication here I can treat with. I have a QT so I'm looking at starting tank transfer, but Im worried the ich will still be waiting for him when he's done.

 

[Stephen8169301]

There's only a blue legged hermit and a trochus snail, no coral. The issue is theres no medication here I can treat with. I have a QT so I'm looking at starting tank transfer, but Im worried the ich will still be waiting for him when he's done.

I’d just treat the tank you have if you have just make sure that’s not sand the do burrow under rock so it could of stuck to his fin you can’t add corals any way just get the snail and hermit out before you do

 

[Stephen8169301]

I’d just treat the tank you have if you have just make sure that’s not sand the do burrow under rock so it could of stuck to his fin you can’t add corals any way just get the snail and hermit out before you do

There’s no need to qt if that’s the only fish in there

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey everyone, first post here! I just set up my saltwater tank, got it cycled and added my first and only fish, a firefish goby. My plan with the tank was to add the first fish directly and then set up a QT for all the fish afterwards (realizing that was a poor choice). I got the firefish and he got right to business at being sick. He's been in the tank for about 10 days now and has acted completely normal up until 2 days ago. The only definite symptom is that several times an hour he will flash along the substrate, and as of today he's started flashing along the rocks as well. To my knowledge that indicates either early ich or flukes, or some internal parasite, although there's no stringy white poop so far. He eats frozen mysis readily and nips at pellets but often spits them out.

I'm wondering if there's anyway to determine if it's flukes or ich? He looks completely healthy on the outside so far, no white specks or other abnormal signs so I think whatever it is is early. I'm setting up a small 6 gallon QT tank but at the moment I have to wait to get more saltwater mixed. I'm looking into doing a FW dip and then possibly hybrid tank transfer with peroxide dips. I'm in Canada so medications like prazi and general cure seem to be unavailable. Any suggestions for what to do for him? Medications or otherwise? Or ways to better diagnose? If I pull him into QT do I need to leave the tank without fish for a while?

Some tank facts
Size: 32 gallon
Salinity: 1.024
Temperature: 79°F
Alkalinity: 11 dkh
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0
Phosphate: ~0
Nitrate: ~25 ppm (been slowly creeping up)

Stock
Red firefish goby
1 blue legged hermit
1 trochus snail

Thanks for any help! I'm not giving up 2 weeks into the hobby, but man it seems unforgiving!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Your firefish could have ich and flukes at the same time. The flashing is more a sign of flukes and the white spots on the fin could well be ich. Tank transfer isn't a good choice - it doesn't help with egg laying flukes, and even with ich, you need a clean tank to move the fish into while your main display lays fallow for 60 days.

I think you should opt for hyposalinity, since you don't have access to proper medications. Here is a post about that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[taylormaximus]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Your firefish could have ich and flukes at the same time. The flashing is more a sign of flukes and the white spots on the fin could well be ich. Tank transfer isn't a good choice - it doesn't help with egg laying flukes, and even with ich, you need a clean tank to move the fish into while your main display lays fallow for 60 days.

I think you should opt for hyposalinity, since you don't have access to proper medications. Here is a post about that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2021 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Hi Jay, thanks for the suggestions. I was wondering if you feel hypo would result in a more thorough cure than TTM when the fish is already displaying symptoms of ich? I read that post and it sounds like something I could easily do, correct me if I'm wrong, but since I have no corals or other fish, couldn't I just move my inverts to a QT tank instead and then do hypo right in the display tank?

And if I can, I had a few other questions about hypo if you don't mind.

My other big concern is getting the ich out of my display tank so it can't affect future fish. Would running hypo for 35 days in the display with the infected firefish also destroy any ich still in the water column? Or would there still be a risk of it coming back?

Would there be any benefit to doing a freshwater dip of the fish or peroxide dip before beginning hypo just to take the edge off some symptoms?

Would doing hypo in the display destroy the biofilter? And if so what could be done to control ammonia buildup? Would dosing prime or doing heavier water changes have an impact?

Are there any other medications you can use in conjuction with hypo to speed up the healing process for ich and potentially flukes?

Thanks so much for the help, if I understand all this correctly this could work really well and save massive headache!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay, thanks for the suggestions. I was wondering if you feel hypo would result in a more thorough cure than TTM when the fish is already displaying symptoms of ich? I read that post and it sounds like something I could easily do, correct me if I'm wrong, but since I have no corals or other fish, couldn't I just move my inverts to a QT tank instead and then do hypo right in the display tank?

And if I can, I had a few other questions about hypo if you don't mind.

My other big concern is getting the ich out of my display tank so it can't affect future fish. Would running hypo for 35 days in the display with the infected firefish also destroy any ich still in the water column? Or would there still be a risk of it coming back?

Would there be any benefit to doing a freshwater dip of the fish or peroxide dip before beginning hypo just to take the edge off some symptoms?

Would doing hypo in the display destroy the biofilter? And if so what could be done to control ammonia buildup? Would dosing prime or doing heavier water changes have an impact?

Are there any other medications you can use in conjuction with hypo to speed up the healing process for ich and potentially flukes?

Thanks so much for the help, if I understand all this correctly this could work really well and save massive headache!

Yes - full hypo in your DT is just as effective at removing ich and flukes as a fallow period does.
Don’t mix other drugs with hypo - that can add to the stress.
Hypo won’t harm a well established bio filter, but you may see an ammonia spike in newer tanks, so test for it during the first week of hypo.
No - don’t dip prior to hypo, it just adds stress with dubious benefit.
Jay

 

[taylormaximus]

Yes - full hypo in your DT is just as effective at removing ich and flukes as a fallow period does.
Don’t mix other drugs with hypo - that can add to the stress.
Hypo won’t harm a well established bio filter, but you may see an ammonia spike in newer tanks, so test for it during the first week of hypo.
No - don’t dip prior to hypo, it just adds stress with dubious benefit.
Jay

Sounds super promising, I'll be giving this a try!! Would 35 days be an effective period in hypo to completely eradicate the ich? Or does that clock not start until the firefish in the tank is ich free?

I was also wondering if you know about UV sterilizers and if getting one would also aid in the eradication or speed it up? I'm not sure if that would work with hypo, honestly I haven't done much research with UV yet

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sounds super promising, I'll be giving this a try!! Would 35 days be an effective period in hypo to completely eradicate the ich? Or does that clock not start until the firefish in the tank is ich free?

I was also wondering if you know about UV sterilizers and if getting one would also aid in the eradication or speed it up? I'm not sure if that would work with hypo, honestly I haven't done much research with UV yet

35 days is the usual timeframe to eliminate ich or flukes on a marine fish through hypo.

I am not a fan of using UV to cure an acute ich infection on fish when it is used as a side stream. It will not have any benefit for flukes. It *may* have some use as one part of a program of "ich management" in systems where the disease is still in a minor phase - along with perfect water quality, strong protein skimming, and daily siphoning of the substrate to remove infective ich tomonts...but then it still can fail.

Jay

 

[lilgrounchuck]

35 days is the usual timeframe to eliminate ich or flukes on a marine fish through hypo.

I am not a fan of using UV to cure an acute ich infection on fish when it is used as a side stream. It will not have any benefit for flukes. It *may* have some use as one part of a program of "ich management" in systems where the disease is still in a minor phase - along with perfect water quality, strong protein skimming, and daily siphoning of the substrate to remove infective ich tomonts...but then it still can fail.

Jay

Since he has a QT tank coming in would going hypo to kill the flukes off, then after x amount of time (whatever that is with hypo to kill flukes off since he can't get prazi) in hypo, bump salinity and then do copper for ich be a good path? That would let him keep the inverts in his DT still while letting it go fallow and have the residuals die off in there.

 

[taylormaximus]

So further update on the firefish, he's had a bump on his underside that's kind of come and gone the past few days. Hes definitely developing ich as well although it's still pretty minor, but I've just started lowering the salinity for hypo.

I just noticed that bump is now as big as I've seen it yet, here's the best pictures of it I could get.

You can see it's protruding out pretty far, but it hasn't broken through the skin so it's definitely something internal. Not sure if it's some sort of parasite or just his stomach protruding, it seems to be somewhat tied to when he eats, but he also is starting to look skinny despite eating quite a bit...

Any ideas on this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So further update on the firefish, he's had a bump on his underside that's kind of come and gone the past few days. Hes definitely developing ich as well although it's still pretty minor, but I've just started lowering the salinity for hypo.

I just noticed that bump is now as big as I've seen it yet, here's the best pictures of it I could get.

You can see it's protruding out pretty far, but it hasn't broken through the skin so it's definitely something internal. Not sure if it's some sort of parasite or just his stomach protruding, it seems to be somewhat tied to when he eats, but he also is starting to look skinny despite eating quite a bit...

Any ideas on this?

Not sure what that bump is, could be a nematode worm. There is a parasitic copepod that infects purple firefish that can look like this, but I've not seen that on regular firefish.

Jay

 

[taylormaximus]

So firefish update, he has been hiding in his cave for about 2 solid days, and so fearing the worst today I lifted the rocks to see if he was still alive and to my surprise he is... but he's doing really bad.

He still has the small raised bumps (probably counted less than 20) I figured were ich, but now he's also got a rough looking mucus coat all over his body, it's either mucus or scratches from flashing on the rocks. He is swimming really lethargicly along the bottom on his side and won't eat. His tail fins also seem clamped or limp. When he swims his back end hangs down almost like it's paralyzed. After less than 5 minutes of slow swimming he went back to the cave and is laying on his side. The tank has been in hypo for a few days, and besides the frequent flashing he had been doing fine until now.

Does the mucus rule out ich? Or could the mucus be an immune response to the ich? It's presenting more like brook or velvet now if it is mucus, but I don't know how likely those are. But like I said it's kind of hard to identify, it could just be wounds from flashing. If this is just ich is it likely he'll pull through? I was hoping he'd make it through the first wave and the hypo would prevent reinfection, but whether it's ich or something worse it's hitting HARD now.

 

[taylormaximus]