Help. Tank is dying
- Thread starter zeevelji
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What's your skimmer doing?
Any chance you could post a short vid of the tank in its current state?
Any chance you could post a short vid of the tank in its current state?
Magnapinna
Active Member
This is a red flag IMO. Tap water can't be trusted. Just because it's good one time doesn't mean it will be good another time. It can change on the day, they can add chemicals at any time that you may not be immediately aware of. Municipal water treatments will generally flush their systems with more harsh sanitizers at varying intervals. Stuff can leach from pipes you may not test for e.g. heavy metals. If you haven't used any potential chemical contaminants around the tank recently, contaminated tap water would be my number one suspicion at this point.
I'm not the OP, but are you thinking the skimmer may be running out of control if there's a toxin present, especially an organic toxin like a coral toxin? Or, are you thinking the skimmer may be importing toxins from the room that tank is in, like cleaning products?
Tired
2500 Club Member
Yeah, they may very well have changed something in the water. My recommendation would be to make up a batch of new water with something definitely safe (RODI, etc) and move any remaining livestock to a nice big bucket. Ideally with some of the rock, preferably rinsed first with some of that safe new water. You don't have much to lose at this point.
I was skeptical of the OP's source water myself.
To the OP, are you doing anything to your tap water like using a dechlorinator like SeaChem Prime or are you filtering the water in anyway. Honestly, chlorine or chloramine poisoning would, in my opinion, cause widespread die off, but it's weird you say you've been using the water for 6 months. But like @Magnapinna said, they can change things at any time.
drolmaeye
Active Member
Just want to clarify that while coral and invertebrates may be sensitive to changes in salinity, fish can handle very large drops (e.g., down to 1.010) immediately with very little stress. I agree that an *increase* in salinity should be done very slowly.
I believe this sort of mass death in such a short period -- for both fish and inverts -- is almost certainly an oxygen issue or a poison/contaminate.
Not my area of expertise, but it’s feasible that there’s traces of something that could build up over time and cause an issue.
Magnapinna
Active Member
Not all voltage is created equal. Electric currents are absolutely essential to life and happening in the body constantly, so it's hard to reasonably hypothesize that multiple small shocks over time would cause death. Stress from discomfort maybe but it shouldn't cause any biological disruptions. We also use things like shock collars, electric fences, cattle prods etc. on larger livestock with no ill effect. As well as TENS units and such in human medicine. I'm no engineer, but my understanding is it specifically has to be a sustained dose of very high voltage to kill something. I'd think enough voltage to cause apparent effect would make itself more obvious in a box of salt water.
JAS927
Active Member
The water idea could very well make sense even more-so if you live in an area where it’s been snowy and now starting to warm up. Cities often add extra chemical to the water supply to account for the spring runoff entering the water source.
Magnapinna
Active Member
Certainly very possible, especially something like heavy metals or PFAS that are virtually omnipresent in all municipal water systems and don't biodegrade. Those things aren't getting removed during water changes in this case, they're being replaced or increased. Ultimately carbon can only do so much
Was thinking it might be on overdrive from a pollutant, possibly (although some chemicals cause the opposite reaction).
To be honest, paint and other VOCs I have used in rooms with little ventilation adjacent to my reef systems and literally never had a problem. The stuff you ' think' would be ok is the stuff that gets you. 409, Fantastic, Febreeze, etc.
While insecticides/pesticides/fungicides could cause disaster, my pest guy comes every couple months. The first time he came i told him not to spray in the rooms with the tanks. He did it anyway, and i got furious, and then waited for my tanks to die. Nothing ever happened.
Yes could be water supply. @Magnapinna is spot on. I live in Orlando, and city water comes to my faucet with more chlorine than i keep in my pool (4ppm). Not to mention other toxins (arsenic) and radioactive isotopes FMRL. The thing is, i would bet the size of the last water change would not have raised the chlorin levels of anything so high that would kill the tank so quickly. Test strips from Walmart or home Depot or the pool store should tell you quickly if you have appreciable amounts of chlorine in the tank.
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VintageReefer
2500 Club Member
My first thought was the tap water. Cities randomly add cleaners or chlorine to tap water. It could be fine one day and chlorinated the next. And fine the day after that. It can’t be trusted.
I would get a water sample for icp testing so you get an answer down the line, and for now dump in some prime or dechlorinator to see if it helps
I would get a water sample for icp testing so you get an answer down the line, and for now dump in some prime or dechlorinator to see if it helps
Magnapinna
Active Member
Chlorine is honestly the least of my worries when it comes to tap water. So many contaminants there just aren't conventional tests for. Heavy metals, microplastics, PFAS, all manner of endocrine disruptors. Plenty of municipal water systems test positive for Mycobacterium spp. as well but obviously that wouldn't be to blame here.
I believe this is incorrect. It's not the voltage that's lethal, it's the amperage. A very small current that goes directly through your heart can be lethal (think left hand to right hand, straight through the chest). Obviously, I'm speaking of humans here and not fish. And as someone already pointed out, the fish are not grounded, like you would be in my heart example. It's like when an airplane gets struck by lightening, which happens all the time. The plane isn't grounded, so the people on board are not harmed. This is also why birds can perch on electrical wires, they are not also touching a ground source. So after some thought, I'm thinking that stray voltage in a tank probably would not result in widespread death, if any at all.
Magnapinna
Active Member
Unfortunately ruling out chlorine wouldn't exclude the possibility of contamination from tap water. There are soooo many pollutants that can worm their way into tap water and that we as hobbyists just can't detect. I live on the Chattahoochee and the water is horribly polluted with industrial chemicals. Not all of that stuff can be filtered out effectively, and I'm sure stuff forms in there from chemical reactions that water treatments aren't even fully aware of yet.
Ziggy17
Active Member
Ok, a couple assumptions here but if they are doable, it’s a plan of attack.
You said you did a 30% WC, so I’m Assuming it’s a smaller tank, under 65g, and assuming you live near a LFS, I’d call and see if you can buy some water from them and do a 100% water change with their RODI water at 1.026 salinity. Your coral won’t love it, but your fish can handle it. At least then you can rule out the water. Save some of your tap water and send it out for an ICP.
I’m not an expert on stray voltage but it seems there is an argument for and against it being a possible culprit. My money is on the water though…
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it can’t be fun.
You said you did a 30% WC, so I’m Assuming it’s a smaller tank, under 65g, and assuming you live near a LFS, I’d call and see if you can buy some water from them and do a 100% water change with their RODI water at 1.026 salinity. Your coral won’t love it, but your fish can handle it. At least then you can rule out the water. Save some of your tap water and send it out for an ICP.
I’m not an expert on stray voltage but it seems there is an argument for and against it being a possible culprit. My money is on the water though…
I’m sorry you’re going through this, it can’t be fun.
Magnapinna
Active Member
Forgive my mistake; after some cursory research I think amperage is more what I was referring to, strength of the current itself. I'm only a lowly biologist and don't have much familiarity with the proper terminology here.
Interesting to consider this as even lightning strike victims generally survive, albeit with lasting disability. Regardless, I agree I don't think it would cause this.
Agreed 100%. The list of chems in my water report is literally pages (pages) long. Chlorine only because it's cheap, quick, easy to rule out. And chloramines will eat an unfortified RODI for breakfast. I use four carbon blocks, anion, cation, and mixed resin bed in my RODI. I'm still paranoid lol.
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