Help with setting up two pump ATO

[muz_z]

Hello all

i have just setup a Kalkwasser stirrer and would like to how i can setup 2 pumps in my ATO
i want to be able to turn off the pump feeding the Kalkwasser reactor should the PH get to high and have it switch to the other pump in the ATO to just add RODI

i have a optical sensor to control the level in the sump

can this be done with the one sensor?

thanks
Maury

 

[Ditto]

Ok I want to make sure I understand,

One pump you want to control if the ph gets two high to turn off but also turn on the same pump that you want to us the ATO pump to turn on and fill no higher then the switch.

If this is correct:

What PH are you shooting for? And how much do you want it to fluctuate?

Do you want the ato to turn on also if the water level is low or only when the PH is high only also?

Do you want a maximum time set on the ATO also so if it does not fill in time also it shuts down (just another safety)

It would be better with two switches only because of one fails also.

 

[muz_z]

Hey Ditto

what i am trying to achieve is have the Kalkwasser feed by a pump in the ATO reservoir(as top off) and run unless the ph gets to 8.3 then the pump turns off and another pump in the ATO reservoir becomes active and can just top off if required RODI
once the ph drops to 8.15 the kalkwasser pumps runs again and the other pump is the inactive

hope that makes sense

thanks

 

[muz_z]

well having the ph rising a bit high during the lights on period(12pm-10pm) i have gone ahead and added the second pump to the ATO Reservoir
not setup how i exactly want it ( because i cant work it out) after reading all the posts on here i still dont know if what i want can be done

so i have gone ahead for the time being and done the below

ATO Night with kalk

made timer 1 for the kalk reactor pump in the ATO and set from 1:01am-12:59pm
setup G1 for timer 1 and fill water 1 ATO Only
set socket 12 to G1
this works of level sensor 1

ATO RODI only

made timer 2 for the just only ATO (RODI not Going into Kalk Reactor) pump 1pm -1am
setup G2 for timer 2 and fill water 1 ATO only
set socket 10 to G2
this works of level sensor 1

so will the above work correctly with the one level sensor?

what i want is to be able to stop the Kalk reactor pump if ph reaches 8.25 and have the ATO pump only work but if PH was to drop then the ATO only pump stop and Kalk reactor pump start ( but all to work with the one level sensor)

thanks
Maury

 

[muz_z]

well im still at a loss
after getting up this morning the above hasnt worked
i got a level C 3 alarm and water level in sump was low?

so the kalk stirrer pump hasnt worked

 

[Jeepguy242]

Sounds like you need a controller like an apex or reef keeper with ph monitoring and set it up to turn on whichever pump is required

The controller will need just one level sensor.

 

[Jeepguy242]

Sounds like you need a controller like an apex or reef keeper with ph monitoring and set it up to turn on whichever pump is required

The controller will need just one level sensor.

 

[muz_z]

i have a profilux P3ex no need for another controller just need to know how to setup the one i have correctly

 

[Mortie31]

I think your best solution will be to use programmable logic, but unfortunately I’m not very good at programming it myself
There may be some working examples in the thread on programmable logic that you may be able to copy
It sounds like you need
P1 - Ph less than 8.40 and ATO level low (sensor) then Kalk pump On
P2 - PH greater than 8.40 and ATO level low (sensor) then ATO pump on
Not sure best way to do this, but it’s along these lines, this way you would only need one level sensor , but I’m not sure if ph control can be done this way.

There are some real experts on here Lasse being one, I’m sure someone can work something out for you.

 

[Jeepguy242]

I can’t help you there cause I have a reefkeeper.

Here is the logic I think you want

If sump level low and ph is less than 8.3 turn on pump 1 to kalk stirrer

If sump is low and ph is equal to 8.3 or greater turn off pump 1 and turn on pump 2


Is this correct?

 

[muz_z]

yes thats exactly what i want

 

[muz_z]

Thanks Mortie and Jeepguy

i thought i might of had a work around for now but it didnt work

but as you have sated exactly what i want to achieve

 

[muz_z]

Hopefully Lasse will see this post and steer me in the right direction

 

[Jeepguy242]

Thanks Mortie and Jeepguy

i thought i might of had a work around for now but it didnt work

but as you have sated exactly what i want to achieve

i wish i could help with the programming but i even had a hard time programming my reef keeper LOL


im going to get an apex for 2 reasons... 1. the apex will hook up to my MacBook 2. it looks much easier to program....

i was just using my reef keeper for lights, i never went any further with it because programming it without the computer is a pain... sold it because of this

 

[Ditto]

Sorry caught the flu, so been not online

P1 - Ph less than 8.40 and ATO level low (sensor) then Kalk pump On
P2 - PH greater than 8.40 and ATO level low (sensor) then ATO pump on

First We need to program your PH Probe, I would create a virtual probe and use that one which we need to use to determine the swing and how the function will turn outlets on and off. @Lasse hoping he will chime in also

First we need to determine your Hyteresis which is the swing value your looking for. So for example if your Nominal Value is 8.4 and you want it to only swing .10 then the Hysteresis would be .10. This is important because we are going to use this setting to tell the Kalk Pump to turn on and off. (Picture below)

Now onto you Level sensor, we will follow the video below (But not assign it to the outlet)


Now we need to use the Program Function Option this will allow us to use two functions at the same time. You can even chain them together.

We will program one to be:
PH Probe decrease you are using (PH Probe) and ATO Function (It will look like this Picture)

Second Advance Function
PH Probe increase you are using (PH Probe) and ATO Function

You will then assign the the Programmable Logic to your outlet

1 Advance Function will be placed on the Kalk Pump Oulet the pump is plugged into
1 Advance Function will be placed on the ATo Pump Outlet the pump is plugged into

I would test this and monitor

If you were going to do this on the Apex, you would have to use the Advance Functions and type out the commands in the advance window example below (Sample below not 100% but just a sample of what one outlet could look like) (Order is very important ) This is not done through the GUI

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sump_P < 8.39 Then ON
IF SW1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sump_P > 8.4 Then OFF
IF SW1 OPEN Then OFF

 

[Lasse]

Hi

@Ditto was faster I was om my way - I have some different solutions so I publish them too.

I have planned exactly the same as you but not put it to work yet because at the moment my pH only dip to 8.20 and that’s OK for me

My plan was something like this

Make a level function

​

Remarks - this is for the floating sensor - I do not think its different for the optical

Maxim on-time. This depend of your chose. You have to calculate that time from "worst scenario" If you pump normally adjust the level in 1 minut - put it on 4. If the pump will run for a longer time - all fill up actions shouts down and you will get an alarm. If you do not want a maximum on time - set it to 0:00:00. reset error automatically - check this if you want it to work as soon as the fault has been fixed. Uncheck if you want to manually reset it

Always active - in this case - check this.

Which sensor to chose below "used sensors for the control" You can check this with help of the window Settings and state level-sensor in the bottom of my screen shot. Make the sensor to show on - check the x and - sign at state (direct). Put the sensor in off state - look which sensor that have change - that´s the one you should use as sensor for this control. Its wise to have a reaction time on actual sensor to be around 10 sek. It will wait for 10 seconds before its react

Save and in my case its level control 1

Set up your pH controller

​

Set nominal value - in my case 8.20 - in your 8.3
Hysteresis - 0.05
Nocturnal change - after your choice
Alarm - if you want it active or not - tip do not make it to close to the nominal value - at least 0.2 i difference

Operation mode controller
This is a interesting choice.
Normal is two positions but I always use Pulse variable. In “two Positions” the pH value will vary between (in my case) 0.025 plus or minus from the nominal value in best case – but if there is a time lag between the input and the reading – it can vary a little bit more (in my case 8.17 – 8.23)

In “pulse variable” – the value will be more stable. The pulse time tell the maximum on time before a pause. If the actual value is close to the nominal value – the computer automatically makes the on time lesser. Wait the pause time – looks how the differences developed during the paus time and calculate a new on time. In my case I have taken 15 minutes – this time is not written in stones – you must adjust to your system.

The pause time should be the time it takes from your system put in lime water till your meter shows the result. Is input and probe in the same well mixed apartment – make it short – are they situated in different apartments of the system – you must test with different paus times.

Now go to Programmable logic

Make a new G entry - in my case G4

​

In this case
Input 1 Fill water (ATO only) 1
Input 2 pH-value 1 Increase
Function AND
If you have other Fill water or Ph-probes - you need to fill in this instead for 1
Save

Now to the switch option

​

I chose socket 40 because I doing all these screenshots on a PL 4 that´s in charge at the moment - you can make your chose as you want
Now make it to react with your PL - G4
Put your limewater pump into socket 40 and now it should run if the level switch say yes and the pH is below 8.2 in my case

Test because I have not done this by myself yet

Now to the normal ATO operation

Create a new PL (in my case G5) with the same level control but invert the function PH 1 increase

​

Looks like this

​

Connect this to an outlet (in my case socket 41) and put in your ATO pump there

​

Your switch and PL window should look this

​

This is the way I should start to test but be aware that I have not tested this - you have to check by your self that it works


Sincerely Lasse

 

[Ditto]

@Lasse thank you!!

 

[Lasse]

The inverted function is rather powerful and in this case the level indicator has the dominated function and if demand two is fullfilled or not will decide witch switch that will be acitvated by the level function.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Mortie31]

Thank you Ditto and Lasse

 

[muz_z]

wow thank you guys for the help
very detailed and the effort is greatly appreciated

i will now try it out and let you all know how it goes