Hemmdog’s 90gal Seaciety and 40gal Vale of Shadows

[4FordFamily]

I have had established hardy tangs live with velvet for months before I properly ID’d it.

I kept velvet in my wrasse tank with a blonde Naso Tang for about one year. Not ethical, and I did lose some fish, especially new ones. Wrasse have very thick slime coats and sleep in mucous cocoons and often in the sand so they’re far less impacted. The hippo and naso that lived with it for a while just become slowly resistant but eventually the hippo died and soon after I saw velvet symptoms and properly identified the disease. The blonde naso would have lived for years I’m convinced, however.

That said, I lost several before I found one hardy enough to make it through. Not ethical, IMO.

So yes healthy resident fish can be resistant for some time. New additions will quickly succumb due to the weakened immune state, stress, and a lack of resistance built.

I agree that is velvet almost certainly.

 

[BeejReef]

Sounds like a plan. My clown is getting much worse. Not moving at all. Breathing heavy and very pale. I don’t think he will survive the night

Sorry to hear about your troubles hdog. Hope your fish pull through.

 

[Hemmdog]

I have had established hardy tangs live with velvet for months before I properly ID’d it.

I kept velvet in my wrasse tank with a blonde Naso Tang for about one year. Not ethical, and I did lose some fish, especially new ones. Wrasse have very thick slime coats and sleep in mucous cocoons and often in the sand so they’re far less impacted. The hippo and naso that lived with it for a while just become slowly resistant but eventually the hippo died and soon after I saw velvet symptoms and properly identified the disease. The blonde naso would have lived for years I’m convinced, however.

That said, I lost several before I found one hardy enough to make it through. Not ethical, IMO.

So yes healthy resident fish can be resistant for some time. New additions will quickly succumb due to the weakened immune state, stress, and a lack of resistance built.

I agree that is velvet almost certainly.

Thank you for the detailed response.
This is the worst

 

[Hemmdog]

Sorry to hear about your troubles hdog. Hope your fish pull through.

Thanks bro, me too

 

[NY_Caveman]

Thinking about you, brother. I have had a busy few days, but I have been following along here still and hoping for the best.

 

[Hemmdog]

Thinking about you, brother. I have had a busy few days, but I have been following along here still and hoping for the best.

Thanks caveman. I’ll get her figured out.

 

[Rakie]

Disease can be tricky. Usually a quick FW dip (Well aerated, temperature matched) can help a lot. But if it's brook or velvet it's often too late once physical signs have manifested, less so with velvet, but very often the case with Brook.

First thing I would do is remove the fish. I don't care if you put it in a plastic cookie jar with a small heater and an aerator. I always think of fish as disease bombs. Your other fish are probably sick too, but you still don't want that bomb going off.

 

[Hemmdog]

Ok so I’ve had some time to think. Tomorrow is going to be a big day.
@HotRocks @4FordFamily @ngoodermuth @Big G
If I take all my rocks out I can most likely catch the fish. I will loose some corals I’m sure but I guess that’s part of reefing.

Do I put all my fish in the same hospital tank to treat them? Would I be better off getting multiple hospital tanks? What size should all of these be?

I guess I will go fallow in my main display to insure this monster never returns. Do I also need to take out my snails, hermits, urchin, conch? How long of fallow is required for velvet?

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
I have always been the guy that does things the natural way, let nature take its course with reefing; boy do I look stupid now, lol.

 

[Rakie]

You probably won't lose corals. Get those big plastic tubs to hold rocks with coral on them.

 

[Hemmdog]

You probably won't lose corals. Get those big plastic tubs to hold rocks with coral on them.

With how bad I am at catching fish they will be out of water for over an hour ;Dead

 

[Rakie]

With how bad I am at catching fish they will be out of water for over an hour ;Dead

Take out water and fill those steralites. Makes the fish easier to catch as well.

 

[Raege]

Sorry for your troubles Wishing you the best of luck catching and caring for your fish

 

[Katrina71]

I agree with Rakie, I think your corals might pout, but will recover. I have been shocked what has come back after a crash.

 

[Katrina71]

I hate that you are going through this. I had no idea velvet could be a much slower progression. I am hopeful your little guys are able to push through this. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Richard Ivory]

just reading through your thread ,sorry to hear of your trouble at the moment ,and hope you turn it around

is that the T5ho hybrid lighting unit you are using btw and if so how have you found it as its the route i want to go later this year ?

 

[HotRocks]

Ok so I’ve had some time to think. Tomorrow is going to be a big day.
@HotRocks @4FordFamily @ngoodermuth @Big G
If I take all my rocks out I can most likely catch the fish. I will loose some corals I’m sure but I guess that’s part of reefing.

Do I put all my fish in the same hospital tank to treat them? Would I be better off getting multiple hospital tanks? What size should all of these be?

I guess I will go fallow in my main display to insure this monster never returns. Do I also need to take out my snails, hermits, urchin, conch? How long of fallow is required for velvet?

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
I have always been the guy that does things the natural way, let nature take its course with reefing; boy do I look stupid now, lol.

You can do this without losing corals.

Use a decent size Rubbermaid tote. Start by siphoning tankwater into tote. Then move your rock to the tote. This will keep corals submerged and less water in tank makes the fish catching easier.

Fallow period for velvet is 6 weeks. 76 days is a complete fallow and will cover ich as as well. Everything except for the fish is good to stay in your DT for the fallow period.

As far as QT size. A 40b will probably work for all of your fish. You will definitely want an ammonia badge to monitor ammonia. Always keep water for a water change mixed/heated so if you have an emergency situation you can do a WC quickly. I use biospira to seed QTs. This link has most everything related to QT you should need to know:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/thread-links-to-all-things-quarantine-fish-inverts.602917/

 

[4FordFamily]

You can do this without losing corals.

Use a decent size Rubbermaid tote. Start by siphoning tankwater into tote. Then move your rock to the tote. This will keep corals submerged and less water in tank makes the fish catching easier.

Fallow period for velvet is 6 weeks. 76 days is a complete fallow and will cover ich as as well. Everything except for the fish is good to stay in your DT for the fallow period.

As far as QT size. A 40b will probably work for all of your fish. You will definitely want an ammonia badge to monitor ammonia. Always keep water for a water change mixed/heated so if you have an emergency situation you can do a WC quickly. I use biospira to seed QTs. This link has most everything related to QT you should need to know:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/thread-links-to-all-things-quarantine-fish-inverts.602917/

I agree. I like 55 G for quarantine as well. Both can be had used for about the same price.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Ok so I’ve had some time to think. Tomorrow is going to be a big day.
@HotRocks @4FordFamily @ngoodermuth @Big G
If I take all my rocks out I can most likely catch the fish. I will loose some corals I’m sure but I guess that’s part of reefing.

Do I put all my fish in the same hospital tank to treat them? Would I be better off getting multiple hospital tanks? What size should all of these be?

I guess I will go fallow in my main display to insure this monster never returns. Do I also need to take out my snails, hermits, urchin, conch? How long of fallow is required for velvet?

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
I have always been the guy that does things the natural way, let nature take its course with reefing; boy do I look stupid now, lol.

Here's the "All things QT" links, if you want to check some of this info out before getting started:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/thread-links-to-all-things-quarantine-fish-inverts.602917/

I'd say, if your plan is to treat them all together, 40g would be the minimum tank size I would use. Fallow period for brook/velvet is 6 weeks, ich is 76 days (the longest known dormant encysted strain was 72 days, plus a 4-day buffer) Snails, crabs, corals, etc can't host parasites so they can stay... just no fish.

If you want to split them up, I'd keep the wrasses together in one tank and the heavily afflicted in the other. Can split up the rest however you'd like... but wrasses don't always tolerate copper so well, so it would be better for them to ramp the copper up over 4-5 days. Obviously, the tangs and heavily-covered fish don't have have the liberty of the same ramp-up time, so that tank you would want to reach therapeutic sooner (2-3 days max).

I use cupramine (ionic copper), and have for quite some time. But, many prefer to use copper power (chelated copper) with more sensitive fish like wrasses. Whichever copper you get, you'll need a corresponding test kit. For chelated, you'll need a high-range kit like API. If you go with ionic, Seachem makes a test kit specifically for use with cupramine that works pretty well. There is also a reference test included so that you can double check that you have actually reached therapuetic. Hanna checker will do both.

Therapuetic level for chelated copper is 1.75-2.0
For ionic, it's .5

You want to keep the level as steady as possible during treatment. Dose water-change water before it goes into the tank to ensure there is no fluctuations, even momentarily. And test frequently, at least daily for the first couple of weeks. You might see the level drop a bit initially as the tank/equipment/sand for wrasses absorb some, but it should be minimal. Don't use live rock or any other porous media that can make absorption worse. Copper treatment is 30 days for a single QT, or 14 if you are able to transfer them to another clean QT for observation after. IF you separate them for the copper treatment, they can come back together for the observation period in a single QT. Don't lower the copper level prior to transfer.

I'd also dose an antibiotic (Furan-2 and/or kanaplex are fine to use with copper) in with the heavily covered fish. Metroplex is another good idea for both tanks, for the antibiotic properties and also the off-chance there is brooklynella involved here. Antibiotics should be used for at least 10 days, or as long as 14 if needed. Should do water changes as instructed, dosing copper into the new water first as mentioned above.

Ammonia test kits won't work in copper, so you'll need an Ammonia Alert Badge, and plenty of Bio-Spira or other bottled bacteria products to manage ammonia. Do NOT use Prime or other chemical ammonia reducers, they amplify copper toxicity tenfold and will kill all of your fish.

Make sure to keep the QT well aerated, power-head(s) aimed at the surface and an air-stone. Meds can deplete O2 fairly quickly, so this is important.

I'm not sure I can think of anything else off of the top of my head right now, but read through those links and send me a message or tag if you aren't sure about something and I can try to talk you through it

 

[neoGeorge]

Just took these

Those 3 are the worst

This looks more like ich to me

I think my yellow tang is healthy? He’s had a little hlle I think behind his eye since I’ve had him.

Firefish seems healthy

Potter’s seems healthy.

Black leopard seems healthy

Azure seems healthy

Watchman seems good besides swimming up towards the surface more than usual. Maybe a little fluke on his head if you can see in the pic.

Thanks everyone for helping out. It really means a lot .

Really sorry that you're going through this @Hemmdog

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Sorry you are facing this but you are now in the hands of the treatment gurus...wish you well!