How do you feel about?

[I-K@ndY]

+1 on Chad.... I don't understand people who buys frags that dont asked for names.. then they go to asked for Id's... ( cuz it might look the same as the high end ones)... Sometimes I got Pm's asking to Id it.. I simply reply " asked the seller who sold it to you "... I sounded mean but I don't want to help Id a coral without knowing where it came from ...

 

[Paul_N]

I agree about the fact about $ being the driving force behind all that has gone wrong with this hobby. Personally I could care less if a name is attached to a piece of coral. I get something because I like it. I tried keeping tack and it just got too confusing. I also couldn't tell the difference when I saw some of the pieces in person so I wasn't sure if the coral wasn't all it was cracked up to be or just a knock off. When you get hung up on lineage and names then your hobby has just changed from reef keeping to collectibles and that is an entirely different ball game. I have never purchased any coral online as I have been blessed with fellow reefers in the area with amazing livestock. I have been in FOWLR for almost 15 years on and off but the reef end only about 2 years and my tank has finally hit the sweet spot. When I get into a bigger tank I will definitely buy higher end coral but only because of what it looks like, not because of a name attached to it. I have a couple zoas that I have no idea that they are but could care less because I like them. I will get around to posting pics and asking for an ID but only because I am tired of calling it the zoa with the orange and green center and yellow skirt...:tongue: IMO it is not just the livestock but also the equipment but that is an entirely different thread...:xd:

 

[mpoletti]

+1 on Chad.... I don't understand people who buys frags that dont asked for names.. then they go to asked for Id's... ( cuz it might look the same as the high end ones)... Sometimes I got Pm's asking to Id it.. I simply reply " asked the seller who sold it to you "... I sounded mean but I don't want to help Id a coral without knowing where it came from ...

Well said Steve. I can only imagine the person who sits at the LFS looking at a coral, trying to decide what the coral looks like so they can get an id only to sell it for a profit. That sure doesn't seem like a hobby to me.

And people used to give me a hard time for not wanting to frag my corals...

 

[HAudioSolutions]

I personally don't care about a lineage. If I like it and feel the price is reasonable to me then I may buy it. I've seen some really nice corals out there but I personally don't feel they look good enough to fit it in my budget. I don't care if I'm one of few people to own a coral. Blah.. rare, limited edition, or Tyree isn't what got me into this hobby so many years ago. Sure, everyone has a certain level of pride if your frogspawn looked better than your friend but the goal where I started was not to out do but figure out why one looked better than another and correct the other if possible. I know the market drives the prices and the prices drive more to create a more exclusive line of coral but again. I started out just wanting a healthy and nice looking piece of the living reef in my home and I'm still very happy with that. I suppose many are enjoying the hobby on a totally different budget than myself. Hehe

 

[revhtree]

We can gripe ad moan about it all day long, but until "consumers" stop paying for names and ridiculous prices for one eye frags then it will never stop. You can't blame a business for capitalizing on what someone is willing to pay. They are in business to make money. I am not saying I agree, but you got to look at it from both perspectives. The blame lies with the consumer.

 

[laskopyre]

We can gripe ad moan about it all day long, but until "consumers" stop paying for names and ridiculous prices for one eye frags then it will never stop. You can't blame a business for capitalizing on what someone is willing to pay. They are in business to make money. I am not saying I agree, but you got to look at it from both perspectives. The blame lies with the consumer.

I totally agree. The demand has been there, so more and more named corals have appeared. Once the demand subsides, or the market is flooded the prices will go to where they should be. I personally don't care if something has a name, as long is it looks nice. I would rather buy from a fellow reefer, or get something at a swap.

 

[mpoletti]

If we don't gripe and moan, then the vendors might not have an idea that the consumer feels the way they do. They may be able to sell a couple pieces at a higher price, but whats the long term effect on the client pool and repeat customers. I know that they are more than a handful of sponsors out there that are not respected for their business practices and pricing.

Either way, My money has been put away and if people are tired of it as well, I suggest supporting the LFS. All it takes is a couple of weeks for it too start affecting the bottom line ;)
IMO, vendors are just as responsible as the consumers. I know plenty of vendors who agree and feel the same way :)

 

[revhtree]

If we don't gripe and moan, then the vendors might not have an idea that the consumer feels the way they do. They may be able to sell a couple pieces at a higher price, but whats the long term effect on the client pool and repeat customers. I know that they are more than a handful of sponsors out there that are not respected for their business practices and pricing.

Either way, My money has been put away and if people are tired of it as well, I suggest supporting the LFS. All it takes is a couple of weeks for it too start affecting the bottom line ;)
IMO, vendors are just as responsible as the consumers. I know plenty of vendors who agree and feel the same way :)

Well let me take my foot out of my mouth for a second. I wasn't meaning anyone in particular or even this thread as griping or moaning, I meant the fact that we see these topics every other week it seems. Which is fine, but what I was saying is instead of just writing about it, do something about it like you have done Mark.

Also I do feel some responsibility is due the vendor, but what it all boils down to is the consumer. Business are out to make money. "Most" businesses will earn as much as people are "willing" to give. If people are not willing to take a step back then what is going to cause the vendor to change the practice?

 

[roshi719]

Anyone ever been to a petting zoo? The goats come up to you as soon as you come in because they know you have a hand full of tasty oats for them, but as soon as you slow down giving them out or run out of oats then they just move right on to the next guy in line. Vendors are a lot like the goats, I know because I used to be one but got out of it because I enjoy this too much as a hobby for a business to ruin it for me. The vendor just moves on to the next guy in line willing to shell out X amount of dollars. The only way to change it is to stop forking over ridiculous amounts of cash for a tiny frag of something. I'm not saying don't pay for itf you like it for the price, I'm just saying be a smart consumer and figure out which vendors are reputable enough to justify paying $X. I think vendors do get held accountable as the shady ones quickly find themselves without orders rolling in.

 

[Sikryd]

This hobby is a totally different beast as far as a business model goes. This goes for hobbiests as well.
Since the product is rejuvenating, it puts a totally different spin on things.
Around here you can't give away Tyree Sunset Monti's, so when I decided to stock the tank, I figured either go with "high-end" corals that no-one really has, or go with some "regular" stuff and just throw it out when it gets too big.
This mentality has also transferred to those that just want to make money. They don't have displays and are only buying stuff to frag it up and sell later. This raises the prices since they are willing to pay higher prices since they know it will grow out.
There are a lot of different facets to the hobby nowadays that weren't present even 3 years ago. So things will take a while to peak, even out, or do whatever it is going to do.
I fell into the same thing ~ 6 months ago when I first started really collecting and stocking the tank. I paid $600 for a wild chalice colony. I bought it figuring A: I would have one I could name B: Could sell frags and help pay for it.
In the end, I ended up with a rock weight (since there is no paper in my tank ;) ) It is completely brown and chillin in the back of my tank.
I was part of the problem, and so was the mentality I went into it with at the time.
Since then I have bought stuff that I really like, with the hopes that sure I'll hopefully be able to sell some frags down the road since I bought some nice stuff, but if I don't cool. I'm not counting/expecting anything. It has been a blast since then.
I think there are too many people out there that have wayyyyyyyyy too much tied up in their frag tanks that this isn't a hobby for them, and isn't fun. Thats why I decided not to go with one.

BTW - when is the last time you heard of someone going into a LFS and stealing coral by putting it in their drink cup that they filled with saltwater?

Things are changing......

 

[Psychographic]

I don't understand people who buys frags that dont asked for names.. then they go to asked for Id's

Not every LFS, vendor, hobbiest has a name for every frag/coral. How many times have you asked a LFS what a particular coral is and got the reply, "I don't know. The wholesaler had it listed as a generic "whatever species the coral is".
Now your stuck asking for an ID to find out what lighting, flow, etc. for your new piece.

You have to remember, not everyone is involved at the same level in this hobby.

 

[Bio-nut]

I am with you Mark! I am so sick of this hobby being turned into a place for some Faux reefer (vendor) to turn a dollar! In my opinion they need to shut down Aus. import and do not even think about looking at japanese import! If you saw the amount of profit that these vendors are making on these corals you would be so ticked! I have seen some mark ups get as high as 5-10 times the price they got it for! Something needs to change!

 

[Bio-nut]

And to top it all off, these corals are coming directly from the ocean into the vendors tanks (pretty much), so the colorations you see on there web pages are not proven stable. You can pretty much guess that you are going to buy a coral that will morph.

Don't even get me started on Photoshop! Let just say that it has ruiened the hobby for me!

 

[I-K@ndY]

Not every LFS, vendor, hobbiest has a name for every frag/coral. How many times have you asked a LFS what a particular coral is and got the reply, "I don't know. The wholesaler had it listed as a generic "whatever species the coral is".
Now your stuck asking for an ID to find out what lighting, flow, etc. for your new piece.

You have to remember, not everyone is involved at the same level in this hobby.

I understand not all of us are in the same level.... Im talking about people who buys frags i.e. a no name watermelon chalice ..now, that person sees the hype about tyree's or high end watermelon so he post to fish some Id's to make more out of a 30.00 frag..

Id'ing is fine when your intention is purely to find out the species but not a specific name to make some bucks ;)

 

[HAudioSolutions]

Maybe I've been under a rock but it seems all of this sort of blew up not so long ago. I know there have been some choice pieces out there for some time but it seems to have gotten way out of control and I'm glad I'm not the only one with a negative view on this.

 

[bamachamp92]

There is no IDing as LE, There is only two choices,
1. You buy from someone with lineage and it is LE
2. You buy from someone without lineage or from LFS with no lineage, It may be a nice piece and look like something else but really its just a nice no name, if you didnt buy it with a name and lineage dont try to make it something its not.

IF YOU WANT A LE CORAL DO LIKE THE REST OF US AND SPEND THE EXTRA MONEY AND BUY A LE CORAL, DONT BUY A LOOK ALIKE TO TRY TO PASS OF AS SOMETHING ELSE. THE PEOPLE TRYING TO PASS OFF LOOK ALIKES AS THE REAL THING ARE RUINING THE HOBBY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO PAY THE MONEY TO GET THE REAL THING.

 

[mpoletti]

IF YOU WANT A LE CORAL DO LIKE THE REST OF US AND SPEND THE EXTRA MONEY AND BUY A LE CORAL, DONT BUY A LOOK ALIKE TO TRY TO PASS OF AS SOMETHING ELSE. THE PEOPLE TRYING TO PASS OFF LOOK ALIKES AS THE REAL THING ARE RUINING THE HOBBY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO PAY THE MONEY TO GET THE REAL THING.

Thank You :xd:

I am afraid that the days of honest collecting are behind us :( I do not feel the same way about collecting anymore. A large reason for it is the extra drama that goes with it. Some people are tired of threads like these, but they restore hope for people like me that still look at this hobby as a hobby and not a way to make money.

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Fortunately for us Canadian reefers ... we don't practice nor use the "name game propaganda" to gain popularity or more money ... sure it'd cost more for a multi-colored coral but only for the very few who has deep pockets. We're more conservative in a some ways ... LOL
The type of selected corals which you folks considered "premium" corals cost way less than what we have to pay up here ... :ooh:
Oh yeah we do get those premium corals ... either 'thru our LFS' or close reefer buddies and Yet!! .... we can't afford it still ... :sure:!!! Not really ... :tongue:

Paul

 

[Pizzapro83]

I love this hobby. But the pricing has got out of hand. Six months ago I paid 225 for a eye of tyree miami hurricane. And I mean a small eye. I fragged it two weeks ago and can't even give it away cause so many people have it. I paid that much cause I wanted it so I don't mind. But its crazy how it has no value anymore.

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Unfortunately ... everybody wants to make a Quick Buck!!!

Just the last couple years it was the Aussie Acan craze and now .... Aussie Chalices & SPS?

Nuclear Greens and Purple Deaths anyone ... hhmmm??

Paul