How to Not Quarantine?

Anemone_Fanatic

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 8, 2022
Messages
2,270
Reaction score
10,013
Location
Vermont
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Let me start off by saying that I have the ability to quarantine fish, but would much rather not. I know that it can be as easy as a 10 gallon, a HOB filter, some pieces of PVC pipe, and a heater. I know that it is somewhat cheap, and I know that you don't need a ton of space to quarantine. Why do I not want to do quarantine, if that's the case? Simple. I don't want to harm my fish any more than is absolutely necessary. From reading on this forum and browsing build threads, I see as many (if not more) deaths from stress, ammonia, jumping, and other quarantine-related issues than from disease. Stress in particular seems like a big one to me. How is a sterile environment filled with medications and PVC is a safer and more comfortable place than a display tank with rock, sand, and light? I would think that it would be the other way around. Even if it is possible to quarantine fish without physically harming them in the process, I still wouldn't like seeing the poor things scared out of their minds in such an unnatural and unfamiliar environment. I'd also like to avoid the frequent water changes/testing in a QT. That being settled, how can I keep fish from breaking out in disease without quarantine? The way I see it, my options are

1) Quarantining - See above.
2) Ordering pre-quarantined fish - Seems like a safer bet than quarantining fish myself, but I'd prefer to avoid the need to ship and the increased cost.
3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.
4) Just add fish - This would entail simply acquiring fish online or from an LFS and dropping them in. This seems to be where most of the horror stories about velvet/whitespot/brook wiping out whole tanks come from, but it would also be the most convenient solution.

Which of these would work best for me in my situation? I'm leaning towards ordering pre-quarantined, but that leaves me with only 3-4 vendors to order from, and a long delay in receiving fish. I could probably quarantine if I really need to, but it is definitely something I want to avoid. Is there anything else that would work? Thanks!
 

mrpontiac80

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,059
Reaction score
3,905
Location
centerton AR
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I personally will never put a non quarantined fish in my display ever again. Been there done that and I lost most of them because of velvet.
after that I went fallow for 90 days and decided to use HumbleFish’s h202 hybrid qt method. 1.5 years later and all is well.
Copper and everything is overwhelming to a lot of people myself included. The hybrid h202 tank transfer was work but worth it.
Basically I have 2 identical setups.
Two 10 gallon tanks
2 heaters
2 sets of large pvc
2 screen tops
And a package of air stones. With a pump.

Thread 'Hybrid TTM to treat more parasites!'
https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-more-parasites.1765/
 

TheDragonsReef

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 25, 2020
Messages
1,729
Reaction score
3,199
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I qt myself and have bought pre-quarantined fish as well. I would not recommend any other option personally. The fish handle shipping much better than youd think but loses can still happen. Many places have dead on arrival policies so youre covered if any do pass. Qt is always the best practice. I highly recommend drreefsquarantinedfish.com for prequarintined, their qt prices cant be beat and all the fish ive gotten from them have been very healthy.

However if you are against it and keeping a smaller tank, pests, parasites and disease are much easier to deal with. A ripclean is much more feasible when their is an outbreak. Also less fish=less chance of disease. But it will always be a risk.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

Just another girl who likes fish
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
13,102
Reaction score
19,540
Location
Spring, Texas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Let me start off by saying that I have the ability to quarantine fish, but would much rather not. I know that it can be as easy as a 10 gallon, a HOB filter, some pieces of PVC pipe, and a heater. I know that it is somewhat cheap, and I know that you don't need a ton of space to quarantine. Why do I not want to do quarantine, if that's the case? Simple. I don't want to harm my fish any more than is absolutely necessary. From reading on this forum and browsing build threads, I see as many (if not more) deaths from stress, ammonia, jumping, and other quarantine-related issues than from disease. Stress in particular seems like a big one to me. How is a sterile environment filled with medications and PVC is a safer and more comfortable place than a display tank with rock, sand, and light? I would think that it would be the other way around. Even if it is possible to quarantine fish without physically harming them in the process, I still wouldn't like seeing the poor things scared out of their minds in such an unnatural and unfamiliar environment. I'd also like to avoid the frequent water changes/testing in a QT. That being settled, how can I keep fish from breaking out in disease without quarantine? The way I see it, my options are

1) Quarantining - See above.
2) Ordering pre-quarantined fish - Seems like a safer bet than quarantining fish myself, but I'd prefer to avoid the need to ship and the increased cost.
3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.
4) Just add fish - This would entail simply acquiring fish online or from an LFS and dropping them in. This seems to be where most of the horror stories about velvet/whitespot/brook wiping out whole tanks come from, but it would also be the most convenient solution.

Which of these would work best for me in my situation? I'm leaning towards ordering pre-quarantined, but that leaves me with only 3-4 vendors to order from, and a long delay in receiving fish. I could probably quarantine if I really need to, but it is definitely something I want to avoid. Is there anything else that would work? Thanks!
The only options I would add are:

1. Buy from another hobbyist who you trust to tell you the truth about any problems, diseases, etc in their system.

2. Use observational quarantine which does not use meds - a cycled tank with rock, sand, etc - but gives you time to see if the fish is eating well and/or seems to be sick, before exposing the rest of your system to whatever the fish may be carrying.
 

mtraylor

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
4,036
Reaction score
2,943
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The answer is a simple one in itself that you seem to be skating around. You already know the answer to your question. There is nothing else that is going to work. You have your 2 options.

1. QT yourself
2. Order QT fish

Now even buying QT fish does not cover everything In my experience. that being said. Check our DR QT fish. They are great to work with.

One other option is. Try some of your LFS's. Some LFS's have their fish in therapeutic copper and also treat them with prazi to keep their inventory from being wiped out due to the degradation in fish quality from vendors. Some vendors are not treating their water so the disease's are just spread to healthy fish from the sea and its a vicious cycle. You may be able to find some fish that have been in their inventory for several weeks and eating.

Good luck
 
OP
OP
Anemone_Fanatic

Anemone_Fanatic

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 8, 2022
Messages
2,270
Reaction score
10,013
Location
Vermont
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Seems like I should stick to ordering pre-quarantined then... Anyone know of some good vendors? I've found DrReef, Seahorse Savvy, TSM Aquatics, and Marine Collectors so far. They all seem good for the most part, but I'd like to find one that can ship fish a little quicker. I'm fine waiting a while to get in a fish if it means that it is healthy, but a few months is a little longer than I'd like. One of my LFS does sell a few quarantined fish, but only clowns for some unclear reason. Pity they don't quarantine other fish too, they had a lovely little Cirrhilabrus exquisitus when I was last there.
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
90,852
Reaction score
200,119
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
I have been seeing many quarantined fish including two posts today where QT fish are arriving and getting disease. While QT lessens the chance of such result, We have to assume all fish QT or not have disease and its best practice to QT arrivals especially those Knowingly susceptible to disease ( clowns, tangs, wrasses and anthias/chromis)
Remember. . . Disease is on YOU- not the shipper , or the neighbor watching your tank.
Too many are Not focusing on water/ water quality which is the lifeline for all marine specimens.
Buying cheap test kits, badges and foods such as flakes instead of protein/fat/amino enriched frozen foods are getting by and not management in total.
Water quality and diet are the keys to good overall health.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

Just another girl who likes fish
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
13,102
Reaction score
19,540
Location
Spring, Texas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Seems like I should stick to ordering pre-quarantined then... Anyone know of some good vendors? I've found DrReef, Seahorse Savvy, TSM Aquatics, and Marine Collectors so far. They all seem good for the most part, but I'd like to find one that can ship fish a little quicker. I'm fine waiting a while to get in a fish if it means that it is healthy, but a few months is a little longer than I'd like. One of my LFS does sell a few quarantined fish, but only clowns for some unclear reason. Pity they don't quarantine other fish too, they had a lovely little Cirrhilabrus exquisitus when I was last there.
You could also buy directly from ORA or Biota... Captive bred and *should be* disease free.
 

Tamberav

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
9,550
Reaction score
14,629
Location
Wauwatosa, WI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Alien Reef Aquatics
FisHotel (sign up for email list as fish sell fast and email will say day/time fish drop)
Ocean Devotion
TerraReef Aquaculture (this might be corals)

These all have have a strict regimen that includes 2 week observation after QT.
 

mtraylor

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
4,036
Reaction score
2,943
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The clownfish is probably from ORA. I believe they are bred in Sterile environments and away from big old temporary fish farm holding facilities where the fish are infected.
 

ISpeakForTheSeas

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 22, 2021
Messages
5,935
Reaction score
7,123
Location
United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
TerraReef Aquaculture (this might be corals)
Supposedly they offer a few other things too (like the Stomatella snails linked below), but they don't seem to have links to these other things on their site.
 

LPS Bum

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
570
Reaction score
828
Location
Colorado
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Let me start off by saying that I have the ability to quarantine fish, but would much rather not. I know that it can be as easy as a 10 gallon, a HOB filter, some pieces of PVC pipe, and a heater. I know that it is somewhat cheap, and I know that you don't need a ton of space to quarantine. Why do I not want to do quarantine, if that's the case? Simple. I don't want to harm my fish any more than is absolutely necessary. From reading on this forum and browsing build threads, I see as many (if not more) deaths from stress, ammonia, jumping, and other quarantine-related issues than from disease. Stress in particular seems like a big one to me. How is a sterile environment filled with medications and PVC is a safer and more comfortable place than a display tank with rock, sand, and light? I would think that it would be the other way around. Even if it is possible to quarantine fish without physically harming them in the process, I still wouldn't like seeing the poor things scared out of their minds in such an unnatural and unfamiliar environment. I'd also like to avoid the frequent water changes/testing in a QT. That being settled, how can I keep fish from breaking out in disease without quarantine? The way I see it, my options are

1) Quarantining - See above.
2) Ordering pre-quarantined fish - Seems like a safer bet than quarantining fish myself, but I'd prefer to avoid the need to ship and the increased cost.
3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.
4) Just add fish - This would entail simply acquiring fish online or from an LFS and dropping them in. This seems to be where most of the horror stories about velvet/whitespot/brook wiping out whole tanks come from, but it would also be the most convenient solution.

Which of these would work best for me in my situation? I'm leaning towards ordering pre-quarantined, but that leaves me with only 3-4 vendors to order from, and a long delay in receiving fish. I could probably quarantine if I really need to, but it is definitely something I want to avoid. Is there anything else that would work? Thanks!
Years ago I lost all of my fish to a velvet outbreak. Thousands of dollars in beautiful fish gone in a few days. It was heartbreaking and I vowed it would never happen again.

Since then, 100% of my fish, for both tanks, have been through a 30 day QT. Some were treated with copper, some were not. Haven’t lost any though.

QT does more than prevent disease outbreaks. It gives new fish the chance to settle in and start eating without being bullied or having to compete daily for food (that’s the stress aspect you mentioned).

But to each their own.
 

vtecintegra

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
1,386
Reaction score
1,561
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I got a Blenny straight from ORA that went into a sterile QT that was scratching. ORA said they checked the system and found nothing. QT all fish is my philosophy.
 

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
91,536
Location
Southern California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It's comical when the " I won't QT fish because it is Mean to the Fish" argument is made, but they are ok with someone else being "mean" to the fish then buying it.

I've had more fish die while being QT'd at Dr reef than I have in my own QT's and I've cycled 5 times the amount of fish through my qt as I've bought from them.

Commercial quarantine sees HUGE loses.
 

EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal

Just another girl who likes fish
View Badges
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
13,102
Reaction score
19,540
Location
Spring, Texas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'd like to answer a variation of the question...
"What to do when I don't quarantine?". Answer, don't post here complaining that your livestock was wiped out, lol!

(Kidding, to a point. Obviously the majority of the community is here to help regardless, but be honest and admit you chose to take shortcuts and go from there ;) )
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
22,561
Reaction score
21,791
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Let me start off by saying that I have the ability to quarantine fish, but would much rather not. I know that it can be as easy as a 10 gallon, a HOB filter, some pieces of PVC pipe, and a heater. I know that it is somewhat cheap, and I know that you don't need a ton of space to quarantine. Why do I not want to do quarantine, if that's the case? Simple. I don't want to harm my fish any more than is absolutely necessary. From reading on this forum and browsing build threads, I see as many (if not more) deaths from stress, ammonia, jumping, and other quarantine-related issues than from disease. Stress in particular seems like a big one to me. How is a sterile environment filled with medications and PVC is a safer and more comfortable place than a display tank with rock, sand, and light? I would think that it would be the other way around. Even if it is possible to quarantine fish without physically harming them in the process, I still wouldn't like seeing the poor things scared out of their minds in such an unnatural and unfamiliar environment. I'd also like to avoid the frequent water changes/testing in a QT. That being settled, how can I keep fish from breaking out in disease without quarantine? The way I see it, my options are

1) Quarantining - See above.
2) Ordering pre-quarantined fish - Seems like a safer bet than quarantining fish myself, but I'd prefer to avoid the need to ship and the increased cost.
3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.
4) Just add fish - This would entail simply acquiring fish online or from an LFS and dropping them in. This seems to be where most of the horror stories about velvet/whitespot/brook wiping out whole tanks come from, but it would also be the most convenient solution.

Which of these would work best for me in my situation? I'm leaning towards ordering pre-quarantined, but that leaves me with only 3-4 vendors to order from, and a long delay in receiving fish. I could probably quarantine if I really need to, but it is definitely something I want to avoid. Is there anything else that would work? Thanks!
1, 2
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
22,561
Reaction score
21,791
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Let me start off by saying that I have the ability to quarantine fish, but would much rather not. I know that it can be as easy as a 10 gallon, a HOB filter, some pieces of PVC pipe, and a heater. I know that it is somewhat cheap, and I know that you don't need a ton of space to quarantine. Why do I not want to do quarantine, if that's the case? Simple. I don't want to harm my fish any more than is absolutely necessary. From reading on this forum and browsing build threads, I see as many (if not more) deaths from stress, ammonia, jumping, and other quarantine-related issues than from disease. Stress in particular seems like a big one to me. How is a sterile environment filled with medications and PVC is a safer and more comfortable place than a display tank with rock, sand, and light? I would think that it would be the other way around. Even if it is possible to quarantine fish without physically harming them in the process, I still wouldn't like seeing the poor things scared out of their minds in such an unnatural and unfamiliar environment. I'd also like to avoid the frequent water changes/testing in a QT. That being settled, how can I keep fish from breaking out in disease without quarantine? The way I see it, my options are

1) Quarantining - See above.
2) Ordering pre-quarantined fish - Seems like a safer bet than quarantining fish myself, but I'd prefer to avoid the need to ship and the increased cost.
3) Feeding whiteworms and fresh clams - On the surface appears to match what I am looking for, but I'd rather not culture whiteworms or spend a bunch of money on fresh seafood if possible.
4) Just add fish - This would entail simply acquiring fish online or from an LFS and dropping them in. This seems to be where most of the horror stories about velvet/whitespot/brook wiping out whole tanks come from, but it would also be the most convenient solution.

Which of these would work best for me in my situation? I'm leaning towards ordering pre-quarantined, but that leaves me with only 3-4 vendors to order from, and a long delay in receiving fish. I could probably quarantine if I really need to, but it is definitely something I want to avoid. Is there anything else that would work? Thanks!
Now before we have the Non-QT/QT debate - which will not happen _ I answered your question - to my opinion. Actually #4 is wrong - since - many fish are QT'd at RARE LFS.

Your original post is kind of odd to me. You say you have the ability to QT. IF so - DO IT. full stop. 2. There is not a lot of evidence that QT affects immunity. 3. There is no evidence that having PVC vs something else - is a problem. etc etc
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
22,561
Reaction score
21,791
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Now before we have the Non-QT/QT debate - which will not happen _ I answered your question - to my opinion. Actually #4 is wrong - since - many fish are QT'd at RARE LFS.

Your original post is kind of odd to me. You say you have the ability to QT. IF so - DO IT. full stop. 2. There is not a lot of evidence that QT affects immunity. 3. There is no evidence that having PVC vs something else - is a problem. etc etc
If you want to have a discussion as compared to the usual debate - there are multiple specifics - that need be answered
 

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
91,536
Location
Southern California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've got the respect for the honesty.

I think that EVERYONE who chooses to not QT fish, should have a full Emergency QT setup, Plan, and materials/medications on hand to be able to Treat your fish, When they get sick.

Outbreaks can happen to those of us that Do QT Also. My new tank is Fallow, CURRENTLY.

Im better set up to deal with a catastrophic outbreak than someone who does not quarantine.. That means more of my fish live. If you know the risks and you're going to gamble, Just have a plan for when the defecation hits the oscillation.
 
Back
Top