I really wish....

[MnFish1]

The "PRO" could be a bad choice long run, I just don't know. Just trying to throw out ideas to help with the OP's original question. I wouldn't want a system in place that would cause the user to be bombard or harrassed with a lot of questions. However, I do agree there should be something to help newer users get the right answers to their questions.

I'm surprised this thread has gotten so much traction. And - I kind of agree with the general comment in the OP - which was something along the lines of 'People shouldn't respond to threads if they don't have direct experience with the topic. To me this simple concept has somehow led to a heirarchical PRO system - concept - that is likely to cause far more problems that the issue brought up in the OP (IMO)

For me - this is a discussion forum. Whether I've used (stupid analogy) carbon for 6 months or 60 years - I may be a 'PRO' when it comes to carbon use - and my 'post' - seems like it should carry the same weight as the 'PRO'. I have had aquariums salt and fresh - for 40+ years - and I do a lot of things a lot of people would consider heresy. But - my methods work for me. As an aside - I've found out that the one thing that has made me more successful as a reefer is NOT adding every new 'device', 'chemical' or new 'tank saving method'. Also FWIW - I agree with the new upvoting system as the solution to this problem - but thats just my thought

 

[JCOLE]

I'm surprised this thread has gotten so much traction. And - I kind of agree with the general comment in the OP - which was something along the lines of 'People shouldn't respond to threads if they don't have direct experience with the topic. To me this simple concept has somehow led to a heirarchical PRO system - concept - that is likely to cause far more problems that the issue brought up in the OP (IMO)

For me - this is a discussion forum. Whether I've used (stupid analogy) carbon for 6 months or 60 years - I may be a 'PRO' when it comes to carbon use - and my 'post' - seems like it should carry the same weight as the 'PRO'. I have had aquariums salt and fresh - for 40+ years - and I do a lot of things a lot of people would consider heresy. But - my methods work for me. As an aside - I've found out that the one thing that has made me more successful as a reefer is NOT adding every new 'device', 'chemical' or new 'tank saving method'. Also FWIW - I agree with the new upvoting system as the solution to this problem - but thats just my thought

Why is that? Just asking because I would like to hear why it would cause problems? I don't see the issues so looking for people to point them out.

If you ask me I would love to be considered a "PRO" in any field of this hobby. I think people are taking this the wrong way. This isn't an exclusive club that will only have 2 "PRO'S" allowed. There could be hundreds of them for all I care.

I am the type of person that gives my all to everything I do and I won't stop until I consider myself good at it. In my field of work I would consider myself an expert. I wasn't at first but worked my way up and feel very proud. When I started back in the hobby I had a vision and that was to grow a successful SPS tank. I don't consider myself there yet but in a couple years, maybe. When that day comes and my tank is stocked full of Acro colonies then yes I would consider myself a "PRO" at that.

If you dont see a "PRO" next to their name doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them. Just take their advice for what is worth, which is where we are currently at. However, having some identification that this user knows what they are talking about in different areas of the hobby will help people remove doubt.

Again, I don't care about the "PRO" title that was just a suggestion. It could say "CAPTAIN OF EVERYTHING AWESOME" for all I care. I dont understand why this is such a big deal but it is ok to have an Expert badge for identification. Same concept.

As far as the upvote system. Are we talking about the same system as on RC? If so, we pretty much have that with the reaction score. If all we are doing is clicking like everytime someone post a funny meme then what amount of credibility is that?

 

[MnFish1]

Why is that? Just asking because I would like to hear why it would cause problems? I don't see the issues so looking for people to point them out.

If you ask me I would love to be considered a "PRO" in any field of this hobby. I think people are taking this the wrong way. This isn't an exclusive club that will only have 2 "PRO'S" allowed. There could be hundreds of them for all I care.

I am the type of person that gives my all to everything I do and I won't stop until I consider myself good at it. In my field of work I would consider myself an expert. I wasn't at first but worked my way up and feel very proud. When I started back in the hobby I had a vision and that was to grow a successful SPS tank. I don't consider myself there yet but in a couple years, maybe. When that day comes and my tank is stocked full of Acro colonies then yes I would consider myself a "PRO" at that.

If you dont see a "PRO" next to their name doesn't mean you shouldn't listen to them. Just take their advice for what is worth, which is where we are currently at. However, having some identification that this user knows what they are talking about in different areas of the hobby will help people remove doubt.

Again, I don't care about the "PRO" title that was just a suggestion. It could say "CAPTAIN OF EVERYTHING AWESOME" for all I care. I dont understand why this is such a big deal but it is ok to have an Expert badge for identification. Same concept.

As far as the upvote system. Are we talking about the same system as on RC? If so, we pretty much have that with the reaction score. If all we are doing is clicking like everytime someone post a funny meme then what amount of credibility is that?

Normally I am verbose - in this case its simple. I want to read all opinions - and judge for myself the validity - I font want a third parties opinion of who an expert is... thats it - no more no less

 

[JCOLE]

Normally I am verbose - in this case its simple. I want to read all opinions - and judge for myself the validity - I font want a third parties opinion of who an expert is... thats it - no more no less

I think that is the issue with what the OP is getting at. How can we expect new hobbyists to judge for themselves when they don't know other areas of the hobby to compare to. The more you are in the hobby the more you can weed out the false information.

 

[HuduVudu]

I think that is the issue with what the OP is getting at. How can we expect new hobbyists to judge for themselves when they don't know other areas of the hobby to compare to. The more you are in the hobby the more you can weed out the false information.

Everybody has to learn to do this no matter what hobby, job etc ... they are in.

 

[JCOLE]

Everybody has to learn to do this no matter what hobby, job etc ... they are in.

That's true. However, most hobbies have people/things you can learn from that is right there in front of you so you know what is being told to you is true. Take golf for example; if learning to swing a club, would you rather listen from someone in front of you showing you proof, or listen to someone over the phone? If you receive the info over the phone then you cannot see them and trusting that they are telling you everything correctly.

That's the point here. If someone tells a new hobbyist over the computer something and there really isn't proof then you have to take their word blindly.

I get it also. Patience needs to be taught as well and you shouldn't take everyone's word without researching it. However, Sometimes, something requires a quick response, and reseach and other commentors to chime in cannot wait.

That's why I see a little ridiculous badge might just help someone from doing something horribly wrong and killing their entire livestock and getting out of the hobby. I would rather have that any day than worry about hurting someone's ego.

It is what it is though. Cant please em all.......

 

[sawdonkey]

I don’t find this to be a big deal. I consider myself a “hardcore SPS guy” and I still ask questions here fairly often. My questions are often a bit in the weeds so someone’s not going to parrot “make sure you don’t bottom out your nutrients.”

Yeah, people with little experience sometimes answer, but you can usually tell who really knows what they’re talking about. It’s not like a noob is going to give you advice on tuning your calcium reactor. If you’re as advanced as owning a calcium reactor....you‘ve probably been in the game for a while.

 

[JCOLE]

I don’t find this to be a big deal. I consider myself a “hardcore SPS guy” and I still ask questions here fairly often. My questions are often a bit in the weeds so someone’s not going to parrot “make sure you don’t bottom out your nutrients.”

Yeah, people with little experience sometimes answer, but you can usually tell who really knows what they’re talking about. It’s not like a noob is going to give you advice on tuning your calcium reactor. If you’re as advanced as owning a calcium reactor....you‘ve probably been in the game for a while.

100% agree with you. However, I am not referring to the rare noob that is tuning calcium reactors. I am more referring to the threads I see where a 3 month old tank is getting common startup algae and crazy high doses of Phosguard,Chemiclean, etc are being recommended. I am talking triple+ doses. I see these type of responses all the time. Would be nice to help shed some light for the noobs.

 

[HuduVudu]

100% agree with you. However, I am not referring to the rare noob that is tuning calcium reactors. I am more referring to the threads I see where a 3 month old tank is getting common startup algae and crazy high doses of Phosguard,Chemiclean, etc are being recommended. I am talking triple+ doses. I see these type of responses all the time. Would be nice to help shed some light for the noobs.

Yah know another thing is that you keep talking about the noobs and how they are being screwed over. It is totally my experience in dealing with people in this hobby (or life for that matter), that the noobs are not innocent parties in all of this and in fact far from it. People do things for a myriad of reasons and most of the time they have ulterior motives for what they are doing. Providing a solution for their stated problem often results in derision from them because the solution is not addressing the real reason that they have for what they are doing. Some are more adept than others at addressing people's ulterior motives, but let's be clear those motives are always hidden.

If a noob wants to confirmation bias then no person on this planet will change his mind. My thought is why not let someone give it to him. You never know it might be important in some other area of the noob's life that they have their bias confirmed in their aquarium. Who am I to say or anyone else for that matter. This is why our First Amendment is so important. People flock to places where they are able to exchange ideas freely no matter how bad those ideas may seem.

 

[revhtree]

Hey Rev, I tagged you and the Mods in a couple other threads with some good ideas for possible features to enhance R2R, I hope you don’t miss them

Not really related to the thread but it would be awesome if we could change the topic of polls in our threads. I've mentioned it before but It would be really nice as we evolve our build threads if we could change polls along with that so members can vote on a new decision or issue going on currently in the build...

Hey bro can you start a new thread in the forum feedback and tag me so we can really discuss?

 

[JoshH]

Hey bro can you start a new thread in the forum feedback and tag me so we can really discuss?

Some possible new features?

Deleted.

www.reef2reef.com

Done ;Smuggrin

 

[JCOLE]

Lol. Never knew a little badge could cause so much drama. Might as well remove all badges on here then because most badges identify something for someone.

Expert Badge, Article Contributor, Reef Squad, etc

Dreaded "PRO" Badge

 

[HuduVudu]

I think badges are fine. It is kinda kewl because I know a little bit about you @JCOLE because of some of your badges. That makes dealing with you a little less akward.

 

[JCOLE]

I think badges are fine. It is kinda kewl because I know a little bit about you @JCOLE because of some of your badges. That makes dealing with you a little less akward.

I can promise you badges or no badges I am still pretty awkward. Lol.

 

[minus9]

@Chaswood79 you really kicked the hornets nest with this one. Hey, just kidding. I can't tell you how many times that I've responded to a post, only to delete it. Mainly because I felt like my response was unnecessary or it didn't add to the conversation, or it could've been misinterpreted by the OP or the new reefers without a much longer reply/explanation. Honestly, I just want to reply, "read a book!" or article, website, etc.... Essentially, you've should've read something on this topic by now, especially since you have a tank up and running. You're asking this question now? Really? But I guess that's why R2R is here, for all of us to learn, exchange ideas, challenge theories and explore this crazy and amazing hobby.
There were times I wanted to post my resume, in order to validate a response, but I didn't want to come across as arrogant or a know-it-all. I would never consider myself an expert in anything, mostly because there are very few people who actually are experts, but that's my personal belief and shouldn't reflect on those who are extremely knowledgeable in their given field.
I have a build thread, but it shouldn't be the criteria for my reefing knowledge, just a place to show whoever, some of the things I've done with one particular tank. I find that I do more reading than posting here, because after 40+ years, I'm still learning and exploring this hobby. I will never stop learning about this hobby, because it's an evolving hobby and it's our attempt at keeping nature in a glass box, which is quite crazy. I totally agree with your original post, I kinda want to call people out on some things, but I'm not about to increase the negatively, especially here, but I do think that some people need a quick lesson in humility though. But this isn't the place to do it. I left another forum, just because I couldn't stand the stupid arguing, this vs that piece of equipment, method or whatever.
See, I'm not sure what I'm even saying in this post now? Oh well, time for an adult beverage. Happy reefing!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

@Chaswood79 you really kicked the hornets nest with this one. Hey, just kidding. I can't tell you how many times that I've responded to a post, only to delete it. Mainly because I felt like my response was unnecessary or it didn't add to the conversation, or it could've been misinterpreted by the OP or the new reefers without a much longer reply/explanation. Honestly, I just want to reply, "read a book!" or article, website, etc.... Essentially, you've should've read something on this topic by now, especially since you have a tank up and running. You're asking this question now? Really? But I guess that's why R2R is here, for all of us to learn, exchange ideas, challenge theories and explore this crazy and amazing hobby.
There were times I wanted to post my resume, in order to validate a response, but I didn't want to come across as arrogant or a know-it-all. I would never consider myself an expert in anything, mostly because there are very few people who actually are experts, but that's my personal belief and shouldn't reflect on those who are extremely knowledgeable in their given field.
I have a build thread, but it shouldn't be the criteria for my reefing knowledge, just a place to show whoever, some of the things I've done with one particular tank. I find that I do more reading than posting here, because after 40+ years, I'm still learning and exploring this hobby. I will never stop learning about this hobby, because it's an evolving hobby and it's our attempt at keeping nature in a glass box, which is quite crazy. I totally agree with your original post, I kinda want to call people out on some things, but I'm not about to increase the negatively, especially here, but I do think that some people need a quick lesson in humility though. But this isn't the place to do it. I left another forum, just because I couldn't stand the stupid arguing, this vs that piece of equipment, method or whatever.
See, I'm not sure what I'm even saying in this post now? Oh well, time for an adult beverage. Happy reefing!

Time for an adult beverage now?? I’m way ahead of you

 

[SeaDweller]

Idk. All I got from this thread is Zeovit and add bacteria. So, I guess I’ll do that.

screw Sps. Ugly anyway.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I personally think any “expert” badges should be reserved for people who’ve earned them like Dr Randy Holmes Farley etc.

As for the original intent of this thread, Socratic wisdom and Socratic ignorance are alive and well in todays society, our current events are living proof of that. It is frustrating to witness, especially when you’re someone who chooses the path of wisdom over speaking out of ignorance. It’s even more frustrating that those who don’t know what they are talking about tend to be the most outspoken and prevalent posters.

I think ego tends to creep into this hobby more than it should, one of the most important things to remember is there’s many lifetimes worth of learning available in this endeavor and really there’s always an opportunity to learn something new, and it’s not always from someone who’s an old hat, or experienced reefer. Though that isn’t diminishing that more experienced knowledgeable reefers do have more to offer usually.

Extinguishing sharing, in any form, is really limiting the opportunity for all of those involved to learn, even the people parroting “bad advice“ or advice that is “inexperienced” is doing the community a disservice in my opinion, as people tend to learn more from making mistakes or being wrong than they do from being right all the time. Allowing more experienced reefers to correct that advice serves more than just the initial poster, but helps all those involved (remember for everyone who posts, there are probably 100 more thinking the same thing in the background).

I also understand the frustration when someone who is very knowledgeable in their field gets effectively disregarded by another member who doesn’t know any better. Sometimes it takes more than one person to effect a change in someone else’s thought processes when they are incorrect.

I’ve been heavily involved in this hobby both professionally and personally since the late 1980’s and there is one segment of the population that hasn’t changed in all of those years, and they can be the most frustrating of all. They are the folks that are fishing for the answer that they want to hear. 300 experts can tell them the correct, proper, truthful, scientific information and they will go with the 1 guy who chimes in with the completely false information, just because it’s what they want to hear. In these cases there is nothing that any badge, or label will achieve to solve or fix this problem.

I’m not wild about the prospect of upvoting personally, but I’m also not someone who’s in charge of the show either. I think it’s going to be more popularity than help with factuality.

As for a “Pro” badge or label, being a ”professional” doesn’t really speak to credibility or knowledge in my experience. I’ve met a lot of Pros in a lot of walks of life (especially this industry) that leave a lot to be desired.

Personally I help people when I can, because it’s an aspect of this hobby that I truly enjoy, and it’s a role I have played for several decades now. I want to see people be successful and have beautiful tanks so that I can look at them and learn from them too. This is an important community and it should be nurtured even when some of the ideas or members become frustrating.

Just my $.02 (It’s worth what you paid for it)

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

@Chaswood79 you really kicked the hornets nest with this one. Hey, just kidding. I can't tell you how many times that I've responded to a post, only to delete it. Mainly because I felt like my response was unnecessary or it didn't add to the conversation, or it could've been misinterpreted by the OP or the new reefers without a much longer reply/explanation. Honestly, I just want to reply, "read a book!" or article, website, etc.... Essentially, you've should've read something on this topic by now, especially since you have a tank up and running. You're asking this question now? Really? But I guess that's why R2R is here, for all of us to learn, exchange ideas, challenge theories and explore this crazy and amazing hobby.
There were times I wanted to post my resume, in order to validate a response, but I didn't want to come across as arrogant or a know-it-all. I would never consider myself an expert in anything, mostly because there are very few people who actually are experts, but that's my personal belief and shouldn't reflect on those who are extremely knowledgeable in their given field.
I have a build thread, but it shouldn't be the criteria for my reefing knowledge, just a place to show whoever, some of the things I've done with one particular tank. I find that I do more reading than posting here, because after 40+ years, I'm still learning and exploring this hobby. I will never stop learning about this hobby, because it's an evolving hobby and it's our attempt at keeping nature in a glass box, which is quite crazy. I totally agree with your original post, I kinda want to call people out on some things, but I'm not about to increase the negatively, especially here, but I do think that some people need a quick lesson in humility though. But this isn't the place to do it. I left another forum, just because I couldn't stand the stupid arguing, this vs that piece of equipment, method or whatever.
See, I'm not sure what I'm even saying in this post now? Oh well, time for an adult beverage. Happy reefing!

Just think. If the tee box Sunday morning wasn’t so backed up this would of never happened.

 

[Rick5]

Is this problem as rampant as you folks seem to suggest? Maybe I haven’t picked up on it or maybe I’m a horrible SPS keeper. The only bad advice I generally see being given is the result of differing philosophies due to success with a a reefer’s own tank/methodology. The example that comes to mind is the member who responds to a “help my SPS are dying thread” with “Alk of 10 and low nutrients and dry rock is fine. That isn’t your issue.”

However, I’m the same guy who couldn’t meangfully contribute to an “ID my acro thread” this week so I identified the guy’s fish instead.

I’m also thinking about adding a line to my signature that says “Please don’t freak out in response to my post.”