Ich or velvet without flashing

[01xp]

Hey all so I'm at the end of my rope this will be my last attempt to stay in this happy. Anyway do to circumstances I needed to cut my usual 60day qt to 15days after completing a copper treatment. The two fish are a purple tang and two spot bristletooth. They both are showing white spots but they went through copper and didn't show any symptoms in the qt tank, only after display I know I don't have anything in the display. Well neither are flashing and both are eating like cows I started dosing polyp lab reef medic to help. You think ich or velvet could have survived copper? Will reef medic help? I can't set the qt tank up again. Any advice will help thanks

 

[blaxsun]

I had a fish that managed to slip through QT/copper with velvet and infect the rest of the tank. While apparently very rare, there are apparently some strains that are very resistant or immune.

While the fish initially seemed fine, it did quickly pale and start flashing. I was able to save about 1/3 of my fish with Medic and an oversized UV. My fish were (for the most part) very healthy prior. This has been my only experience with velvet to-date.

 

[nereefpat]

What copper product did you use, and at what concentration?

15 days, theoretically, should be long enough. But there are lots of things that could go wrong.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Can you confirm timelines here? From what I understand, you suffered from an outbreak of a parasitic disease, treated with copper, and then quarantined for a further fifteen days. Questions:

Did the fish show white spots in the QT, or did you return them to the display?

If you put them back in the display, for how long was the display fallow?

How long did you run copper, with what product did you do this, and at what strength?

Are they ich spots, or could they be mucus plugs?

Pictures?

 

[ThePlummer]

I had a fish that managed to slip through QT/copper with velvet and infect the rest of the tank. While apparently very rare, there are apparently some strains that are very resistant or immune.

While the fish initially seemed fine, it did quickly pale and start flashing. I was able to save about 1/3 of my fish with Medic and an oversized UV. My fish were (for the most part) very healthy prior. This has been my only experience with velvet to-date.

Resistant strains of velvet can NOT survive 4-36 hour TTM method of QT... And the up side, No medication is necessary.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

. They both are showing white spots but they went through copper and didn't show any symptoms in the qt tank, only after display I know I don't have anything in the display.

IF you didn't have something in the display, and those two fish were moved to the display, you now have whatever is was, in the display.

 

[Utubereefer]

Do you use UV in your tank? Maybe you could try a cleaner wrasse too

 

[01xp]

Can you confirm timelines here? From what I understand, you suffered from an outbreak of a parasitic disease, treated with copper, and then quarantined for a further fifteen days. Questions:

Did the fish show white spots in the QT, or did you return them to the display?

If you put them back in the display, for how long was the display fallow?

How long did you run copper, with what product did you do this, and at what strength?

Are they ich spots, or could they be mucus plugs?

Pictures?

No the 2 fish were purchased new and qt for 15 days in cupramine at therapeutic levels.I never had any sickness in my tank normally qt for 60days. Something came up and had to shut down the qt tank that's why there was only a 15 day qt

 

[01xp]

IF you didn't have something in the display, and those two fish were moved to the display, you now have whatever is was, in the display.

That's the problem I'm facing now

 

[01xp]

Do you use UV in your tank? Maybe you could try a cleaner wrasse too

No uv on this tank. I had a coralvue but it rusted on the inside. If this tank dies I'm done so I'm not investing in a uv

 

[01xp]

What copper product did you use, and at what concentration?

15 days, theoretically, should be long enough. But there are lots of things that could go wrong.

Cupramine at therapeutic level .50ppm

 

[Utubereefer]

No uv on this tank. I had a coralvue but it rusted on the inside. If this tank dies I'm done so I'm not investing in a uv

I got a cheap uv off eBay. Just drop it in the sump. I put it in a pvc tube and my reactors feed it. Like $25 tops.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

That's the problem I'm facing now

I'm sorry to say it but you really should to go back to square one. Fallow tank, and a full treatment protocol on all fish.

 

[01xp]

I'm sorry to say it but you really should to go back to square one. Fallow tank, and a full treatment protocol on all fish.

I don't have any qt filters or tank anymore a friend is using it while they're new tank is being made. So that's not a option.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I don't have any qt filters or tank anymore a friend is using it while they're new tank is being made. So that's not a option.

Then you need to figure it out. You have fish in your care that you are responsible for. If you need to go buy a 75 g aquarium and transfer some cycled media, and treat the fish, then so be it. You took this on. You need to see it though.

Doing nothing when you suspect velvet should not be an option.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey all so I'm at the end of my rope this will be my last attempt to stay in this happy. Anyway do to circumstances I needed to cut my usual 60day qt to 15days after completing a copper treatment. The two fish are a purple tang and two spot bristletooth. They both are showing white spots but they went through copper and didn't show any symptoms in the qt tank, only after display I know I don't have anything in the display. Well neither are flashing and both are eating like cows I started dosing polyp lab reef medic to help. You think ich or velvet could have survived copper? Will reef medic help? I can't set the qt tank up again. Any advice will help thanks

Flashing is not a primary symptom of either marine ich or velvet, so a lack of that activity isn't diagnostic, except that the fish likely don't have flukes (which does cause flashing).

Ich and velvet won't survive a proper copper treatment, but what constitutes "proper" is key. You need to dose amine-based copper (copper power or coppersafe) for 30 days, using a good copper test kit, running at full dose. Cupramine is a bit harsher and some people dose that for only 14 days, but I would still go 30 with that.

Not all white spots are ich - tangs in particular can develop white mucus spots from being treated with copper. Watch the spots - if they are in the same position on the fish for more than 36 hours, then it likely isn't ich. If the spots come and go, then more likely to be ich.

I'd skip the polyp lab medic, copper is more effective.

Jay

 

[01xp]

Thanks Jay. I'll look at them better and report back

 

[01xp]

Well today is just about Tuesday I've been using the reef medic both tangs and clowns are still alive and eating very well. The concerning thing is the two spot tang just decided to start swimming into the pwerhead. I've had them both in the tank for almost 3 weeks now if it was velvet it would have shown and killed by now right? He's breathing normal just swimming into the gyre.Ich should have killed by now? I think I'm being paranoid. Cause if this tank fails I'm done call me crazy.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well today is just about Tuesday I've been using the reef medic both tangs and clowns are still alive and eating very well. The concerning thing is the two spot tang just decided to start swimming into the pwerhead. I've had them both in the tank for almost 3 weeks now if it was velvet it would have shown and killed by now right? He's breathing normal just swimming into the gyre.Ich should have killed by now? I think I'm being paranoid. Cause if this tank fails I'm done call me crazy.

Swimming into the current without rapid breathing may just be a behavioral thing, but a lot of people miss rapid breathing, they don't recognize it. If the tank doesn't have a protein skimmer or other aeration on it, you should add aeration, just to ensure it isn't a low dissolved oxygen issue.

Jay