Indonesia Situation
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No need to get heated or angry at each other. If you believe the reefs will be gone then let's do something to protect whats left. I propose mariculture/aquaculture is the answer or at least all we have as a realistic controllable option. Even if, as I contend, the reefs are not going to be gone soon, it is still the correct thing to do, at least politically correct. I've been doing it for 20 years and don't need to prove or defend myself to anyone. BTW, I'm not an expert at anything, just a guy doing something and trying to not be a whiner and complainer, at least not all the time
This might be an odd request but i actually wish that more corals when purchased listed where they were harvested. I would love my home reef to be a tiny coral seed bank of a particular outcrop.
Dr. Dendrostein
Marine fish monthly
Off track
2.8lbs, cowboy steak
2.8lbs, cowboy steak
OP
OP
Off track
2.8lbs, cowboy steak
Good job guys, this thread has officially jumped the shark ;Blackeye
Dr. Dendrostein
Marine fish monthly
Is that lame?
Muttley000
Valuable Member
I've been following this thread and enjoy the debate almost as I appreciate the info the OP has been sharing. I personally feel the reefs have survived much worse that humankind (at least 1 massive extinction event and countless hot cycles and ice ages) and will be here long after we are gone mostly because they are just programmed to survive, vs us fighting each other over how we will survive. I too believe mariculture is the way forward, and hope eventually the powers that be will at least see value in injecting new genes into the mariculture business at a somewhat regular rate.
oddomatic
Community Member
Yep....There might be problems when pictures of wonderful steaks start showing up in a thread about an international crisis threatening our industry, lol. But, on the other hand, I think we could all use some levity at this point gentlemen.
Dr. Dendrostein
Marine fish monthly
This how bad the coral ban is. Im grilling steaks to keep busy.
Since you said you appreciate the debate, I’ll give you a little bit of info. That’s a nice thought about the corals’ adaptability, and I really wish it was true, or even plausible, but at the risk of sounding, as I was called earlier, boorish, it’s sadly and demonstrably very much not the case. The difference between past climate/environmental change events and those of the anthropocene (the current epoch, named for our influence over the environment) is the current and forecasted incredible rate of change and the compound nature of the threats. Put simply, what took tens of thousands of years in the past is happening over a couple short centuries, organisms are not genetically “programmed” to survive geologically rapid changes (or successfully “migrate”) if they evolved in a relatively stable environment, although they do have the ability to adapt within a certain range of parameters. The thing is, genetic adaptations in coral cannot possibly keep pace with anything like what is occurring with the pace of even temperature change alone (as can be seen in both laboratory experiments and in the absolutely massive bleaching events of the past several years). Add to that sedimentation, over fishing, pollution, and carbonic acidification, and you have a recipe for the presently unfolding geologically rapid disaster.
That all said, I know some will want to shoot the messenger, and that’s fine. I understand that cognitive dissonance and the desire to protect egos are extremely powerful psychic drives. Unfortunately the fact that what I’m writing is hard for some to understand, or that in writing it I come off as insufferable (or worse), does not alter the veracity of what I’m attempting to communicate whatsoever, and I’d be remiss not to at least attempt to share what I know, flawed as my approach may be.
OP
OP
One of my contacts in Indonesia told me today that a significant meeting is scheduled for next week. I have no independent confirmation since there have never been any official updates. Supposedly according to this contact a pathway is in sight. We'll see, been down this road a few times. If this is another rumor at least the details sound good. All the best to all concerned parties.
I think with this update I'll request to close this thread since it has degenerated into demeaning or irrelevant comments to the original intent. If anyone wishes to explore their opinions there are many other forums on this board where you can do so to your heart's content.
I think with this update I'll request to close this thread since it has degenerated into demeaning or irrelevant comments to the original intent. If anyone wishes to explore their opinions there are many other forums on this board where you can do so to your heart's content.
mfinn
likes zoanthids
Hopefully re-open the thread when updates are available.
OP
OP
As per my previous update, the exporters association had the meeting yesterday with the parliament.
More details emerged from my contacts that attended the meeting. This is what they had to say: the shut down started in May when a letter was issued by the local Fisheries Ministry in Bali and Mataram that they would no longer be issuing health certificates (HC) (the reason for this was not given to me, but I think we understand the situation). As we know, shipments can not get on a plane without the HC. No official letter was ever issued from the main Fisheries Ministry top officials. At the parliment meeting it was questioned as to why no top level official statement had ever been issued and the question was not resolved. Parliament stated that the original letter was to be withdrawn and exports were to be allowed immediately. Folks there that have had no income since May must have felt relieved, but wait a minute. However, no Ministers were present at the meeting and it is still unknown if HC will be issued. It's all just too fresh to know for sure.
Some of my contacts are moving forward with obtaining CITES permits and feel they could begin shipping with 2 weeks. Others are waiting until there is an official statement from the Fisheries Ministry. Others say that collection of corals and transport to Jakarta is still prohibited. Collection is done quite some distance from Jakarta which is simply the hub where corals are gathered to be exported, permits are required to collect and ship within the country as well as to export out of the country.
So, it's still as clear as mud. Rumors still abound and even many exporters are putting out conflicting info, just as they have been throughout the shut down.
Social media has been abuzz that the shut down is over. Maybe so, maybe not, we don't know for sure. When I asked exporters directly if they could ship now, the answer was no they can't. Certainly there is some progress and there is now a light showing from the end of the tunnel, we hope.
If we can keep on topic I'll keep this thread open to give further updates.
Thanks you for keeping us up to date.. I had not heard anything.
To those posting garbage go to the lounge and post things that do not belong here.
Maybe a mod could delete that stuff.
OP
OP
One other thing to keep in mind. When I do these shipments from Indonesia, I must put together at a minimum 600kg of product to ship, this is required by the airline I use, each ailrline is different. To maximize freight costs and other fees that remain the same despite shipment size, I fill an airline container. That is usually 45 boxes of livestock, can be 1000-1200 corals. Shipments of this size filled with premium hand picked corals cost many tens of thousands of dollars, you could buy a really nice new car for the cost. These funds are forwarded to the exporter before the shipment is packed. I'm not sure I'd want to be one of the first Guinea pig to try a shipment only to have no HC issued and my money is sitting in someone else's bank account.
Also, plesse keep in mind the info in my previous post came from someone in the meeting, since I was not there personally I can not vouch for the accuracy. However, I have seen some documents. Translation and subtleties may make a difference though.
Also, plesse keep in mind the info in my previous post came from someone in the meeting, since I was not there personally I can not vouch for the accuracy. However, I have seen some documents. Translation and subtleties may make a difference though.
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