Indonesia Situation

[cmcoker]

Heard on the radio that 20 Indonesian officials leaving a conference were on the flight out of Jakarta that crashed into the sea. Have you heard any on this?

 

[DSC reef]

Heard on the radio that 20 Indonesian officials leaving a conference were on the flight out of Jakarta that crashed into the sea. Have you heard any on this?

That's crazy. I heard on the news that a new Boeing crashed

 

[shred5]

Still no word on when or if exports will be happening again.

As mentioned earlier, the conference was held in Bali and the Jakarta Post has an article about the activities: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/...n-every-little-bold-action-counts-jokowi.html

I haven't heard whether corals, cultured or otherwise, were discussed, but by what I see in the article it seems that the general tone does not sound promising for coral exports.

I have gotten several reports of supposed coral smuggling into the US. It seems some accusations have been made that corals are being smuggled in with live fish shipments. I have no firsthand knowledge of such activities, but it seems some in Indonesia are seeing Facebook and other posts by some vendors touting Indonesian corals for sale and that these posts lead them to either believe or confirm their suspicions that smuggling is occurring. This may be a total overreaction to these posts or it could really be happening. It shows the fragile state of disposition of some exporters since they have had no income for more than 7 months. I have been inundated with inquiries from exporters begging me to take fish shipments just so they can have some income. Unfortunately for them I recently decided to stock only tank-raised fish since the quality of wild caught fish has declined so much in recent years due to cyanide collection, rampant diseases, and poor handling, IMO.

If in fact coral smuggling is occurring it would be extremely foolish for those involved since huge fines and federal prison time would await them and surely such practices if found out would permanently end any possibility of reopening exports.

Rumors abound that Australia is considering restrictions or ending coral exports since the closure of Fiji and Indonesia has put such a huge demand on Aussie corals. I have no confirmation whether such rumors are at all true, but the rumor mill keeps churning them out.

Propagation of corals at our facility keeps going strong, although IME the general reefkeeping hobbyist is still mostly unaware of the circumstances surrounding the actual origin and acquisition of the corals they seek for their aquariums. There's a huge number, the vast majority, of marine aquarium hobbyists that never come on these forums or attend any swaps or conferences and are unaware of this issue. We, and I'm sure many, LFS owners encounter such hobbyists every day. I engage in conversation with them about this issue and many folks that come into our shop are completely oblivious.

You would think the exporters would be making up some of the difference on fish sales. Since Hawaii ban fish prices have risen. Prices will continue to rise as permits expire.


I have seen vendors on R2R say they have saying they are selling coral Indonesian corals. My guess these corals we are sing list as Indonesian are not and they are lying.

 

[BradB]

Liveaquaria lists Indonesian mariculture on divers den. Not recommending them or saying anything other than they posted this on their website, but if they were smuggling, I'd think we wouldn't see Indonesia listed prominently.

 

[dodgerblew]

Dr. Mac, Is there anybody involved in the mariculture practice with the eloquence of say, yourself, at this conference defending and supporting the practice of mariculture perhaps opening the eyes of these few with so much power to how this practice doesn't affect the reefs at all? Why not have designated "seed areas" of a particular reef with major restrictions and quotas on amount of coral seeds they make take, although I hate to say it, at a price and these areas would only being open for a certain amount of time and then allowing the reef to heal and regrow itself. This would also allow marine biologists to actually track and measure the numbers of how much and how fast they grow back determining when this particular area can open up again, similar to deer or salmon season. The mariculturists can then grow out these seedlings into more mother colonies for their practice. These seed areas can be located in different areas with different species types and open at different times, again similar to a hunting season. The available coral species may not be as diverse but it seems like it would certainly sustain the industry. I'm sure poaching would still be an issue but it will always be an issue no matter what.

I'm so saddened to tune in the 11:00 news last night to see the Indonesia plane crash leading off. It certainly put my pouting and bitterness of the World Series into perspective. This country needs a break from these natural and man made disasters. Praying Gods hand, peace and comfort into every area of this tragedy.

 

[shred5]

Liveaquaria lists Indonesian mariculture on divers den. Not recommending them or saying anything other than they posted this on their website, but if they were smuggling, I'd think we wouldn't see Indonesia listed prominently.

I would say LA is not smuggling themselves and I bet most places do not even know where their corals come from, they order off a list.
They also could be labeled as such to sell at higher prices and not even from Indonesia.
They also have a large quarantine there, I have been to the WI facility lots of times. At this point I doubt there are any in quarantine.

It is also possible to have put some aside to see where things were going because you could charge more if the ban went on.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

I'm not accusing anyone of smuggling, just passing on what several exporters have told me, they have themselves convinced, but can be many other explanations about the corals being seen.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Are there any efforts similar to how Correlophus ciliatus was collected from New Caledonia several decades ago?

Researchers were permitted to collect specimens, and initial funds from creating captive breeding lines helped pay for research of the species?

This species is a very common herp in the hobby but are 100% captive bred from these lines from 3 decades ago since after this collection was closed again.
Species is still being investigated for cites status but for the time being somewhat a success story.

Perhaps our own backyard would be the best location for a setup like this.

IE-
Efforts for repairing the Caribbean partially funded by selling a portion of its cultured corals to the wholesale market.

I read all of these articles on researchers experimenting with spawning, mariculture etc, all lack a long term funding stream. Today a government, a university pays for it, once that grant is over will the work continue?

 

[Sea MunnKey]

All in due time my friend.

Hhhmmmm ... I wonder o_O

 

[Hogan]

This is from CNN

https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/lion-air-plane-crash-updates-intl/index.html

 

[oddomatic]

Any news? Haven’t heard anything since the Our Ocean Conference?

 

[Mark Gray]

If they can't collect it and can't ship it then building a facility is irrelevant. Hard corals are considered endangered animals and require CITES permits and local permits to collect and transport.

I'm in the process of going to another Island and starting a farm there, with the full support of the government-that is the real key to long term success. I did it 12 years ago in the Solomon Islands, 8 years ago in French Polynesia, and over the last couple years in Indonesia, all eventually failed due to unstable or uncooperative governments. Will have to see how this new adventure plays out. It takes commitment, time, and money, for sure doesn't just happen on its own and keeping it going is the real challenge.

Wow I hope and pray this works out, If you need any help please let me know very fascinated and I travel lol

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Not much happening of late, no good news. Some reports to me contend that exports while not happening now still might in the future but the process to opening up is slow. I was sent copies of some of the paperwork that exporters are submitting and questionnaires they are answering. All of that might be real and a pathway forward or might just be bureaucratic feel-good mumbo jumbo.

I am still hearing rumors about alleged smuggling of corals in fish shipments coming into the US, but have no direct knowledge of this. There is definitive proof of smuggling, but these incidents have occured with corals going to Jakarta or in one incident to Singapore allegedly. Such types of smuggling have probably gone on for years and seem to me to be more on a personal level and maybe not on a large commercial scale, but that is just my perception based on photots of corals being smuggled in luggage. These attempts have been discovered, who knows how many others were successful. It angers me to think that possibly some day the only way we will get some of these corals again might be only through black market channels.

http://makassar.tribunnews.com/2018...galkan-pengiriman-koral-ilegal-tujuan-jakarta

I was sent these by one of the exporters, I don't know who took them, but allegedly they show seized corals attempted to be smuggled from Sulawesi. Needless to say, any attempts at smuggling are obviously foolish and when caught you face automatic prison time.

 

[pga7602]

They look dried. What kind of corals can live out of water for so long.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

I mentioned earlier about Susi confiscating and blowing up ships fishing illegally in Indonesian waters. So much for saving the reefs.

 

[Sachin Yeshwante]

Any update guys, will there be export of corals from indo or, Susi is going to permanent ban on export?

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Any update guys, will there be export of corals from indo or, Susi is going to permanent ban on export?

Officially there is silence.

Supposedly there is paperwork and new rules being discussed so most exporters feel there is a chance some day exports may open again but no one is really talking officially right now.

Unofficial rumors say that exports may open by the end of the year for cultured corals but supposedly just so they can use up existing quota and then shut again until new rules are enacted. Been hearing this rumor for a while, I'll believe it when the first shipment roles out.

 

[siggy]

Whens the next national elections there

 

[JaimeAdams]

Whens the next national elections there

I could be wrong but I want to say April

 

[reefwiser]

Just read on Koji Wada's facebook page that Indo has banned fish exports since the 6th of December similar paperwork situation with Corals.

You're going to stop until the fish next time?
The export fish export from Indonesia has stopped from the 6th. I hear it's a glitch that occurred in the exchange of health certificate and customs computer system issued by the Marine Fisheries Bureau, but is it true? The Minister of susi has a rumor that he wants to put a cites on the ornamental fish. This would be a huge mess if you stopped until the fish, right? You know, because there are people who are smuggling fish and false coral, aren't they? In any case, it's trouble. Let's hope it's just a system disorder!