Introducing the Oceamo Organo-MS Analysis

[Dan_P]

Is it possible that Aspartic Acid, Glycine and Glutaminic Acid have other properties (like binding to another element) so they can stay much better/surivive/measurable in the water column?

https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium...-and-biochemical-mechanisms-of-calcification/

I can’t rule out this intriguing idea.

Another idea is that the concentrations of aspartic and glutamic acids reflect the overall growth phase of the bacteria population. For example, higher concentrations could suggest a stationary growth phase where slower growth and dying bacteria result in the release of these two amino acids.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it possible that Aspartic Acid, Glycine and Glutaminic Acid have other properties (like binding to another element) so they can stay much better/surivive/measurable in the water column?

https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium...-and-biochemical-mechanisms-of-calcification/

Not really. Aspartic will bind to calcium carbonate, but that does not make it stay in the water better.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can’t rule out this intriguing idea.

Another idea is that the concentrations of aspartic and glutamic acids reflect the overall growth phase of the bacteria population. For example, higher concentrations could suggest a stationary growth phase where slower growth and dying bacteria result in the release of these two amino acids.

Every amino acid will have different uptake capacity/lower limit of uptake concentration that will vary by organism. I personally do not think we can derive much useful info from the comparative levels of different amino acids, unless one is dosing and trying to maintain some target level.

 

[Christoph]

One thought about the plasticisers - I use the plastic syringe from the sample package and I followed the instructions for use.

@Christoph has you investigate if the brand of plastic syringe and sample tubes you use can leak any of those plasticisers your test report?

Hi Lasse,

a very good point. Every material the sample "touches" can (and will) add some chemicals to it (syringe, vial, filter). We have tested our materials and do know their "leaching profile" - the quantitative data is obtained from blank samples: pure water that is treated the same as a "real" sample. Only if the concentration of substances in the sample is > 3x the concentration in the blank, these will be reported.

Unfortunately its not possible to conduct a "contamination free" sampling routine, so this is standard practice in non-targeted screenings.

The sampling equipment does not leach Diethylphthalate, so there is another common source in the hobby.

All the best, Christoph

 

[Lasse]

Hi Lasse,

a very good point. Every material the sample "touches" can (and will) add some chemicals to it (syringe, vial, filter). We have tested our materials and do know their "leaching profile" - the quantitative data is obtained from blank samples: pure water that is treated the same as a "real" sample. Only if the concentration of substances in the sample is > 3x the concentration in the blank, these will be reported.

Unfortunately its not possible to conduct a "contamination free" sampling routine, so this is standard practice in non-targeted screenings.

The sampling equipment does not leach Diethylphthalate, so there is another common source in the hobby.

All the best, Christoph

Thanks for the clarification

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dan_P]

Every amino acid will have different uptake capacity/lower limit of uptake concentration that will vary by organism. I personally do not think we can derive much useful info from the comparative levels of different amino acids, unless one is dosing and trying to maintain some target level.

I agree. Unless you can follow the concentration trends for a particular amino acid pool, it seems impossible to infer what the bacteria are doing.

 

[Marc Pardon]

Not really. Aspartic will bind to calcium carbonate, but that does not make it stay in the water better.

Will this be one of the organic substances which we remove from the watercolumn the most when we use calciumcarbonate to "clean" the water? Or could using calcium carbonate for "cleaning" be a carrier for this element to stay better in the water column?

 

[Dan_P]

Not really. Aspartic will bind to calcium carbonate, but that does not make it stay in the water better.

Obviously fishing…

What about an amino acid being “intimately” associated with organic particulates that are released from the particulate by the shear forces generated when sterile filtration is performed before analysis. For this to work, there would have to be something special about aspartic and glutamic acids, like a cell vesicle filled with the amino acid.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Will this be one of the organic substances which we remove from the watercolumn the most when we use calciumcarbonate to "clean" the water? Or could using calcium carbonate for "cleaning" be a carrier for this element to stay better in the water column?

It would decrease aspartic acid in the water and make it less available to organisms. Whether that is any issue, I do not know.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Obviously fishing…

What about an amino acid being “intimately” associated with organic particulates that are released from the particulate by the shear forces generated when sterile filtration is performed before analysis. For this to work, there would have to be something special about aspartic and glutamic acids, like a cell vesicle filled with the amino acid.

I do not think that any amino acids will appreciably stick to organic matter in seawater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I got my Oceamo test kit package today. Will be sending it out soon. :)

 

[Dan_P]

FWIW, I got my Oceamo test kit package today. Will be sending it out soon. :)

I wonder whether your relatively new system will have an amino acid pool similar to the collection of reports we have been viewing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wonder whether your relatively new system will have an amino acid pool similar to the collection of reports we have been viewing.

We will see. I don't dose any. :)

 

[Dan_P]

We will see. I don't dose any. :)

I don’t either. That’s at least two data points for no dosing. I don’t think dosing affects the amino acid pool.

 

[Dan_P]

FWIW, I got my Oceamo test kit package today. Will be sending it out soon. :)

I’m bored. No new data now for two days. Have you sent in your Organo-MS sample yet?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m bored. No new data now for two days. Have you sent in your Organo-MS sample yet?

No. I am preparing to the tank the way I want the data to reflect. Not too long and not too soon after skimmer and GAC changes. I cleaned the skimmer (and tossed a gallon of collected skimmate) and replaced the GAC yesterday. I will take a sample for Oceamo testing about 3 days from now. :)

 

[Dan_P]

No. I am preparing to the tank the way I want the data to reflect. Not too long and not too soon after skimmer and GAC changes. I cleaned the skimmer (and tossed a gallon of collected skimmate) and replaced the GAC yesterday. I will take a sample for Oceamo testing about 3 days from now. :)

Interesting. I wonder if the GAC change is going to deplete the plasticizers.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting. I wonder if the GAC change is going to deplete the plasticizers.

Might. :)

 

[EnterName]

Taking a look at my analysis results most parameters are measured in µg/L which makes sense. But marine toxins are measured in "units" and the untargeted analysis is measured in "counts". Can someone explain what's actually measured here? Are we talking µmol in the total sample or something along those lines?

 

[Christoph]

Hi,

this is easy to explain:

Dibutyl maleate appears in the non-targeted screening section of the report. These are “surprise findings” in your sample, and we do not have calibrations for these compounds. For that reason, we cannot provide concentration data — only the detector response (i.e., the signal counts). This allows comparisons between tanks or between samples, but only on a relative, not absolute, basis.

This will change in the future, as we are collaborating with a Germany-based startup that uses a machine-learning algorithm to estimate concentrations from non-targeted screening data. These values will not be as precise as those in the targeted section, but they will still be very useful for evaluating whether a level might be problematic.

Regarding palytoxin, no commercially available (or affordable) standard with a defined concentration exists. We have calibrated for palytoxin, but there remains some uncertainty about the exact concentration of the reference material. For that reason, we decided to report results in units rather than µg/L. In your case, the response is only slightly above background.

all the best, Christoph