Is this velvet? Something else?

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Close up pictures of what is covering him.

 

[ejsanchez92399]

I say do a freshwater dip at this point

 

[MnFish1]

The fish is moribund - and unlikely to survive unfortunately. It clearly looks like Ich at this point.

 

[MnFish1]

Can you give an update?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Close up pictures of what is covering him.

This fish is overtaken by disease and likely will not make it through the night. This is often the result of delaying treatment in which time is of essence - something to keep in mind going forward with any new fish.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

The fish is moribund - and unlikely to survive unfortunately. It clearly looks like Ich at this point.

I suspected this when finally seeing up close.

Can you give an update?

The fish is still barely clinging to life. He is moving time to time to reposition himself. Breathing very heavily.

I did another 50% water change to get the ammonia further down. Copper Power at 2.33 ppm.

I decided to do the water change to take away any stress from the ammonia… figured I had nothing to lose at this point.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

This fish is overtaken by disease and likely will not make it through the night. This is often the result of delaying treatment in which time is of essence - something to keep in mind going forward with any new fish.

I suspected this as well. I knew something looked off 24 hours before I sought all your help. But no pictures could show the thin white film that I could see in person. But I now have this experience to know what to look for.

In hindsight, do you think that white thing on his fin was the first growth? Do I start treatment as early as at that point in the future?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I suspected this as well. I knew something looked off 24 hours before I sought all your help. But no pictures could show the thin white film that I could see in person. But I now have this experience to know what to look for.

In hindsight, do you think that white thing on his fin was the first growth? Do I start treatment as early as at that point in the future?

It may be the separation of mucus from the skin

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

The tang survived the night. He’s in the same exact condition as last night.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The tang survived the night. He’s in the same exact condition as last night.

Im surprised. If have not done so, add air stone for added oxygen and hope for the best

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Im surprised. If have not done so, add air stone for added oxygen and hope for the best

I really am, as well. I have two sponge filters in there with my dual air pump set at highest setting. I’m working from home today so will be able to also keep an eye on him throughout the day.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I really am, as well. I have two sponge filters in there with my dual air pump set at highest setting. I’m working from home today so will be able to also keep an eye on him throughout the day.

Breathing/breathing rate will be the biggest factor along with response to medication. Coppersafe often takes 1-2 days to begin taking effect.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Breathing/breathing rate will be the biggest factor along with response to medication. Coppersafe often takes 1-2 days to begin taking effect.

Don’t know if timeline is different, but I am using copper power.

My air pump had more juice to give, so I just cranked it up a bit more. It’s only at 50% ish and creating significant amount of bubbles. Don’t know if there is such thing as “too much” air.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Don’t know if timeline is different, but I am using copper power.

My air pump had more juice to give, so I just cranked it up a bit more. It’s only at 50% ish and creating significant amount of bubbles. Don’t know if there is such thing as “too much” air.

These bubbles should be sufficient. Air stone mentioned offers more oxygen and surface to air saturation

 

[MnFish1]

Don’t know if timeline is different, but I am using copper power.

My air pump had more juice to give, so I just cranked it up a bit more. It’s only at 50% ish and creating significant amount of bubbles. Don’t know if there is such thing as “too much” air.

Copper power is fine - and the timeline is the same - the copper does not do anything to the lesions on the fish - only when the parasites are swimming - so you should see gradual drop off of 'spots' if the fish is going to make it - hopefully it will!! Thanks for the updates

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

The tang died over night. Appreciate everyone trying to help out.

I’ve been reading a lot into ich these last few days. I went through other threads inquiring about ich vs velvet to “test” myself. I correctly identified ich nearly everytime (two times, members suspected ich and velvet). What my tang had did not fully look like other cases of ich. It also did not start out like other cases.

Could the ammonia spike have impacted how the disease presented in the fish?

Also, I have been wondering where this disease originated. If from my main tank (which seeded this QT), has it been there all these years or recently introduced to my tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The tang died over night. Appreciate everyone trying to help out.

I’ve been reading a lot into ich these last few days. I went through other threads inquiring about ich vs velvet to “test” myself. I correctly identified ich nearly everytime (two times, members suspected ich and velvet). What my tang had did not fully look like other cases of ich. It also did not start out like other cases.

Could the ammonia spike have impacted how the disease presented in the fish?

Also, I have been wondering where this disease originated. If from my main tank (which seeded this QT), has it been there all these years or recently introduced to my tank?

Sorry to hear. As mentioned, copper takes up to three days to begin curing the fish.

I wonder - in this case, if there were multiple issues? Ich doesn't start out with rapid breathing, but the spots in the last photo are clearly ich. That's why folks were trying to tie down aeration or ammonia issues. Velvet causes rapid breathing and kills faster than ich does. Brooklynella causes rapid breathing and skin slime and copper doesn't help much with that.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

Sorry to hear. As mentioned, copper takes up to three days to begin curing the fish.

I wonder - in this case, if there were multiple issues? Ich doesn't start out with rapid breathing, but the spots in the last photo are clearly ich. That's why folks were trying to tie down aeration or ammonia issues. Velvet causes rapid breathing and kills faster than ich does. Brooklynella causes rapid breathing and skin slime and copper doesn't help much with that.

Jay, I think you nailed it with brooklynella being the other disease! I did not even think of this as I have always associated it with clownfish. I also never previously had any fish with this disease. The symptoms, the time line, the outcome (I imagine a result of not using the best treatment) all align with brooklynella. This plus ich makes a lot more sense.

Regarding ich, I came across one of your posts from several years ago recommending going straight to 2.5 ppm with Copper Power. I only came across this last night at 9pm and had mine at 2.2-2.3 until then. I imagine having it at the lower ppm during the first 24 hours also did not help.

Sadly I did not fully understand the benefits of quarantining when I first started my tank back in 2019, so both of these very well could have been in my main tank all these years. I’m having a hard time discerning most up-to-date facts/understandings from opinions and misinformation. Are we able to fully eradicate ich from our tanks or is it something that once there, is always there? And brooklynella?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay, I think you nailed it with brooklynella being the other disease! I did not even think of this as I have always associated it with clownfish. I also never previously had any fish with this disease. The symptoms, the time line, the outcome (I imagine a result of not using the best treatment) all align with brooklynella. This plus ich makes a lot more sense.

Regarding ich, I came across one of your posts from several years ago recommending going straight to 2.5 ppm with Copper Power. I only came across this last night at 9pm and had mine at 2.2-2.3 until then. I imagine having it at the lower ppm during the first 24 hours also did not help.

Sadly I did not fully understand the benefits of quarantining when I first started my tank back in 2019, so both of these very well could have been in my main tank all these years. I’m having a hard time discerning most up-to-date facts/understandings from opinions and misinformation. Are we able to fully eradicate ich from our tanks or is it something that once there, is always there? And brooklynella?

2.2 to 2.3 ppm copper is fine though. We've just seen people take days to go from .5 to 1 and then a week to get to a full dose - that's too long and can cause fish death from an uncontrolled disease. Once you get above 2, you are in the therapeutic range, it's just that 2.5 works a bit faster.

 

[Pau Hana Reefer]

2.2 to 2.3 ppm copper is fine though. We've just seen people take days to go from .5 to 1 and then a week to get to a full dose - that's too long and can cause fish death from an uncontrolled disease. Once you get above 2, you are in the therapeutic range, it's just that 2.5 works a bit faster.

That makes sense. I wasn’t sure if I was lingering onto some dated information.

And any thoughts on whether it’s possible to fully eradicate ich from our systems? Or any articles you can point me to that speaks to this?