Livestock Transfer Risk Assessment

[EricR]

I plan to transfer all of my minimal livestock (FOWLR + inverts, NO corals) from current 37 gallon TALL tank into standard 40 gallon breeder. Current tank is about 5 months old (some of the livestock older, from smaller tanks).

Just wondering how risky this really is.

Reasoning:
-- Current 37 gallon tank is tall and narrow = 30” x 12” x 22” <--which is just bugging me for numerous reasons.
-- Standard 47 gallon breeder = 36” x 18” x 16” <--makes more sense because:
(a. Easier to reach the bottom for maintenance
(b. More room front to back (and side to side)
(c. 36" length is pretty much as big as I can go in nook where the tank sits

Only livestock of note is 1 small clown, 1 bicolor blenny, 1 chocolate chip starfish, 1 pink urchin, 1 tiger conch, 2 nassarius snails, 4 margarita snails, and 2 small hermit crabs. (NO corals)

My plan would be to (all in a couple/few hours):
1. Temporarily move all livestock with some old tank water into a couple of smaller 8-12 gallon tanks.
2. Move existing sand, live rock (3 rocks, 5-6 lbs each, stacked into cave/tunnel structure), and water (old+new) into the new 40 gallon tank.
*unless someone scares me out of re-using the sand, but it's established so I think I should???
3. Add one new DRY rock structure (probably 3/4 amount of current LIVE rock).
*I hope/assume this won't cause too much calamity???
4. Transfer equipment = easy <--just 2 HOB power filters and 2 heaters.
5. Add all livestock to new tank. (House will be at 77 degrees and water should be same as water change so I don't think any acclimation issues).

Thoughts/concerns?

 

[Myxini]

I think you can re-use the sand but rinse it well. Even in just 5 months, it will have collected detritus that you don’t want to cloud up/foul the water in your new system. Everything in the sand came from the live rock anyhow, so it will get established again. I don’t think adding the dry rock is problematic at all.

When you’re prepping the new water, make sure you check salinity and pH between the new and old systems before you put in your live stock. Unless you save a lot of the water from the old system, you’ll be doing much more than a typical water change. The water values should be the same OR acclimate.

Happy moving!

 

[EricR]

I think you can re-use the sand but rinse it well. Even in just 5 months, it will have collected detritus that you don’t want to cloud up/foul the water in your new system. Everything in the sand came from the live rock anyhow, so it will get established again. I don’t think adding the dry rock is problematic at all.

When you’re prepping the new water, make sure you check salinity and pH between the new and old systems before you put in your live stock. Unless you save a lot of the water from the old system, you’ll be doing much more than a typical water change. The water values should be the same OR acclimate.

Happy moving!

Thanks -- but won't rinsing the sand kill all of the nitrifying bacteria? (...also all other microfauna but that part is acceptable, I guess).

 

[brandon429]

Eric its true, I love reefing ironies. Myxini is 100% right

consider this work here, its exactly how you handle skip cycle moves by rinsing, in tap water specifically and not saltwater

-we love reefing irony lol tap beats salt for our purpose always-

these are storm rebuilds, but right at the re assembly point the outcome would be the same if they scooted all rinsed material into a new larger tank:

A week without power - Recoverable?

So, tank went without power for a week following hurricane Ida. There was no flow(obviously) and temps hit 85-86 during the day. I came back to the city to rescue my 2 clowns who are currently living in a 5 gallon bucket with a bubbler. Basically my question is: what are my options from here...

www.reef2reef.com

your risk assessment is this:

diverge from the plan above, 10% loss risk if you concern over sandbed bacteria


0% risk of loss if you copy the worlds simplest plan-tap rinse all sand for hours, so clean a snowglobe is jealous.

final rinse of sand in RO, to evacuate evil tap. set sand aside.

take rocks from old tank and twist swish in saltwater, old tank water is fine, and set aside (both substrates are now clear of detritus, we maintained the rock bacteria that was saltwater rinse only)

move all animals to new tank, match temp and salinity only after adding back in your clean sand and rocks. post us pics please you can see we collect after pics like jewels.

The reason this works is due to new cycling science vs old: live sandbed bacteria are not needed in any reef tank, period. they're tolerated extra respiring bioload, like an extra fish. being one less fish in a reef tank never hurt anyone. = reefing irony, the old rules said we must keep all bacteria all the time.

the reason we treat a 5 month tank just like a 5 year old tank above for your plan is because we don't move any detritus to the new tank, so it skip cycles. dont use bottle bac here, at all.

why we use tap, why it beats saltwater sand rinsing: tap is unlimited. Salt mixe runs out halfway rinsed, the keeper inputs clouding, 10% die. On tap rinsing, we have fifty pages of work above that’s only two examples from the fifty page work thread 100% safe transfers, tap rinsing is safer than saltwater rinsing.

 

[EricR]

Eric its true, I love reefing ironies. Myxini is 100% right

consider this work here, its exactly how you handle skip cycle moves by rinsing, in tap water specifically and not saltwater

-we love reefing irony lol tap beats salt for our purpose always-

these are storm rebuilds, but right at the re assembly point the outcome would be the same if they scooted all rinsed material into a new larger tank:

A week without power - Recoverable?

So, tank went without power for a week following hurricane Ida. There was no flow(obviously) and temps hit 85-86 during the day. I came back to the city to rescue my 2 clowns who are currently living in a 5 gallon bucket with a bubbler. Basically my question is: what are my options from here...

www.reef2reef.com

your risk assessment is this:

diverge from the plan above, 10% loss risk if you concern over sandbed bacteria


0% risk of loss if you copy the worlds simplest plan-tap rinse all sand for hours, so clean a snowglobe is jealous.

final rinse of sand in RO, to evacuate evil tap. set sand aside.

take rocks from old tank and twist swish in saltwater, old tank water is fine, and set aside (both substrates are now clear of detritus, we maintained the rock bacteria that was saltwater rinse only)

move all animals to new tank, match temp and salinity only after adding back in your clean sand and rocks. post us pics please you can see we collect after pics like jewels.

The reason this works is due to new cycling science vs old: live sandbed bacteria are not needed in any reef tank, period. they're tolerated extra respiring bioload, like an extra fish. being one less fish in a reef tank never hurt anyone. = reefing irony, the old rules said we must keep all bacteria all the time.

the reason we treat a 5 month tank just like a 5 year old tank above for your plan is because we don't move any detritus to the new tank, so it skip cycles. dont use bottle bac here, at all.

why we use tap, why it beats saltwater sand rinsing: tap is unlimited. Salt mixe runs out halfway rinsed, the keeper inputs clouding, 10% die. On tap rinsing, we have fifty pages of work above that’s only two examples from the fifty page work thread 100% safe transfers, tap rinsing is safer than saltwater rinsing.

Wow -- thanks for that -- very interesting.
I've also now found a bunch of other posts you and others have done on this method,,, so thanks a lot in advance for all of the hours of reading I have ahead of me!!! (Just kidding)

There's a lot of good info to consider out there but I'm already convinced to rinse the sand (or maybe even go with new sand, not sure yet).

For clarification, my "plan" (for transfer) is still in evaluation phase. (Not ready to do it right this second).

Whenever I do get around to actually doing it, I'll try to remember to make a point to document the process I use and any consequences (like if I deviate at all) and/or successes.

 

[Tired]

Most of your good bacteria is in your rockwork, not your sand. You'll lose some bacteria, but will still have plenty for the tank to function fine, and the sandbed will repopulate fast.

Whether you vigorously rinse or completely replace your sandbed, scoop out a couple cups of the old sand and put that in the tank. That should transfer microfauna. Pick sand from a clean spot and/or scrape it off the top layer, and it should avoid any trouble with detritus and whatnot.

 

[brandon429]

dont transfer any old sand, thats killed tanks before, it’s where the ten pct loss comes from, don’t transfer any old sand or customize what we did in the links if you want 100% safety. we have loss examples x3 doing that handful approach on our sand rinse thread. We have to account for varying presentations of waste that are undisclosed tank to tank, Tired even on nano reef.com I wouldn't recommend that procedure it’s dangerous for public tanks even if yours made it/ was part of the 90%

here's a big one

Upgrade disaster

Recently had a huge leak in our 90 gal reef which forced us to upgrade sooner than expected . The upgrade being a 230 gal with a 48 gal sump . Mistake #1 I added some of the old sand assuming it would be beneficial to have a little bacteria .. I was wrong . Nuked the whole tank killing all fish...

www.reef2reef.com

**this is rare, agreed its not a blanket alarm Tired/most tanks can handle it.


we just don't have room for any loss rate to take that risk, as omitting the sand won't matter/the rocks are what re transfer the life back over, not the old sand. sand was mainly mud + grains in all tanks, a couple worms only if lucky.

 

[EricR]

Not quite ready yet but getting closer.
Maybe 2-3 more weeks.

40 gallon breeder in the garage, filled, making sure no leaks right now.
PetCo 50% off sale started today so I got the tank (bought online, picked-up in store) for $49.99 - $5 coupon I had = $44.99.

More dry rock showing up Friday and then still need to paint the back of the tank and figure out (roughly) how to fit the new rock in, but then getting closer...

 

[Coxey81]

Not quite ready yet but getting closer.
Maybe 2-3 more weeks.

40 gallon breeder in the garage, filled, making sure no leaks right now.
PetCo 50% off sale started today so I got the tank (bought online, picked-up in store) for $49.99 - $5 coupon I had = $44.99.

More dry rock showing up Friday and then still need to paint the back of the tank and figure out (roughly) how to fit the new rock in, but then getting closer...

Here is what I did when I purchased a used tank with livestock. Had to move them over a day with a 4.5 hour drive and had no losses. Might help you some.

Moving a used 40 gallon breed with sump and livestock?

Hi, I found a used 40 gallon breeder setup with stand thats only 7 months old for a good price. But it would be my first tank and I'm concerned about moving it and keeping the livestock alive. There are 4 fish, two small corals, and two shrimp and a Halloween crab. Any tips on moving it an the...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[EricR]

I finally did my tank transfer this afternoon (37 gallon tall to 40 breeder).
So far, all good.

Heading out for pizza (and libations ... DOH!) so will post some details and pics in a couple of days or next weekend.

I did end up buying new sand <-- PetSmart had online sale on DRY CaribSea "special grade", 40 lbs for $19.99 + $4.99 shipping.
Rinsed that for like 1.5 hours until the run-off was mostly clear.

Only "scare" I had during the transfer was my bicolor blenny:
-- When original tank water was down to about 50% and I started moving rocks and livestock, he went into his favorite hole in the live rock and I couldn't get him out.
-- Ended up having to move the rock with with blenny inside, twice (...old tank to temp tank and temp tank to new tank).
-- After his rock got into the new tank he FREAKED OUT and went for a jump attempt (which I've never seen him ever get anywhere close to doing before).
-- I think he hit the lip of the top rim on the tank and then darted back down.
-- He seems fine so I think all good there.

 

[EricR]

Finishing this off...

I was way too busy to take many pictures but here's a few along with the recap of how my tank transfer went (37g tall to 40B), about 1.5 weeks later...

Prep:
-- bought new sand (posted above) and rinsed with garden hose FOREVER ...pretty clear run off by the end, plus final rinsed with new saltwater (just because I had a ton of saltwater ready and not as much RO/DI)

Temporary containment vessels:
-- 2 smaller glass tanks (5g and 12g maybe?) for livestock, with air stones
-- BIG storage container from garage rafters for as much OLD tank water I could keep and everything else going into new tank
-- 5 gallon bucket for swishing/blasting/cleaning stuff and discard
-- cheapie Amazon pump to move water

Actual transfer:
(1. Pumped old water into temporary tanks and 5g bucket (to point of live rocks still being submerged in tank
(2. Moved rocks and live stock *swish/blast rocks in bucket during move
(3. Drained old tank (water into BIG garage container)
(4. Scooped out old sand and moved tank out
(5. Put new tank in and leveled
(6. New dry rock then sand -- kept most sand at edges because I decided to go with bottom of rocks on glass
(7. Started filling with old water from garage container
(8. Moved live rock in once water level high enough to cover
(9. Heated new tank until it matched (slightly falling) temperature in temporary tanks
(10. Moved livestock in then finished filling
*randomly started using NEW saltwater as needed during all filling, ended up using about 15 gallons of new water (only salinity matched to old water and first pH check matched old so didn't worry about that)
*monitored temperature in main tanks and one temporary tank -- there was a temperature swing of about 3 degrees

Deviations from the plan:
-- bicolor blenny would NOT come out of his hole in one live rock during this escapade so I did move one live rock (twice) without ever "swishing" it (with blenny inside, as mentioned in previous post). Hopefully the detritus in that one rock isn't an issue but we'll see.
-- didn't use all new water and, in fact, actually saved as much of my OLD water as possible (minus the stuff from the bottom or the bucket I used for swishing stuff). *this isn't a deviation from my intent but, now that I'm glancing back through stuff, is a deviation from the "Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer" thread.

Transfer was about 10 days ago and everything seems to be doing fine.
My only concern is that now the tank is too clean for my small inverts to find food so have been feeding a bit extra (qty) and some target feeding.

PICS BELOW

Old 37 gallon tall tank:

Temporary transfer pics:

New 40 gallon breeder tank:

 

[EricR]

2022 Status Update:

• 3 months since tank transfer
• White dry rock (new during tank transfer) is now fully “colored” - even the urchin’s attempts to carve it back to bald aren’t keeping up
• Got an AI Nero 5 + iSea Live Anemone Guard for Christmas
• First ever coral (small zoas off the cheapie rack at LFS), only in the tank for 1 week so far

FTS — rock on right was new/dry/white 3 months ago

Coral still on rack — no idea what I’m doing with lighting, flow, or placement yet so keeping it mobile for the time-being. (I'm aware that chocolate chip starfish are not considered reef safe so just keeping an eye on it for now)

 

[AnotherReefHobbyist]

Did you have an ammonia spike after the transfer, or were nutrients similar to normal?

 

[EricR]

Did you have an ammonia spike after the transfer, or were nutrients similar to normal?

No spike -- nutrients were pretty much zeroed out for a while.

*actually meant to post the 2022 update in my build thread but I guess I messed up. Oh well...

 

[brandon429]

I’m very happy to see this

plus such an update with the guided coralline rocks this deserves to go in the top five now six rip cleans thread. Only the top laser clear reassemblies are wedged into a mere six page read of works. Can’t wait to link this build in two places


Nice job!