Multiple dwarf angels in one tank?

[Tori]

Since starting a new life in Thailand I am becoming acquainted with the owner of a local fish farm called Atoll Farm. They’re looking at exporting their captive bred fish in the future but still figuring that out. For now they’ve successfully bred Flames and Colin’s Angels, and the guy told me he will be releasing not C. Acanthops, but C. Aurantonotus in a few months as captive bred fish. First in the world.

He is also working on P. Multifasciatus and will soon do P. Venusta, C. Multicolor and Lemonpeels and Eiblis.

The dude is passionate about what he does and actually takes time to personally respond to messages regularly unlike Bali Aquarich and some others.

On top of angels the guy breeds standard fare like Clowns and Dottybacks, as well as Royal Grammas, Azure Damsels, Molly Miller Blennies and Mandarins (S. Splendidus).

Really cool guy to talk to. He also has his own brand of fish food. What’s cool about him is that he not only talks about breeding different angelfish species, he is having success. The hatch rates for Flame, Colini and now Brazilian Flameback eggs under his protocol is 80+%, that’s what he claims and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s really at / near that figure.

How do we get this man some Potter's Angels?? But seriously, that's incredible! I hope he continues to grow his operations.

 

[LaloJ]

Just the one I'm keeping. Current observation however is that once it has settled it, it eats like a horse, is intelligent and can recognize humans and that we feed and care for it. It has nipped at my Kenya tree every once in a while but nothing major. Currently for it's size, it rules the tank out of the two fish in the MT.

I had the option at a Singapore locally but it was a fussy eater, actively nipping the tanks Kenya trees and would hide often. I'm glad we picked up Bandit (wife likes to name the fish) as it's got a lot of personality.

Well, it looks like you've been given a fish with a lot of personality, I think all angels that adapt to a tank are capable of tolerating even less favorable water levels, even acting like a playful little pet.
Chaetodontoplus are beautiful fish but they are quite delicate in handling, it would be practically easier to handle some species of butterflies IMO, although I know of cases where these fish even eat from the hand, I have in mind to keep Singapore angelfish together in the near future with some more demanding butterflies and angels, Multibarred is one of the most desired for me.

 

[Zionas]

I really hope he does! He’s doing some incredible work indeed. I’ll give you the link to his Facebook, you’ll have to translate the Thai into English but his most recent post’s about him starting to breed Multibars. Once he starts growing Venusta Angels he plans to hybridize them in captivity. Feel free to chat him up, his English is decent.

https://m.facebook.com/100001148726531/

 

[reefsamurai]

Heres tonight's addition of the new angels. They are still a bit although the eibli is starting exhibit the typical nonshalant attitude I've always experienced with this species.

 

[i cant think]

Heres tonight's addition of the new angels. They are still a bit although the eibli is starting exhibit the typical nonshalant attitude I've always experienced with this species.

I’m curious on if you have any experience with the Regal Angel and their growth rates/average max size in captivity?

 

[Zionas]

One figure I can give is a user called @outerbank who’s had his for 12-13 years I think and it topped out about 5.5-6 inches (14-15cm).

Another figure I can give, more vague, is copps (John Coppolino) who’s had his for multiple years as well (between different tanks) and he also says 5.5-6” is about the max.

 

[i cant think]

One figure I can give is a user called @outerbank who’s had his for 12-13 years I think and it topped out about 5.5-6 inches (14-15cm).

Another figure I can give, more vague, is copps (John Coppolino) who’s had his for multiple years as well (between different tanks) and he also says 5.5-6” is about the max.

This seems to be similar to the melanospilos then, mine was a mature male when I got him (and obviously we know what mysteriously happened) and he only got to 6 inches from 4 inches then stopped growing.

 

[reefsamurai]

Fast update, the eibli is happily consuming nori, I can't say for the CB only because I have not actually witnessed it. They both eat pellets and frozen food!

After Christmas we are picking up a 60g frag tank that will fit snuggly beside the QT tank. It's plumbed with an overflow and the plan is to eventually use it as a grow out tank for frags. That and it will add to system volume and allow for any species I want but won't work in the MT.

 

[Zionas]

Cool! Which species are you considering adding?

 

[reefsamurai]

Cool! Which species are you considering adding?

Sorry for the lack of response. Our lives because very busy during the holidays as we adopted something four legged.

The species I've looked at would be corals that the angels couldn't resist a nibble or any smaller fish that could be pestered by a more boisterous angel.

The 60 is in place but I don't know if I will keep it. The previous owner had it drilled in the center. This presents a problem for where I am wanting to use it. Not so much if I use the stand it came with however, the plan was to plumb it in to the DT to increase water volume, stability and since I dose into that water. I'll put pics below.

The eibli and CB are doing well. They get along like old friends and tomorrow (Sunday January 15,) will be the 30 day mark. I will again setup the shark cage in the MT while everyone gets happy and acclimated and go from there.

Plans for the future will be to actually replumb the MT with stand pipes that are connected to gate valves. The durso style drains have proven inefficient over the last 3 years and as a result, I am only able to run my return at less than 50%. The results I have found are that the nutrients stay in the display and are not properly sent to processing in the sump. I have always had a "slick" or film on my waters surface and feel this could be a result of lack of volume turnover. I am not chasing GPH numbers or percentage of return speed. Only a more effective way to use the sump.

When everyone is all out and running amuck, I will attempt a video.

 

[reefsamurai]

Today was the day. Shark cage is in, hiding spots covered and a spot of nori is floating on the surface. Other angels are out cruising for food and I've also added in a frag of some nephthia(sclera I hope) that was in QT along with the angels. I'm going with the recommendation of everything gets the ole QT method anymore.

Video to follow tonight before the game starts. Hopefully this new coral will have opened up and is enjoying life.

As a side bar, since over been trying to keep angels only is this system, we are looking at expanding. Has anyone tried keeping tassled file fish with angels before? I worry that A. The file will find my polyps irresistible and/or B. The angels will find the tassles irresistible. Thoughts?

 

[reefsamurai]

Another thought. Since I went through an took out all the aiptasia I could find in the MT, I have not had any more show up. They are not gone as I have found some in the overflows that are unreachable and in the sump. Have any species of angel been known to feed on these?

 

[reefsamurai]

Video update

 

[Zionas]

Any difference between Eibli and Lemonpeel when it comes to their reef safeness? Eibli seems to get a better reputation from the limited examples, whereas Lemonpeel is almost universally considered a stinker when it comes to reefs.

 

[reefsamurai]

Any difference between Eibli and Lemonpeel when it comes to their reef safeness? Eibli seems to get a better reputation from the limited examples, whereas Lemonpeel is almost universally considered a stinker when it comes to reefs.

That's a subjective question. Can reefsafe truly be categorized? What is one person's reef compared to another's? None of the angels I currently house have bothered any of the corals I house. I am keeping softies and leathers. Now I have seen a decline in stomatella snails and micro feather dusters. Does this mean that they are no reef safe? Are any fish really reef safe since they all feed on some building block of the reef. Phytoplankton all the way up to corals and macrofauna. I would not chase buzz words but anecdotal info or corals not to house with a particular species.

 

[LaloJ]

Flavissima complex is absolutely destructive in reef tanks, surely you can find some specimens that are the exception, I don't doubt it, I hope it is your case.

 

[reefsamurai]

Flavissima complex is absolutely destructive in reef tanks, surely you can find some specimens that are the exception, I don't doubt it, I hope it is your case.

I agree here. There's too many reports of individuals eating most if not all kinds of sessile invertebrates.

I feel like a lot of these issues are a lack of understanding of the individual species dietary intake. Also if the fish is feeding on corals, does this mean that the nutrients they need can only come from this? Is this the reason for reduced life span. An example would be convict surgeons. They do poorly in aquariums unless there is an abundance of other algae eating species. The theory is that they(convicts) cannot digest fresh algae and must feed on the undigested, albeit softened stomach contents from other animals.

 

[LaloJ]

I agree here. There's too many reports of individuals eating most if not all kinds of sessile invertebrates.

I feel like a lot of these issues are a lack of understanding of the individual species dietary intake. Also if the fish is feeding on corals, does this mean that the nutrients they need can only come from this? Is this the reason for reduced life span. An example would be convict surgeons. They do poorly in aquariums unless there is an abundance of other algae eating species. The theory is that they(convicts) cannot digest fresh algae and must feed on the undigested, albeit softened stomach contents from other animals.

That is a very good question, I mentioned it in another thread, but there is still a lack of studies on the feeding of various fish in the wild. It's likely that they find something in this type of coral that really helps in their correct nutrition, it could be necessary in any case, since angelfishes also feed on the feces of other fish. Regarding butterflyfishes, the diet of obligate coralivores remains unknown, they feed almost exclusively on coral polyps, but at least as far as I know, there is no specific study that determines the reason for this dietary need.

 

[reefsamurai]

Video update later after the lights come on but all is well in paradise. The hounds were released yesterday as I took the day off. I decided to leave the cage in overnight after someone else's suggestion in this thread(can't remember who) just in case they needed a quick exit. This was not needed so far as I probably overfed heavily to ensure happiness all around. The coral beauty was the first to swim out and introduce itself to the other occupants. Neither seemed to care much other than to investigate but no physical altercations ensued. The Eibli took about a half hour longer to come out but I was right about it's personality. Like all other Eibli in my experience, no effs given and it was cruising around in plain sight eating like it had always been there. This morning as I wander around before the tanks lights are on, who is already out making it's presence known? Eibli. Hopefully the coral beauty will become more bold as yesterday it stayed under all the rocks, cruising from nook to nook. It only ventured out briefly to investigate the food floating around.

The new nephthia is coloring up nicely to a beautiful fleshy pink color and starting to inflate more and more.

I will clean the glass and get a update video going most likely this afternoon. Since we are all angel lovers here, I found this article yesterday. https://reefbuilders.com/2023/01/20/tangerine-coral-beauty-flexes-its-colorific-dna/

 

[reefsamurai]

Video update. Little long at 8+ minutes.