Need any and all advice

[Ranjib]

Welcome to r2r. Marinedepot has a video on youtube on skimmers, HoB options are mentioned there.

 

[AlexStinson]

FWIW their 40 breeders are tempered as well, or at least the ones I have from Petco. Even has a big sticker 'tempered do not drill'

 

[jozekgawlak]

I run a 5 stage canister filter with a reef octopus HOB and no sump for 3 years and every things doing great!

 

[Forsaken77]

Hey everyone! New to the site as well saltwater! Currently, I have my tank that’s it. 55 gal, bare tank. I am making my own stand and hood, already in the process. My biggest question is about filtration. I’m not going to have the room to run a sump system. Was planning on running a canister filter. Is that okay? How would I go about a skimmer, HOB? I’ve been seeing a lot about an over flow box, not entirely sure what that is. Or if it’s for sump systems only. I know my live rock will technically be my main means of filtration with blowers and what not. Any advice will be greatly appreciated

I would definitely use some sort of filter in addition to a skimmer. If you go with a canister, the Fluval FX4 would do or a comparable Eheim. For bio media in the filter I would suggest either Seachem Matrix or Marinepure balls, not the crap the filter comes with. You can even use 2 of the bigger HOB filters so you have one on each side.

When you use carbon, it's preferable to use ROX 0.8 carbon. The regular carbon is meant more for air purification than water and the ROX, while more expensive, has a larger capacity to hold organics.

As for a skimmer, I would recommend the AquaMaxx HOB 1.5. They make excellent HOB skimmers for smaller tanks. They're currently out of stock, but should get more. Or you can find it elsewhere, but Marine Depot is the main place for AquaMaxx gear in case there's a problem or need warranty support.

As for the 55, I realize you're limited on space, but the 75 is just wider, front to back, and same length. It'll make a HUGE difference after you put all the rock in, which should be 1 pound per gallon, at least, if it's going to be a main source of bio filtration. Same reason I tell people to go with a 120 over a longer 125, the width.

Also with the rock, I would suggest buying cured rock (if bought live), or if going with a man made dry rock that won't have any algae, built-up contaminants, ect... I suggest checking out the CaribSea Life Rock. I know a few people using it with very good results and am adding it to my 180 as well. You can get a 40 pound box and a 20 pound box and that'll suit your needs if you decide to go that route.

Are you planning to have corals or mainly fish? Because a lot of saltwater fish get very big and can't go in a 55 or 75. Just keep that in mind and research the fish before you get them. Live Aquaria is a good source for a recommended tank size and compatibility for each type of fish.

Good luck and if you have any questions, don't hesitate. This is a very helpful forum with great and knowledgeable people.

 

[sfin52]

I use a fluval canister filter for my reef. Maintenance is not to bad if you keep on a schedule. The only downside with a smaller tank is that I can't have some of the more fancier fish. I'm happy with my current selection in my 75. Also recommend a hob skimmer.

 

[Fishboy&crazycatfishlady]

Is a small refigium something possible? I’m not going to be able to run a full sump system (limited space) instead of even running a canister

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Is a small refigium something possible? I’m not going to be able to run a full sump system (limited space) instead of even running a canister

Yes it is. They make “in tank refugiums.” You just have to hang it where it can fit.

CPR makes a Aquafuge with combined skimmer. They run about $300

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

 

[Fishboy&crazycatfishlady]

I would definitely use some sort of filter in addition to a skimmer. If you go with a canister, the Fluval FX4 would do or a comparable Eheim. For bio media in the filter I would suggest either Seachem Matrix or Marinepure balls, not the crap the filter comes with. You can even use 2 of the bigger HOB filters so you have one on each side.

When you use carbon, it's preferable to use ROX 0.8 carbon. The regular carbon is meant more for air purification than water and the ROX, while more expensive, has a larger capacity to hold organics.

As for a skimmer, I would recommend the AquaMaxx HOB 1.5. They make excellent HOB skimmers for smaller tanks. They're currently out of stock, but should get more. Or you can find it elsewhere, but Marine Depot is the main place for AquaMaxx gear in case there's a problem or need warranty support.

As for the 55, I realize you're limited on space, but the 75 is just wider, front to back, and same length. It'll make a HUGE difference after you put all the rock in, which should be 1 pound per gallon, at least, if it's going to be a main source of bio filtration. Same reason I tell people to go with a 120 over a longer 125, the width.

Also with the rock, I would suggest buying cured rock (if bought live), or if going with a man made dry rock that won't have any algae, built-up contaminants, ect... I suggest checking out the CaribSea Life Rock. I know a few people using it with very good results and am adding it to my 180 as well. You can get a 40 pound box and a 20 pound box and that'll suit your needs if you decide to go that route.

Are you planning to have corals or mainly fish? Because a lot of saltwater fish get very big and can't go in a 55 or 75. Just keep that in mind and research the fish before you get them. Live Aquaria is a good source for a recommended tank size and compatibility for each type of fish.

Good luck and if you have any questions, don't hesitate. This is a very helpful forum with great and knowledgeable people.

Lots of info!! Thank you! The plan is to have some corals/fish/inverts. I’ve already been doing lots of research on everything I’d like to have living in my tank. And with the rock, if I buy it dry, I then have to cure it before it goes in the tank? Or how does that work

 

[foxt]

Rocks get a lot of attention on the forum, lots of different experiences, opinions, etc.

In case it helps, here is what I understand as the "big picture" for choices for rocks:

1. live rock - rock plucked out of the ocean, or a system, shipped/stored wet or under water, seeded with bacteria, life forms, possibly pests, etc. It's a ready-made bacterial filtration system. If it has just been plucked from the ocean and has been maintained in a way to keep everything on it alive, you just put it right into a tank and practically avoid a cycle. I say "practically", because some of the life on the rock may die off in the process of harvesting, shipping, etc, so you may see an ammonia spike when starting out a new tank with this, so you need to keep an eye on it.

2. dry rock - a confusing term, but one that most try to only use to refer to rock that is quarried on land from reefs (or other rock structures) that died a long long time ago. This rock usually comes with nothing on it except, well, rock. Whatever organic material may have lived on it is long gone and decomposed. Although it really depends on the source, this is usually safe to just go ahead an put in a tank without worry about phosphates, etc. Sometimes this kind of rock is misrepresented, and you will find remnants of dead stuff on it, or there may even be stuff you can't see. To be extra safe, if you aren't sure that it's clean, you can take any number of steps to test it and clean it.

3. dry live rock - another confusing term, but one that people mostly use to refer to rock that was recently home to life, but has been allowed to dry out. This is the stuff that you need to clean and cure. The rock will usually include lots of dead organic material, which needs to be removed before placing it in a tank. There are lots of ways to go about this (acid, soaking, power washing, scrubbing, etc). Examples of this rock are the BRS pukani that many people like - it is nice and porous, easy to shape, but does need to get a good cleaning and cure before it goes in a system.

4. man mad dry rock - an alternative to dry rock, this has never been exposed to life in the ocean, and you should be able to just add it to your system. Similar to the concern about dry rock, you need to just check to make sure it's really as advertised. There have also been some reports that this stuff can leach phosphates, more on that in a bit.

So, you ask" if I buy it dry, do I need to cure rock before I put it in my system?". Depends on what kind of dry rock you are buying!

"curing" is simply the process of removing the dead/decaying organic material than can come in on rock. If you are buying live rock that was well cared for, you don't need to cure it. If the live rock wasn't always submerged, or it was shipped a long way and just kept damp, or it wasn't kept in a healthy system, some of the life on it may have died. You can sometimes tell right away, by the smell (if it smells bad, some of it has died). Although it may be sold as "live rock", and it may still have some life on it, if it does have any dead stuff on it, you need to take the precaution of curing it before you place it in a system. That dead stuff needs to be fully processed by the natural systems in a tank, to go from dead stuff, to ammonia, to nitrite, etc. If you don't have a functioning system, or you have a system that can't handle the extra bio load, when you place "live rock" that has lots of dead stuff on it in that system, you will overwhelm the bio load capacity of that system, and start a cycle which will then keep running until the system can process all of the dead stuff. That's essentially what "curing" does - set up a bio system to fully process whatever dead stuff is on the rock.

If you buy clean dry rock with no dead stuff on it, there is no potential bio load to process, and no curing is required. Same goes for man made dry rock. If you buy dry live rock, it is most likely full of potential bio load, and you need to cure it.

The other thing you will read about abut rocks is "phosphate leaching". That's a whole other can of worms, but simply stated, is related to the potential for the rock to have absorbed (or be holding in nooks and crannies) phosphates. High levels of phosphates are bad for our systems - they provide abundant nutrients for stuff like unwanted algae, and we try to control the level. If you add rocks that are holding phosphates, you will see over time that your phosphate levels are mysteriously high, and you will struggle to bring them down to a healthy target level. The usual source of these lurking phosphates are the outermost layers of dry rock, or dry live rock, or even live rock. What most people do to check for a problem is place the rock in a tub of saltwater for a while, and test for phosphates. If they are rising, the rock is quite likely leaching, and there are steps to take. If you see no rise in phosphates, then this shouldn't be a concern.

I know it can sometimes be daunting, but if you're really interested in knowing more about these topic's there are literally hundreds of great threads that discuss them. If, on the other hand, you'd just like some advice as a newb starting out, that will depend on how much you want to spend. In your case, you are dealing with a small tank, and if you can swing the cost, I'd recommend starting off with some aquacultured live rock that you can trust. If that's too costly, then find some dry live rock and take it through a cure. If you're looking for something more middle ground (faster start up, but a little more spendy), then find man-made or quarried dry rock and go with that.

For me, I have used combinations of live rock from places like Tampa Bay Saltwater and Reefcleaners, dry live rock like BRS Pukani or Tonga shelf, and man made rock like Reef Rock 2.1.

 

[Crabs McJones]

It seems that everyone else has info covered so

Welcome to R2R!!

 

[Forsaken77]

Lots of info!! Thank you! The plan is to have some corals/fish/inverts. I’ve already been doing lots of research on everything I’d like to have living in my tank. And with the rock, if I buy it dry, I then have to cure it before it goes in the tank? Or how does that work

With rock, if you plan to buy real live rock, I would buy it from a local place that you trust, has clean setups, ect... because many things can come along in live rock, both good and bad. If you buy it local, you should bring along some 5 gallon buckets with saltwater to bring it home in. That way you avoid having to keep it in the stores water and it needs to stay submerged. Then you can test if it's leeching anything because you know the water is clean.

I mentioned the CaribSea Life Rock because, in my experience, has been the only man made rock that is suitable and doesn't need curing and doesn't leech stuff out from what its made with to cause algae. The CaribSea is made of Aragonite, where a lot of others use concrete. It comes with a spored bacteria already on the rock and can just be placed in the tank and looks natural. There's no curing, no waiting on rock, and it's well made.

Any other type of rock I would cure myself. Basically you get a grey Brute garbage can and fill it with saltwater, a powerhead and heater and let the organics come off. It takes weeks. You'd have to search on how to cure rock. The dry Pukani is filled with dead organics, because it's so porous, and really needs a bath.

As for water, I don't know if you've read up on getting an RODI system. It cleans your tap water of the filth that's in it. Kinda necessary if you want a healthy tank with corals and less algae causing nutrients. You just need to find out if your city uses chlorine or chloramines to clean water because they use different filters in the unit. Chloramines are used less, but are far more difficult to remove and will pass right through a chlorine filter and ruin the membrane (the heart of the RODI).

 

[Fishboy&crazycatfishlady]

With rock, if you plan to buy real live rock, I would buy it from a local place that you trust, has clean setups, ect... because many things can come along in live rock, both good and bad. If you buy it local, you should bring along some 5 gallon buckets with saltwater to bring it home in. That way you avoid having to keep it in the stores water and it needs to stay submerged. Then you can test if it's leeching anything because you know the water is clean.

I mentioned the CaribSea Life Rock because, in my experience, has been the only man made rock that is suitable and doesn't need curing and doesn't leech stuff out from what its made with to cause algae. The CaribSea is made of Aragonite, where a lot of others use concrete. It comes with a spored bacteria already on the rock and can just be placed in the tank and looks natural. There's no curing, no waiting on rock, and it's well made.

Any other type of rock I would cure myself. Basically you get a grey Brute garbage can and fill it with saltwater, a powerhead and heater and let the organics come off. It takes weeks. You'd have to search on how to cure rock. The dry Pukani is filled with dead organics, because it's so porous, and really needs a bath.

As for water, I don't know if you've read up on getting an RODI system. It cleans your tap water of the filth that's in it. Kinda necessary if you want a healthy tank with corals and less algae causing nutrients. You just need to find out if your city uses chlorine or chloramines to clean water because they use different filters in the unit. Chloramines are used less, but are far more difficult to remove and will pass right through a chlorine filter and ruin the membrane (the heart of the RODI).

Did some looking into the CaribSea Life Rock last night, definitely looks like a great option! Going to probably mix a box of that in with some pieces I like at my LFS I like.

RODI system was gonna be my next question. I’ve done some research on them. I need a compact system, something that could go under the sink? In the laundry room? Would a “Home” system from Home Depot work, I saw a small one there. Or is there a difference from ones intended for aquarium use?

 

[Forsaken77]

Did some looking into the CaribSea Life Rock last night, definitely looks like a great option! Going to probably mix a box of that in with some pieces I like at my LFS I like.

RODI system was gonna be my next question. I’ve done some research on them. I need a compact system, something that could go under the sink? In the laundry room? Would a “Home” system from Home Depot work, I saw a small one there. Or is there a difference from ones intended for aquarium use?

I would stick with an aquarium unit just so you don't have a problem getting the correct filters and size. Also, the units you buy for drinking water are just RO units, not RODI. The DI (which is the polishing phase that goes last) is unsafe to drink because it removes all ions from the water. The water will suck ions from your body, making it unhealthy. BRS (Bulk Reef Supply) has a bunch of very affordable units. You can split it off the washing machine spigot, which is what I do, and have the waste water go right into where the washing machine dumps its water, or you can either tap into a pipe under the sink for a permanent connection or just connect it to the faucet when you want to use it. Your waste water goes down the drain.

You'll generally want a large storage container, like the grey Brute trash can (only food safe model) to store the water. And very important, you'll want to get the cheap Auto Shutoff Kit. It will shut the unit off when the pail is full so it doesn't flood if you forget about it. There's a bunch of YouTube videos on how to install it. I believe the one I watched was called "pimp my rodi." You just basically drill a hole through the pail 2 inches from the top to install the float switch and the box is a pressure box that once the float is triggered, it will stop all water, both waste & product.

You also have to flush the membrane a few minutes before every use. So an inline tds monitor should come with the unit. Make sure it has 3 probes if you buy the unit from BRS.

Here's a suggestion and make sure to add this. Some BRS units come with the stuff in the kit except the float valve. So call them to make sure you get the one that goes with the kit, if you want that. But everbody has flooded an RODI unit because they forgot to shut it off. Just trying to help you learn before that happens.

You need to know the psi going into the membrane (needs a certain amount of pressure), it has the triple tds monitor (for source water, after the membrane and after the DI), and then there's the proper flow restrictor for the unit I linked. That unit may come with a flow restrictor that is inside the tubing so it should be removed and replaced with the one from the kit because it allows flushing, you can turn the restrictor on and off. The one inside the tubing you cannot.

I couldn't find a unit on BRS that included all those extras. They also have a 100 gallon per day unit at Marine Depot and a 150 gallon per day unit at BRS. The only thing is that both the membrane and restrictor need to be sized to how many gallons per day the unit is. If ypu have high water pressure the 150 gpd unit is good, but then you should buy the items in the kit separately because it needs a different sized restrictor than is in the kit.

Hope that helps.

 

[Forsaken77]

Did some looking into the CaribSea Life Rock last night, definitely looks like a great option! Going to probably mix a box of that in with some pieces I like at my LFS I like.

RODI system was gonna be my next question. I’ve done some research on them. I need a compact system, something that could go under the sink? In the laundry room? Would a “Home” system from Home Depot work, I saw a small one there. Or is there a difference from ones intended for aquarium use?

Here is a quote from someone that bought Live Rock from their local store yesterday:

"Update on everything, All my fished died except my puffer, all my coral are fine. Learned an expensive lesson, on never new live rock and taking old rock out. A newbie mistake, that will carry on with me forever, this is all apart of the learning curve to learn about the hobby. Wish it never happend, but if it didnt happen early, it had a chance to happen later. Thanks everyone for informing me and helping me learn."

The person lost 3 of 4 fish and may have a disease in the tank from the live rock. It caused a huge ammonia spike that wiped out the fish, and it's also a possibility that disease rode in on the rock. This isn't every case, but it happens. That's why when starting feesh, I prefer man made so there's no contaminants on the rock.

One of my local stores has a separate 3-tank system where the water passes between all 3 tanks. The top tank is fish with disease being treated, and the bottom 2 tanks are for live rock. So they're basically selling people rock with meds and disease. But the average person would not know this walking into the store and that rock will devastate their tank.