Neptune trident

[Potatohead]

I think it's obvious Neptune has thought about the fact there would be old water in the tube and figured out a solution for it. Nobody wants to be testing three day old tank water. I think it's pretty safe to assume the pump will draw a sample, then run in reverse (for a user programmed amount of time, depending on the length of the hose) to return the water in the line to the sump. If Neptune wanted to get fancy they could time how long it takes to get the sample and then run the pump in reverse for that amount of time +2 seconds or something along those lines.

 

[gcarroll]

I think it's obvious Neptune has thought about the fact there would be old water in the tube and figured out a solution for it. Nobody wants to be testing three day old tank water. I think it's pretty safe to assume the pump will draw a sample, then run in reverse (for a user programmed amount of time, depending on the length of the hose) to return the water in the line to the sump. If Neptune wanted to get fancy they could time how long it takes to get the sample and then run the pump in reverse for that amount of time +2 seconds or something along those lines.

We will see how obvious it is when @Terence responds. I feel that the product foolows the spirit of Jim's design. That was for the tank to be continuously monitored, not every now and then.

 

[Reefcowboy]

We will see how obvious it is when @Terence responds. I feel that the product foolows the spirit of Jim's design. That was for the tank to be continuously monitored, not every now and then.

Thanks for the info Gregg

 

[Terence]

I think you need to test at least once per day if not a couple times per day. IMO, it really just depends how much water is used per test. If it uses a couple mls of water per test, and the hoses getting to the unit hold 10 - 20 mls, if you test twice a week, your reading will be from water that has been in the hose a coupe weeks ago. Of course this is an exaggeration because the new incoming water will be diluted with the water already in the tube. I just think that is a concern. I would really like to know how often @Terence recommends that we test to prevent this issue. I assume not as often as others since doing 3 different tests is going to sample more water than many of the other Alk monitors on the market.

I will have more information and answer more questions in the coming weeks. Right now I am sitting in a plane here in NO waiting to take off.

The Trident does clear the line and actually counter to intuition, by design, it uses FAR less tank water and creates far less waste than the alk monitor on the market as well as those shown but not yet on the market. Right now we are seeing less than 15ml of total waste for all three tests combined.

It should also be noted that there is no requirement for RODI rinse water.

 

[TonapahNorth]

How big do you think it is? And is it really just two lines in and out with a one link power chord?

Yeah that was it. It pulls from the tank to test and then discharges. I don't recall the frequency of the testing but I know that he couldn't manually force it to test because it had auto tested within 30 minutes. It was running quite a bit at the show.

If you look at the picture in the original post, the white Neptune medallion attached the beads is about 2.5" ... I have one of those and I'll measure it and edit if it's different. I am thinking it might be the size of a decent football. The intake and discharge tubes were very thin. I didn't feel them but they were very flexible and slightly smaller than the hard RO lines. The shape is going to be dictated by the size and shape of the reagent bottles I imagine. The guy I talked to (Terence was always busy) told me that they think the sweet spot on the bottle size is where they designed it - about 30 -45 days of reagent. It's honestly a nice looking piece of machinery. It wont be ugly on my shelf IMO. It looked nice ... more importantly, it works. It just works.

 

[Adam Baggett]

I am a little sad that my Apex Gold Classic is not going to work with this. I would get one if it did, but I am not simply going to upgrade my Apex to get it. :(

 

[gcarroll]

I will have more information and answer more questions in the coming weeks. Right now I am sitting in a plane here in NO waiting to take off.

The Trident does clear the line and actually counter to intuition, by design, it uses FAR less tank water and creates far less waste than the alk monitor on the market as well as those shown but not yet on the market. Right now we are seeing less than 15ml of total waste for all three tests combined.

It should also be noted that there is no requirement for RODI rinse water.

Thanks @Terence! This was definitely for me the most Exciting news coming out of MACNA!

 

[jasonamyers]

Thanks @Terence! This was definitely for me the most Exciting news coming out of MACNA!

Exactly this is fantastic!

 

[David Cher]

I am a little sad that my Apex Gold Classic is not going to work with this. I would get one if it did, but I am not simply going to upgrade my Apex to get it. :(

i hope Apex can offer a upgrade promo just to change the head unit for the classic users and this offer include the international users as lot of offers are only meant for US only . Fingers crossed

 

[Smohr123]

I heard it will last up to 2 months

I heard from other videos with a Terence interview that it will be 120 alk, 60 calcium, and 60 mag tests. The default will be 4 alk tests per day, and 2 of the others per day, giving 30 day default.

Accuracy is +/- 0.1 dkh, and +/- 10ppm

 

[JimWelsh]

I will have more information and answer more questions in the coming weeks. Right now I am sitting in a plane here in NO waiting to take off.

The Trident does clear the line and actually counter to intuition, by design, it uses FAR less tank water and creates far less waste than the alk monitor on the market as well as those shown but not yet on the market. Right now we are seeing less than 15ml of total waste for all three tests combined.

It should also be noted that there is no requirement for RODI rinse water.

I just want to give my +1 to everything @Terence said.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I'm super excited about this!! I agree with those who have said that this is one of the best developments of late for this hobby!

I have read this whole thread, and to the question of backwards compatibility, I just keep thinking that at some point we should expect that Neptune will not be able to make every item backwards compatible for the classic (and by the way, I am a classic owner, so this issue directly affects me as well). In fact, as tech gets better, we should expect that yesteryear's models will be obsolete on pretty much any tech. If Neptune insists on making everything backwards compatible, then the hobby suffers because it is limited by what the classic is capable of. I say move forward. I'll also add that the classic is still perfectly capable of doing everything it did when we bought it, so it hasn't lost a single function... Assuming it was worth the price to us when we bought it for the control/monitor functions that it came with, there's really nothing we can legitimately complain about IMHO (since it does the job we bought it for).

To those who are trying to add the price of the Apex 2016 to the price of the Trident and say that the Trident's cost should be figured based on both units combined, that just doesn't make sense. No one figures pricing this way. If you're pricing Microsoft Office, no one tries (or should try) to argue that the actual cost of the software is whatever the software costs PLUS the price of the computer, or that the price of your new car stereo should be added to the price of the car to get it's "actual" price. I understand that some people are upset about having to upgrade, but the pricing conversation just doesn't make sense... For the cost of the Apex 2016 + the Trident, you get...an Apex 2016 and a Trident (not just the Trident).

To the question of having to buy a whole new Apex 2016 kit because the brain isn't available by itself, this is the first development that isn't backwards compatible, so I'd say hold the criticism for the moment, and let's see what Neptune does to allow easy upgrade for those who just want the brain unit. This item was just unveiled at MACNA and won't be for sale until Q2 of 2018, so maybe Neptune will take some steps in the meantime to make this an accessible upgrade.

That's my take on the great debate in the thread. FWIW, can we celebrate the accomplishment that this tech represents, and wait until @Terence and crew are actually home from MACNA before passing judgment and sentence on their marketing of the device (particularly since it stands to reason that more info will be forthcoming between now and when the unit is actually available)?

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Hopefully the will add a separate module to get it to work with the classic. For an additional $100-200, this would be the way to go for me.
Would like to keep my Apex Classic running, Trident looks great, but agree that this would not be the reason for me to switch... Separate module seems like a great solution for owners of the classic..

 

[Jonty]

I like that the current ALk monitoring units use a PH probe and not reagents, we have all heard of or experienced issues with bad reagent batches, when this happens with the Neptune Trident it will be a painfull issue. I assume that MG is just calculated since they are testing for ALK and Ca the MG can just be calculated?

 

[Reefer525XL]

I like that the current ALk monitoring units use a PH probe and not reagents, we have all heard of or experienced issues with bad reagent batches, when this happens with the Neptune Trident it will be a painfull issue. I assume that MG is just calculated since they are testing for ALK and Ca the MG can just be calculated?

The units with a pH probe still use reagents.

 

[Reefer525XL]

The 2016 Base unit is sold in the UK so maybe we should ask Neptune why it is not sold in the US.

http://www.h2oaquatics.co.uk/aquarium-computers/apexbase-unit-2016

https://www.neptunestore.eu/en/neptune-systems-apex-2016-base-unit.html (out of stock)

 

[Zaffor]

For 583$ US!
** sitting back to watch more folks complain **

 

[Sleepydoc]

Thank you @Terrance for chiming in!

I just watched the video again and from that I got:

• Tests Alk, Ca & Mg, unlike other systems that only test Alk.
• Accuracy 0.05 DKH for Alk, 10 ppm for Ca & Mg
• (Proposed) Price for the system is $500-600
• $40 for a '2 month' supply of reagents based on 4 tests/day for Alk & 2 tests/day for Ca/Mg = 240 Alk tests, 120 Ca tests and 120 Mg tests
• Averaging out the cost gives just over $0.08 per test ($40/480)
  • Based on BRS' prices, the cost for a Salifert test is approximately $0.15 for Alk, $0.38 for Ca, $0.36 for Mg, making the (proposed) reagent costs for the Trident significantly cheaper
• You can test less frequently than that; they don't say what the shelf life of the reagents is. Presumably they will go bad at some point
• In the interview with Mark (Mr. Saltwater Tank), Terrance was pretty clear that it will not be compatible with the Apex classic for 'a variety of technical reasons.' (The classic/20116 issue has already been beaten to death here and is off topic for the thread, so I'll refrain from further discussion.)
• It will plug into a 1Link port
• It works by titration. They don't state this, but I presume it would be some sort of optical absorption reading, similar to Hana checkers.
• It's unclear how it will keep the tubing clean, primed, etc for accurate sampling. Terrance has reportedly stated it will not use RO/DI water. presumably uses a peristaltic pump to backwash the tubing.
• I haven't seen anything definitive regarding how much waste the system produces or how often the waste bottle will need to be emptied. Salifert's tests use 2-4ml, so presumably something on this order.
• Results will be added automatically to your Fusion page.
• Potential for integration with dosing systems in the future, nothing current, though. (Honestly, I don't know if I would consider the risk of such automation to be worth the convenience.)
• Released to 'Neptune Insiders' for beta testing early 2018, target for sales to begin around the 'middle of 2018' Hopefully this doesn't turn
• Terrance didn't say if it would work as a stand-alone product, but my presumption is that it wouldn't. It would honestly be nice if it did - that would widen he market and let people with Classics use it as well. Based on Terrance's statements about needing the Apex 2016, it would seem that the control/processing for the Trident occurs in the Apex brain and not in the Trident unit itself, so they would need some sort of additional brain for it to work as a stand alone device.

Does all this seem accurate?

 

[VelocityTech]

I'm super excited about this!! I agree with those who have said that this is one of the best developments of late for this hobby!

I have read this whole thread, and to the question of backwards compatibility, I just keep thinking that at some point we should expect that Neptune will not be able to make every item backwards compatible for the classic (and by the way, I am a classic owner, so this issue directly affects me as well). In fact, as tech gets better, we should expect that yesteryear's models will be obsolete on pretty much any tech. If Neptune insists on making everything backwards compatible, then the hobby suffers because it is limited by what the classic is capable of. I say move forward. I'll also add that the classic is still perfectly capable of doing everything it did when we bought it, so it hasn't lost a single function... Assuming it was worth the price to us when we bought it for the control/monitor functions that it came with, there's really nothing we can legitimately complain about IMHO (since it does the job we bought it for).

To those who are trying to add the price of the Apex 2016 to the price of the Trident and say that the Trident's cost should be figured based on both units combined, that just doesn't make sense. No one figures pricing this way. If you're pricing Microsoft Office, no one tries (or should try) to argue that the actual cost of the software is whatever the software costs PLUS the price of the computer, or that the price of your new car stereo should be added to the price of the car to get it's "actual" price. I understand that some people are upset about having to upgrade, but the pricing conversation just doesn't make sense... For the cost of the Apex 2016 + the Trident, you get...an Apex 2016 and a Trident (not just the Trident).

To the question of having to buy a whole new Apex 2016 kit because the brain isn't available by itself, this is the first development that isn't backwards compatible, so I'd say hold the criticism for the moment, and let's see what Neptune does to allow easy upgrade for those who just want the brain unit. This item was just unveiled at MACNA and won't be for sale until Q2 of 2018, so maybe Neptune will take some steps in the meantime to make this an accessible upgrade.

That's my take on the great debate in the thread. FWIW, can we celebrate the accomplishment that this tech represents, and wait until @Terence and crew are actually home from MACNA before passing judgment and sentence on their marketing of the device (particularly since it stands to reason that more info will be forthcoming between now and when the unit is actually available)?

I Highly agree! The upgrade cost needs to be factored seperately. There is no reason to get our Underwear on a bunch and knock a wonderful thing!! Just yet.

In my case, I was shy of the 2016 model by only 2 months. And being it's less than 2 years old: I sure hope they offer the upgrade path.
It's way to early to jump to conclusions!

With that said:

This product is going to change and re write every Dosing recommendation we know today as "The Best". After all, Hobbyist are the ones that write our 'Guide Book' of Recommendations!

Very excited for this to unravel!

Now if Only we could feed frozen food remotely.. we could spend 2 weeks away comfortable.

 

[Kyl]

The 2016 Base unit is sold in the UK so maybe we should ask Neptune why it is not sold in the US.

http://www.h2oaquatics.co.uk/aquarium-computers/apexbase-unit-2016

https://www.neptunestore.eu/en/neptune-systems-apex-2016-base-unit.html (out of stock)

AFIAK it's for sale in the UK as such because there is no option for a localised version of the EB832 for them.