NO3 & PO4 . . . Why can't I get this right?

[esther]

If they're skinny, they need more. If they're fat, they need less. It's no more complicated then that.

Haha. Love it.

 

[New&no clue]

Here is what I did when I had super high phosphate and nitrates (.9 phosphate and 50 Nitrates). I had good growth, but I noticed a lot of algae popping up all over (bubble, hair, cyano).

1. Water changes- lots in small amounts. Phosphates and Nitrates bind to rocks so when you start to drop the rocks release what they are holding which creates a yo-yo affect. You could test today and be at .2 and then tomorrow be at .4, that could just be the rocks releasing it. I did 7 gallons every three day on a 90 gallons of water for 2 weeks. I tested regularly to make sure I wasn't bottoming out.

2. Cut coral feeding to once a week. I noticed in the BRS food the have Reef Roids which are really high in phosphates. Corals get a lot of food from the fish poop and sunlight so the extra we give them doesn't need to be daily. I feed 4-5 pellets in the morning and a cube of frozen mysis at night. Once a week, the day before a water change, I mix 1/2tsp of Reef Roids with a cube a mysis and spot feed my corals. I also put a sheet of Nori in each day, however, I pull it at night as Nori is high in Nitrates so you don't want to leave it in all day.

3. I added a bag of Phosguard that I change one a month.

4. I added more live rock to the sump as this is a good converter of nutrients

It took probably 2-3 months to drop it down to .19 phosphate and 15 Nitrates. I'm happy with it there as I have softies and they like the water a little dirtier.

 

[Daniel92481]

+1 ^ Reef chili and reef roids are really high on phosphates. Use sparingly. Your corals don’t need it.

 

[esther]

Here is what I did when I had super high phosphate and nitrates (.9 phosphate and 50 Nitrates). I had good growth, but I noticed a lot of algae popping up all over (bubble, hair, cyano).

1. Water changes- lots in small amounts. Phosphates and Nitrates bind to rocks so when you start to drop the rocks release what they are holding which creates a yo-yo affect. You could test today and be at .2 and then tomorrow be at .4, that could just be the rocks releasing it. I did 7 gallons every three day on a 90 gallons of water for 2 weeks. I tested regularly to make sure I wasn't bottoming out.

2. Cut coral feeding to once a week. I noticed in the BRS food the have Reef Roids which are really high in phosphates. Corals get a lot of food from the fish poop and sunlight so the extra we give them doesn't need to be daily. I feed 4-5 pellets in the morning and a cube of frozen mysis at night. Once a week, the day before a water change, I mix 1/2tsp of Reef Roids with a cube a mysis and spot feed my corals. I also put a sheet of Nori in each day, however, I pull it at night as Nori is high in Nitrates so you don't want to leave it in all day.

3. I added a bag of Phosguard that I change one a month.

4. I added more live rock to the sump as this is a good converter of nutrients

It took probably 2-3 months to drop it down to .19 phosphate and 15 Nitrates. I'm happy with it there as I have softies and they like the water a little dirtier.

Super helpful. Thanks!

 

[esther]

Vacuumed out the sump yesterday and did a 20g water change (nothing crazy). NO3 (25) & PO4 (0.24) are still stable at the same numbers they have been. Just tested this morning.

I'm carefully weighing the food I'm feeding (Target is 3g a day for this week). Still going to feed the BRS food because it's made and I don't want to waste it. Trying to do this methodically and will continue to measure everything out daily.

Added 10ml of NOPOX this morning as well.

 

[Reef.]

The reef chili I would think would be a better option than the pellets, both for the fish and the parameter issue, maybe next time you make it, drop all the power foods and coral foods in the recipe if you added them, you can always add them separately if you want.

 

[esther]

The reef chili I would think would be a better option than the pellets, both for the fish and the parameter issue, maybe next time you make it, drop all the power foods and coral foods that recipe has.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to be doing a process of elimination on the next recipe.

 

[MERKEY]

+1 to feed less as everyone else stated lol

I'm in the same boat and holding my po4 at .1 with phosgaurd at 1c per week for a 75g and 1/2c per week for a 32g. My no3 stays around 20

I feed the fish twice daily a mix of mysis, blood worms, brine shrimp, and spirulina...about a half inch cube of it all mixed.

I feed corals 3 times a week with

Benepets
Reefroids
Oyster feast
About 10ml of this mix

Red sea AB+ 10ml

I tried to feed once a week but I noticed less vibrancy from my corals. I am ok with running phosgaurd as my corals are super happy

This is a battle we all have

 

[SPSReeferMI]

@esther Thanks for examining this issue. It’s timely for me as I have a smaller Waterbox (the 170) and a similar challenge with higher phosphate and nitrate.

I’m not suggesting that you change your approach, but I’m curious if you considered using the refugium for the Waterbox? I’m asking because I feel like the refugium might be too small and it’s not keeping my phosphates and nitrates in check.

 

[esther]

+1 to feed less as everyone else stated lol

I'm in the same boat and holding my po4 at .1 with phosgaurd at 1c per week for a 75g and 1/2c per week for a 32g. My no3 stays around 20

I feed the fish twice daily a mix of mysis, blood worms, brine shrimp, and spirulina...about a half inch cube of it all mixed.

I feed corals 3 times a week with

Benepets
Reefroids
Oyster feast
About 10ml of this mix

Red sea AB+ 10ml

I tried to feed once a week but I noticed less vibrancy from my corals. I am ok with running phosgaurd as my corals are super happy

This is a battle we all have

I've always had high PO4... Basically attributed it to the dry rock we put in the tank. Figured it's just leaching phosphate. Have been using ROWAphos for about 4 months now and it was working great. Nitrates were always at 10ppm. It wasn't until the last couple of weeks that it's been sitting at 25ppm. That's when I decided to use NOPOX. Seeing as though you need some PO4 for this to actually work, I removed the ROWAphos and am just using NOPOX with reduced feeding to see if I can get it back in check.

Once I do, I'm going to slowly increase feeding to where levels stay stable and will add ROWAphos back in and stop using NOPOX.

 

[esther]

@esther Thanks for examining this issue. It’s timely for me as I have a smaller Waterbox (the 170) and a similar challenge with higher phosphate and nitrate.

I’m not suggesting that you change your approach, but I’m curious if you considered using the refugium for the Waterbox? I’m asking because I feel like the refugium might be too small and it’s not keeping my phosphates and nitrates in check.

I am using the refugium currently. Yes, it's smaller than I'd like, but it's something. Have come Chaeto in there right now and using an LED from Amazon. Growth has been slow, but I think it may be enough once I get more Chaeto in there. Hard to tell, currently.

 

[esther]

So, it’s been two weeks. Nitrate hasn’t come down. I’ve only been dosing 10ml a day of NOPOX. Should I up it to 15ml and do that for two weeks? Also, PO4 kept rising so I finally put ROWAphos back in the tank and it’s down to 0.10. Very happy about that. I’m contemplating getting a new Nitrate test to rule that out. Thoughts?

NOTE: I test daily.

 

[Reef.]

A new test to check would be good, both salifert and nyos are good, if using the salifert a good way to judge the correct colour on the chart is to use a 2nd test tube of just tank water, the same amount as for the test, so for the salifert 1ml, put the plain water over the colour and the one with the reagents in on the white part of the card, when the 2 match that’s your reading, if you do that the salifert is very good.

what lvl do you want? If you are still around 25 nitrates and now .1 phosphate I don’t think you need to anything drastic, unless you are going for an ultra low nutrient tank, a water change will bring that down a bit more, if it doesn’t I would look to where the nitrate is coming from rather than just dosing to get rid of it, if it’s not coming from food then where?

2 weeks is not a long time, unless it’s an emergency I would look to make changes very slowly, I don’t think you are at that point to be trying to add a higher dose or other options yet.

 

[esther]

A new test to check would be good, both salifert and nyos are good, if using the salifert a good way to judge the correct colour on the chart is to use a 2nd test tube of just tank water, the same amount as for the test, so for the salifert 1ml, put the plain water over the colour and the one with the reagents in on the white part of the card, when the 2 match that’s your reading, if you do that the salifert is very good.

what lvl do you want? If you are still around 25 nitrates and now .1 phosphate I don’t think you need to anything drastic, unless you are going for an ultra low nutrient tank, a water change will bring that down a bit more, if it doesn’t I would look to where the nitrate is coming from rather than just dosing to get rid of it, if it’s not coming from food then where?

2 weeks is not a long time, unless it’s an emergency I would look to make changes very slowly, I don’t think you are at that point to be trying to add a higher dose or other options yet.

Good tip on the salifert test. That's what I'm using. I was actually thinking of using the hanna test tubes for the test instead of the salifert plastic test vial to see if I get the same results.

I'm looking to get back down to 5-10ppm of NO3. Do you think I should just continue the 10ml a day of the NOPOX for another two weeks and then up it to 15ml after a month of dosing 10ml/day? It's definitely not an emergency.

 

[Reef.]

Good tip on the salifert test. That's what I'm using. I was actually thinking of using the hanna test tubes for the test instead of the salifert plastic test vial to see if I get the same results.

I'm looking to get back down to 5-10ppm of NO3. Do you think I should just continue the 10ml a day of the NOPOX for another two weeks and then up it to 15ml after a month of dosing 10ml/day? It's definitely not an emergency.

if you are not having any major issues, yes I would carry on for a while longer, 25 is not high, and 2 weeks is a very short time to see results, you don’t want to see big changes fast, that would cause their own issues.

keep a very close eye on the rowaphos, that can strip phosphate down to 0 very fast, and you don’t want that, being at .1 you are in the range where you want to be, you can come down a bit more but not much, again if you are not having any issues there is no rush.

Just to add, you can use the glass tubes for the salifert if looking down, not when looking from the side as the side is magnified to give the correct reading when doing the low range tests.

 

[esther]

if you are not having any major issues, yes I would carry on for a while longer, 25 is not high, and 2 weeks is a very short time to see results, you don’t want to see big changes fast, that would cause their own issues.

keep a very close eye on the rowaphos, that can strip phosphate down to 0 very fast, and you don’t want that, being at .1 you are in the range where you want to be, you can come down a bit more but not much, again if you are not having any issues there is no rush.

I test NO3 & PO4 every morning. I think my rocks are leaching PO4 slowly. They were dry when we got them. I think once my PO4 gets down to 0.05 to 0.08 I'll remove it. Will continue with the 10ml of NOPOX daily and try testing NO3 in my hanna vials tomorrow morning and see if I get a different reading.

 

[Reef.]

I test NO3 & PO4 every morning. I think my rocks are leaching PO4 slowly. They were dry when we got them. I think once my PO4 gets down to 0.05 to 0.08 I'll remove it. Will continue with the 10ml of NOPOX daily and try testing NO3 in my hanna vials tomorrow morning and see if I get a different reading.

maybe but you are close to a reasonable reading now, you were adding powdered food so could be the last of that showing up, as above the glass tubes can be used for the tests when looking down, not from the side, I added that, think you missed it from the above post.

 

[esther]

So, I feel kind of dumb. I think I figured out my NO3 problem.... I spent like 2 hours watching skimmer videos this morning and I don't think I was using my skimmer to it's potential. I just adjusted it and all day the foam and gunk that's in the skimmer is unreal. I'm looking forward to checking my NO3 tomorrow morning to see if there is any difference.

 

[Reef.]

So, I feel kind of dumb. I think I figured out my NO3 problem.... I spent like 2 hours watching skimmer videos this morning and I don't think I was using my skimmer to it's potential. I just adjusted it and all day the foam and gunk that's in the skimmer is unreal. I'm looking forward to checking my NO3 tomorrow morning to see if there is any difference.

Great news, don’t be too surprised if the reading is not too different tomorrow, the skimmer is good but don’t expect a months reduction in one day, test over the week, as long as it’s coming down that’s the main thing, and remember our hobby grade test kits may not show the drop for a few days also.

 

[esther]

Great news, don’t be too surprised if the reading is not too different tomorrow, the skimmer is good but don’t expect a months reduction in one day, test over the week, as long as it’s coming down that’s the main thing, and remember our hobby grade test kits may not show the drop for a few days also.

Thanks! I'll continue to test every day like I have been. You should see the sludge in the skimmer... lol