Pacific Blue Tang

TroyClark

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Hello all,

I recently brought home a Pacific Blue Tang about 2 - 2 1/2 inches. I slowly acclimated it yesterday and placed in the QT at 1:00 pm. By 6:00 pm I went and checked on it and noticed that it has what I think is Ich. It looked great in the store, had been there approx. a month and eating well. About 4 hours after acclimation, I offered it some frozen Mysis shrimp and some spirulina brine shrimp which it ate well.

The QT tank I am using is a 45 hex with some live rock (some have a good purple coralline algae covering with areas turning pink from being out of water during tank cleaning) that previously (for the last 8 months) held a pair of Maroon Clowns, a Blue Chromis and a few small mushrooms and Kenya tree corals. I am using an Aqua clear 70 hang on filter with a sponge and bag of bio media that is well established. Lighting is a 24" LED strip light with blue and white LEDs. The fish in there had never shown any problems of any kind. In fact, I have never experienced saltwater ich before, and I am very firm on an at least 30 day quarantine for anything that comes in to my fish room. I removed the Chromis and placed it in my DT. The clowns were traded to the LFS for the Tang. I performed an approx. 2/3 water change with RO/DI water (O TDS) and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals prior to placing the Tang in the QT. I checked on the fish this morning and while hiding (lights were off, using a flashlight to locate and observe), he seems normal as in good color and normal respiration.


My water parameters are as follows : (Copied and pasted)

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: - Previously a Reef tank with a pair of Maroon Clowns, a Blue Chromis, Mushroom and Kenya tree corals. Many keyhole limpets and 3 small snails (removed to another QT when I dosed meds)
Aquarium water volume - 45 Hex (figuring 40 gallons after taking into effect substrate and live rock)
Filtration type - Aqua clear 70 hang on filter with sponge and bag of bio media.
Lighting - 24" LED strip light with blue and white LEDS
How long has the aquarium been established? - At least 8 months
Digital image of the aquarium under white light - Will get tonight if needed.

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature - 78 F
pH: - 7.8
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.025 specific gravity
Ammonia - Undetectable
Nitrite - Undetectable
Nitrate - 1.0 ppm
Phosphorus - Unknown (will check tonight)
Copper - Unknown (don't have a test kit for copper)
Other - Unknown

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? - No
Are any invertebrates affected? - No
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) - Breathing seems normal.
Are the affected fish still feeding? - Yes
What remedies have you tried so far? - I have dosed (figuring 40 usable gallons of water) Metroplex (6 scoops from vial) and Cupramine (4 ml). Plan to re dose Cupramine (4 ml) on Tuesday night and leaving as is for at least 2-3 weeks to maintain therapeutic levels of copper.

Fish seems to be swimming around normally, hiding for a few minutes with new movement outside of tank but quickly resuming swimming and foraging.

Could it be possible that I always had ich but the fish were healthy enough to never show it? I am now nervous about the Blue Chromis that I placed into my DT possible being a carrier. Can ich manifest that quickly?

Thanks for reading, any and all help and/or questions are welcome.

Troy C.

P.S. will try and get some clearer pics tonight.


Blue Tang.jpg
 

Jay Hemdal

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Sorry! I missed your post yesterday...

Yes, the chromis can act as a disease vector even if it wasn’t showing ich spots at the time you moved it.
The picture of the blue tang could be showing ich, but the shutter speed was slow and he spots looked stretched out.
I’m unclear - you’ve begun a copper treatment, but where did you move the soft corals? They can act as vectors also.
do you have a copper test kit? It is pretty important to test to check your dose along the way.
Jay
 
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TroyClark

TroyClark

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Thanks for the reply Jay.

Its hard to get a good picture since this little fish swims around a bunch cruising for food. I guess thats a good sign. I am tempted to remove all the live rock cover since he is a good hider when I get the camera out but am hesitant to stress him any more than he already might be. If I remove the rock, take some pictures and replace it with pieces of 3 inch pvc, will that provide him enough hiding spots to ease the stress? I guess that I wrongly assumed that an established tank with no fish in it would be the less stress on a fish during quarantine but that has blown up in my face....

I have dosed the tank with the initial dose of Cupramine (4ml for 42 gallons) and added 2 air stones to increase the oxygen level. I don't have a test kit but will pick one up from the LFS tonight. All they have is the API test so I hope it is accurate enough. I will do a second dose of the copper and test within the hour so I can dilute if need be.

I am not concerned about the small pieces of Kenya tree and tiny mushroom corals that are left in that tank. The majority of the corals in that tank were on one rock that I had already removed to a different 10 gallon QT since I was going to cut them loose and place them in a box with rock rubble to reattach to. The rock they are on has a bunch of Keyhole Limpets and I don't want those things in my DT.

I am hoping that those corals and rock didn't transfer any ich to the 10 gallon QT tank. I don't think so. It has a pair of black Sailfin Mollies that were acclimated to saltwater in that tank and they don't have any signs of ich. I would think that since they have no immune system for saltwater parasites that if that rock and coral were carriers of ich the mollies would be covered by now. Is that just wishful thinking or am I correct in that assumption. The 10 gallon QT also has 3 small Bangii Cardinals that are being observed for 30 days. They show no signs on any problems. I usually don't treat during my 30 day quarantine unless I have to.

I really do appreciate your insight and help with this. Coming from the freshwater world of Discus and Angels, I have to say this Reef stuff will keep you on your toes.....

Thanks

Troy C.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I've used the API test kit, it works fairly well, but some people (myself included) have difficulty telling the color gradations apart.

Hard to say if ich got transferred to your 10 gallon,l time will tell. Yes, the mollies will show it very plainly due to their coloration.

Jay
 
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TroyClark

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I am now thinking I might have jumped the gun here. Checked on the fish when I got home and he looked fine, no white spots. I went ahead and removed the rock to get a better look and in doing so kicked up some substrate dust which stuck to the fish making him look like he did on Sunday when I thought it was ich. Now after swimming and sulking a bit, the dust has fallen off and he looks fine again. Should I go ahead with the copper treatment or wait and observe some more now that I can see him better without the rock in there?

I went to the LFS to get the copper test and looked at the other Hippo Tang that was in the same tank as the one I got and its looks fine, no white spots either.

Hopefully I just panicked....
 

Jay Hemdal

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maybe, but in the early stages, ich parasites can be in sync - dropping off all at the same time, reproducing and then their offspring return and reinfect the fish. dont drop your guard just yet!

Jay
 
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TroyClark

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I guess it helps if you wear your reading glasses.......
 

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Jay Hemdal

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Yes, that picture is better. This does seem to be ich. There is only one other thing it could be - idiopathic mucus production, where for no reason, fish develop mucus secretions on their skin that look like ich. They are usually larger spots than ich, and not nearly as numerous as your fish shows, so that's why I'm still leaning towards ich.

Was this picture taken before the spots dropped off, or did they drop off and come back already?

Jay
 
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TroyClark

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Dropped off and came back I think.

He is now staying in a bottom corner since I took the live rock out. I put 3 pieces of 3 inch pvc in there for him to hide in once he accepts them. Still swimming some when I am not in front of the tank. Gave him some Selcon soaked mysis shrimp and I think he ate a few pieces. I have purple seaweed on a clip so its available at all times. Tried some green seaweed but he didn't touch it yesterday. Appears to be scratching himself on the substrate every once in a while.

I think I am going to set up a sterile 20 gallon QT tank to transfer him into tonight after work. I really assumed the tank with substrate and live rock would help him acclimate better but that theory is now bust. The copper test read about .25 after a 2nd dose. Did a little research and learned that live rock and aragonite substrate can absorb the copper making keeping it at proper levels very difficult. The 20 gallon tank I have is painted on all sides but one end panel so it should help keep him calm. I will not put a light on it so its a bit darker but spill over light from the rest of the room should light it up some.

Thanks

Troy C.
 
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TroyClark

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Jay,

I have been reading up on the Tank Transfer Method of getting rid of ich. What are your thoughts on that method? It really sounds easy enough.... And only 14 days........

Thanks
 

Jay Hemdal

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Jay,

I have been reading up on the Tank Transfer Method of getting rid of ich. What are your thoughts on that method? It really sounds easy enough.... And only 14 days........

Thanks
So - here is a funny thing, I've never used it myself! I quarantine 800 gallon tanks of fish at a time, so this method simply doesn't translate to that scale. I understand how it works, but I usually do not recommend it. I've seen too many issues with ammonia build-up, and handling stress. It does work, but you need to be very careful about those too issues.

Jay
 
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TroyClark

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I moved Dori (my daughter names all fish LOL) to a sterile 10 gallon tank and moved the power filter and heater also. Air stone added (plastic). I added 2ml of Cupramine as the tank Dori was in had first dose of Cupramine already. The 2ml should have brought the water to copper reading to .5. I did 3 separate tests and they all read the same and we all agreed that it was reading at .25. Dosed 1ml of Cupramine and will retest here in an hour or so.

My bottle of Cupramine is anywhere from a year to 5 years old, maybe even older. Can my bottle be diluted because of age? Seachems website says it has an indefinite shelf life.

Thanks
 
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TroyClark

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Update :

Dori looks great. Haven't seen a spec in over 10 days. Have maintained a copper level of .5 for 17 days now. Is that long enough or should I keep it up for a couple more weeks? Her appetite seems good. Feeding NLS pellets and purple nori with some BBS and frozen mysis.

Thanks
 

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Update :

Dori looks great. Haven't seen a spec in over 10 days. Have maintained a copper level of .5 for 17 days now. Is that long enough or should I keep it up for a couple more weeks? Her appetite seems good. Feeding NLS pellets and purple nori with some BBS and frozen mysis.

Thanks
I would go for a full 25 to 30 days. When your done though, where is the fish going to move to? You need to be certain that the destination tank has no chance of having ich in it.

Jay
 

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