Pellet Food for Eels

[piranhaman00]

Hello,

I have a Jeweled Moray eel that eats extremely well. I feed him shrimp, clams, oysters, squid from a tongs. This particular mix of food I cannot find at a decent price anymore. I am looking at doing large carnivore pellets. I think he would grab them off a tongs easily, anyone feed there large preds, eels in particular, pellets?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Never tried that! There was a company selling a semisolid extruded pellet years ago, but my eels and other carnivores didn’t find it palatable. Then again, if any moray would take a pellet it would be a jewel(grin)
Jay

 

[Privateye]

I have no experience weaning morays, but i had a very finicky datnoid (freshwater) that I eventually weaned. The trick was finding things that look very similar to the last step. I had him for 2 years before I finally tried this method.

He started eating fresh meat only. I then got him from shrimp to frozen krill. From there I went to Tetra Jumbomin sticks, which are very similar in size and color to the frozen krill. He wouldn't take them initially, but after the krill he did.

Now he's a pig. He won't touch the Hikari version of the sticks though (Massivore), but for some reason he loves their algae wafers!

 

[vetteguy53081]

There are certain fish that won’t eat pellets. I classify banghai cardinals, eels and copperband butterfly as some that won’t But you never know- my copperband eating machine just started consuming pellets now too

 

[lion king]

I really don't think it's a good idea, fish like this nutritionally need the types of food you have been feeding. Artificially enriched pellets is just no substitute. If you an Asian market in your neck of the woods, check it out to save money.

Since an eel is going to eat his full, I would bet they will over eat the pellets, and when they expand may create a serious issue.

 

[piranhaman00]

I really don't think it's a good idea, fish like this nutritionally need the types of food you have been feeding. Artificially enriched pellets is just no substitute. If you an Asian market in your neck of the woods, check it out to save money.

Since an eel is going to eat his full, I would bet they will over eat the pellets, and when they expand may create a serious issue.

Thanks everyone, I am not going to try it.

 

[Clowning_Around72]

Thanks everyone, I am not going to try it.

Ok so here is what I can add if you don't mind:
1. Pellets may assist as a substitute food periodically to the meaty foods if you can not feed the good stuff as often.
2. Snowflakes can 100% be weaned on to pellets and it cannot hurt to try with your eel species.
3. Stick to pellets for less feedings than meaty foods.

 

[piranhaman00]

I really don't think it's a good idea, fish like this nutritionally need the types of food you have been feeding. Artificially enriched pellets is just no substitute. If you an Asian market in your neck of the woods, check it out to save money.

Since an eel is going to eat his full, I would bet they will over eat the pellets, and when they expand may create a serious issue.

I found some posts you have about thiaminase in silversides, what is your current stance on that? I thought I read Hikari silversides on LA do not contain it.

 

[lion king]

I found some posts you have about thiaminase in silversides, what is your current stance on that? I thought I read Hikari silversides on LA do not contain it.

Yes Hikari brand sikversides is a variety of fish that does not contain thiaminese. Silversides is like a nickname that will encompass a few species of fish. If the brand of silversides don't list the variety of fish they use or you can't find it, it is likely rainbow smelt, and rainbow smelt does contain a good amount of thiaminese. I think the guts(although dead) and the bones are an important part of nutrition for the eels. The fresher the better and. the shells on the shrimp, trimmed safely of course as other food. Shrimp also contains thiaminese but ata lesser amount, andbas with anything should only be a portion of diet.

 

[Privateye]

On the topic of thiaminase, an all-shrimp diet will produce a thiamine deficiency too. I was told this by a former boss, who managed a research/production salmon and trout hatchery. They found out first-hand. If you do meaty foods, variety is definitely ideal.

I fully support the use of high-protein pellets though, especially as a partial (staple?) diet. Know your animal, find a good nutritional profile for a strict carnivore, and nutritionally it is likely more-complete than any one type of meat. Think about it, you know how many fish farms there are worldwide? They feed pellets through the whole life cycles of many fishes. The thing is, we feed diets for a variety of fishes. In aquaculture you can buy salmon diets, sturgeon diets, catfish diets, etc. We have to be a little more selective when finding pellets for ornamentals though.

Also, do not feed a freshwater diet to a saltwater fish long-term. Saltwater fishes need many more fatty acids in their diet than freshwater fishes. Freshwater fishes are much better at synthesizing fatty acids from other ones than saltwater fishes.

 

[lion king]

On the topic of thiaminase, an all-shrimp diet will produce a thiamine deficiency too. I was told this by a former boss, who managed a research/production salmon and trout hatchery. They found out first-hand. If you do meaty foods, variety is definitely ideal.

I fully support the use of high-protein pellets though, especially as a partial (staple?) diet. Know your animal, find a good nutritional profile for a strict carnivore, and nutritionally it is likely more-complete than any one type of meat. Think about it, you know how many fish farms there are worldwide? They feed pellets through the whole life cycles of many fishes. The thing is, we feed diets for a variety of fishes. In aquaculture you can buy salmon diets, sturgeon diets, catfish diets, etc. We have to be a little more selective when finding pellets for ornamentals though.

Yes I have mentioned that a shrimp dominant diet will also produce a vit B1 defiencency. When you reference diets at fish farms you have to take in consideration they are not keeping these fish as pets hoping for a 10-20 year lifespan. Sadly mostly because of a poor diet, these eels barely live 2 years in captivity, and many ignorant people teach 4 years is good. A well kept small moray if gotten as a juvi could easily be with you 12-15 years. But if he is fed krill, silversides, and frozen shrimp without shells as his main diet; he will be lucky to live 2 years. I used that diet as a reference to the most common diet fed eels and predatory fish like lions, etc. I see literally 100s of snowflakes sold every year in my city alone, yet I know no one who has a full grown adult.

 

[Privateye]

Yes I have mentioned that a shrimp dominant diet will also produce a vit B1 defiencency. When you reference diets at fish farms you have to take in consideration they are not keeping these fish as pets hoping for a 10-20 year lifespan. Sadly mostly because of a poor diet, these eels barely live 2 years in captivity, and many ignorant people teach 4 years is good. A well kept small moray if gotten as a juvi could easily be with you 12-15 years. But if he is fed krill, silversides, and frozen shrimp without shells as his main diet; he will be lucky to live 2 years. I used that diet as a reference to the most common diet fed eels and predatory fish like lions, etc. I see literally 100s of snowflakes sold every year in my city alone, yet I know no one who has a full grown adult.

Agreed! A varied and nutritionally-complete diet is ideal.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes Hikari brand sikversides is a variety of fish that does not contain thiaminese. Silversides is like a nickname that will encompass a few species of fish. If the brand of silversides don't list the variety of fish they use or you can't find it, it is likely rainbow smelt, and rainbow smelt does contain a good amount of thiaminese. I think the guts(although dead) and the bones are an important part of nutrition for the eels. The fresher the better and. the shells on the shrimp, trimmed safely of course as other food. Shrimp also contains thiaminese but ata lesser amount, andbas with anything should only be a portion of diet.

I put together a list of high and low thiaminase food items for my upcoming fish disease book. I like to list the low thiaminase items as well, so people can preferentially feed them. Of course, this is only one nutrient issue, and the way I get around it is to supplement ALL my seafood items with Mazuri Thiamin E paste (because seafood diet are also often low in E). Trouble is, that is a Zoo/Aquarium product and not available for home use. There are really only a couple of references for this, so you all may have seen a similar list, but here it is:

Thiaminase

Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiamin. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)


Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

 

[piranhaman00]

I put together a list of high and low thiaminase food items for my upcoming fish disease book. I like to list the low thiaminase items as well, so people can preferentially feed them. Of course, this is only one nutrient issue, and the way I get around it is to supplement ALL my seafood items with Mazuri Thiamin E paste (because seafood diet are also often low in E). Trouble is, that is a Zoo/Aquarium product and not available for home use. There are really only a couple of references for this, so you all may have seen a similar list, but here it is:

Thiaminase

Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiamin. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)


Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

Im confused, what seafood should I use then? Mussels, clams, scallops and shrimp are all recommended everywhere yet contain high concentrations.

 

[lion king]

Im confused, what seafood should I use then? Mussels, clams, scallops and shrimp are all recommended everywhere yet contain high concentrations.

It's a balancing act, foods high enough in vitamin B1 need to offered to offset any negative effects from thiaminese. Any known sources of thiaminese need to be extremely limited. Prawns are a variety o f shrimp which doesn't have thiaminese, I believe even regular shrimp is worth feeding occasionally for the benefit of the shells. I grill salmon at least weekly, I slice off a bit for my preds that will partake, salmon is high in vitamin B1. Fang tooth eels will benefit greatly from fatty fish like salmoñ. You can search an find expanded list of low/no thiaminese foods and foods high in vitamin B1. Supplementation may also help but thats complicated in its own right, just as in humans some can become toxic.

 

[lion king]

Just for something to ponder, I started keeping lionfish 30 years, when yes, goldfish was the diet. I keep lions for 5 years plus on goldfish and rosies. I stumbled onto my dead diet for lions by just feeding them what I was eating. Today with the whole "train your pred" school of thought, the difficulty in feeding and lack of nutritional knowledge. Most people keeping predatory fish today rarely keep them even 2 years.

 

[Privateye]

To the OP, this may seem confusing at first but adequate nutrition is about as important as adequate water quality, but without the short-term consequences. This is all good info if it's new to you. Fish nutrition is almost inseparable from disease, as it affects health and often immunity too.

Try to mix in some things from Jay's good list, with things from the other one. Just because some of these things have thiaminase doesn't mean they're not part of a healthy diet. Just don't stick to the naughty list exclusively, or problems may occur. Who knows, 5-10 years down the road you may think "huh, I wonder if all those steps I took from that random thread contributed to the lifespan of my eel?"

 

[Squeaky McMurdo]

I put together a list of high and low thiaminase food items for my upcoming fish disease book. I like to list the low thiaminase items as well, so people can preferentially feed them. Of course, this is only one nutrient issue, and the way I get around it is to supplement ALL my seafood items with Mazuri Thiamin E paste (because seafood diet are also often low in E). Trouble is, that is a Zoo/Aquarium product and not available for home use. There are really only a couple of references for this, so you all may have seen a similar list, but here it is:

Thiaminase

Thiaminase is an enzyme that metabolizes or breaks down thiamine (vitamin B1). In high enough concentrations in food, thiaminase will create thiamin deficient diets in fish. This is a common, yet serious problem with predatory fish that are fed feeder goldfish, as goldfish are very high in thiaminase. Lionfish, piranha and oscars cichlids were commonly fed all-goldfish diets by home aquarists. Health issues in their fish were then very common; fatty liver disease in lionfish, pica in piranha (where they eat each other to try to get more thiamin) and HLLE in oscars. Fresh seafoods known to be high in thiaminase can be supplemented with thiamin. Conversely, aquarists can avoid feeding fresh seafoods known to be high in thiamin. The following is a partial list of seafoods that contain thiaminase:

Species high in thiaminase
Anchovy (Engraulis sp.)
Atlantic herring (Clupea harengus)
Capelin (Mallotus villosus)
Carp (Cyprinus carpio)
Clams (family Veneridae)
Goldfish (Carassius auratus)
Lobster (Homarus americanus)
Menhaden (Brevoortia spp.)
Minnows (Cyprinids)
Mussels (Mytilus spp.)
Rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax)
Sardine (Harengula spp.)
Scallops (Pecten spp.)
Shrimp and prawns (various species)
Skipjack tuna (Katsuwonus pelamis)
White bass (Morone chrysops)
Yellowfin tuna (Neothunnus macropterus)


Species lower in thiaminase
Atlantic cod (Gadus morhua)
Atlantic hake (Merluccius bilinearis)
Atlantic halibut (Hippoglossus hippoglossus)
Atlantic mackerel (Scomber scombrus)
Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar)
Brown trout (Salmo trutta)
Catfish (Ictalurus and related spp)
Cisco (Coregonus spp.)
Coho salmon (Oncorhynchus kisutch)
Flounder / sole (Pleuronectes and related spp.)
Haddock (Melanogrammus aeglefinus)
Hake (Urophycis spp)
Lake trout (Salvelinus namaycush)
Mullet (Mugilidae spp)
Poecilids (Guppies, platies, mollies)
Pollock/Pollack (Pollachius spp.)
Rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss)
Tilapia (Oreochromis spp)
Worms (Lumbricus spp)

Jay

I have been curious about this for a while now since my ability to get seafood in my small remote mountain town is rare. Do you think it would work to inject vitamin b complex in shrimp and other food choices before feeding them to marine predators? It is safe to give by mouth and is water soluble so any excess will be peed out.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have been curious about this for a while now since my ability to get seafood in my small remote mountain town is rare. Do you think it would work to inject vitamin b complex in shrimp and other food choices before feeding them to marine predators? It is safe to give by mouth and is water soluble so any excess will be peed out.

Yes, that works, but the trick is to figure a way to keep it all from rinsing right off when the food hits the water. The other issue is that fish diets are also commonly low in vit E, and that has to be calculated more closely since it is fat soluble.
Jay

 

[Hugh Mann]

Extremely informative. I'll be following this to make sure my eel is getting a good diet. Seems like it so far. At least as good as I can provide with what my local stores have. Haven't yet tried salmon though, mainly because of how expensive it is. Do you think feeding a predator like an eel fish would give it an inclination to try and eat tank mates, or is that more a risk feeding live vs dead?