PH at 8.0

[jdpeters]

I’m curious if it’s a detriment that my tank sits at about 8.0 PH with the lights on. I live in a smaller old house with little air exchange with the outside. Also there’s 6 o of us, a dog and a cat. There’s no real convenient way to run an airline outside without some really creative solutions but I’m not completely above drilling but I’d prefer not to if at all possible.

Tank is young 40 breeder with many small montipora, cyphastrea and favias.
Parameters
Salinity 1.026
Alk 8.8
Calcium 480
Mag 1375
Nitrate 10ppm
Phosphate.03

I have one available outlet spot left, dose a very minor amount of AFR with a single head doser. Currently not running my skimmer due to Dino’s and the AC pump hum.

If I only use about .1dkh a day, is it more viable option to dose Kalkwasser instead? I’ve quit water changing for the time being trying to battle Dino’s, it’s mostly under control. I’m trying to think what the most reasonable option is for me especially since my demands are so low. I’m also wondering if chasing a stable higher PH is even a concern. I feel my growth on my corals is pretty nil but they appear happy otherwise.

Would just getting a fuge light and some chaeto be a better option?
Is it possible to have a diluted kalk solution work on a doser?

Thanks for any feedback

 

[X-37B]

How low does it get at night?

 

[jdpeters]

How low does it get at night?

I haven’t tested. Thanks for asking. I will report back. I’m not about chasing numbers but I started having suspicions that my PH was going to be lower now that the house is closed up and it’s cold out. I know that PH can be a limiting factor

 

[Dogeatbird]

Concerning pH: whether to chase, or do not; a numerical value, ask yourself if you understand the physical chemistry behind the proposed addition of Kalkwasser(CaOh).

Kalk, as you know, has a saturation point in water, and as a replacement of top-off is limited to an evaporative by your setup. Additionally Kalk will add both Calcium and affect alkalinity. The Calcium is easy to see but alkalinity is a round about way.
Hydroxide ions bind dissolved CO2 to form Bicarbonate ion.

Addition of a Refugium, cycled photo-period opposite again may off set some pH swings. It will also compete for availability of NO3 - PO4

Nuisance dinoflagellate typically are more related to a microscopic biological diversity imbalance then to a specific husbandry issue. It(nuisance dinoflagellate) is a challenging subject,with a variety of responses. Based on your report parameters, IMO would not say you are nutrient deficient, nor would I say it is a mechanical defect in system design and operation. You can of course adjust your flow placement, aquascape, but try and only adjust one variable at a time. Any change can lead to a disruption which can trigger a change in bio-diversity.

In conclusion, follow that rabbit at your discretion. Studies, both scientific and anecdotal have seen an increase in calcification at pH or 8.3. Realism should be a consideration as the natural ocean mechanisms and hobbyists facsimile do differ.

 

[BryanM]

Ph is a range in our Tanks and 8 is fine, +/- .3 or so in both directions through the day is also fine:

 

[reefpanda]

Some can't even hit 8 no matter what they do, you'll be fine

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Kalk or sodium hydroxide will not be useful unless the alk demand is significant, such as 1 dKH per day or more. If you want to raise oh in a low alk demand tank, other means will be needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Additionally Kalk will add both Calcium and affect alkalinity. The Calcium is easy to see but alkalinity is a round about way.
Hydroxide ions bind dissolved CO2 to form Bicarbonate ion.

I don’t agree with that. The hydroxide added by kalk or sodium hydroxide is instantly detectable as alk, whether as hydroxide or when it converts to carbonate and bicarbonate (which happens in seconds anyway).

 

[Staghorn]

Do you have ph readings of when the skimmer was on? Running a line to the outside will only be useful if the skimmer or another piece of equipment injecting that air into the water is on. If you do run the skimmer you could consider a reactor with co2 absorbing media as well. In an effort to complicate things as much as possible I have my skimmer air intake line running to the outside now and actually just added a reactor to that line as well. I personally think that a stable ph as close to 8.4 as possible is beneficial to the corals. In my opinion the juice is worth the squeeze. Good Luck with everything.

 

[exnisstech]

Just stopping by to say that my SPS tank ran at 7.6 - 7.9 pH and did perfectly fine for close to 2 years. I did add a skimmer recently which has increased my pH and I am seeing better growth on my acros.

 

[Dogeatbird]

I don’t agree with that. The hydroxide added by kalk or sodium hydroxide is instantly detectable as alk, whether as hydroxide or when it converts to carbonate and bicarbonate (which happens in seconds anyway).

Measurement of alkalinity by acidic titration makes no distinction or prediction of the anion being neutralized. Rather the potential for the presence of a carbonic mineral is generally assumed due to the ease of the dissolution of carbonic minerals within an aqueous solvent.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Measurement of alkalinity by acidic titration makes no distinction or prediction of the anion being neutralized. Rather the potential for the presence of a carbonic mineral is generally assumed due to the ease of the dissolution of carbonic minerals within an aqueous solvent.

I don’t know what you are trying to say, but anything related to concerns about hydroxide dosing not being detectable or not being immediately nearly all bicarbonate and carbonate are not issues reefers need ever consider. There has long been misinformation in the hobby about hydroxide dosing.

 

[X-37B]

I haven’t tested. Thanks for asking. I will report back. I’m not about chasing numbers but I started having suspicions that my PH was going to be lower now that the house is closed up and it’s cold out. I know that PH can be

Just stopping by to say that my SPS tank ran at 7.6 - 7.9 pH and did perfectly fine for close to 2 years. I did add a skimmer recently which has increased my pH and I am seeing better growth on my acros.

Also seeing better growth from bringing my night time ph from 7.5-7.6 to 7.9 with the addition of Kalk.
Corals that were just hanging out have shown new visible growth.
Nothing else changed in my system.
I did remove the sulfer reactor which had an effluent of 6.7 so that helped too.
Running kalk 24/7 now at 3mlm.
Ato pics up the rest and keeps things stable.
I have been able to reduce my carx by 50%.
For someone who never really monitored ph and did well I can see the difference in my system as it's quite noticeable.
Not chasing ph but by bringing the low numbers up my system is responding well.

 

[exnisstech]

Also seeing better growth from bringing my night time ph from 7.5-7.6 to 7.9 with the addition of Kalk.
Corals that were just hanging out have shown new visible growth.
Nothing else changed in my system.
I did remove the sulfer reactor which had an effluent of 6.7 so that helped too.
Running kalk 24/7 now at 3mlm.
Ato pics up the rest and keeps things stable.
I have been able to reduce my carx by 50%.
For someone who never really monitored ph and did well I can see the difference in my system as it's quite noticeable.
Not chasing ph but by bringing the low numbers up my system is responding well.

I was surprised at the bump I got just adding a skimmer. I also understand now why SPS folks like to run pH higher. My AFR amount has doubled from 30ml to 60ml since adding the skimmer 8/12 and I swear I see daily growth on many coral.

 

[Dogeatbird]

I don’t know what you are trying to say, but anything related to concerns about hydroxide dosing not being detectable or not being immediately nearly all bicarbonate and carbonate are not issues reefers need ever consider. There has long been misinformation in the hobby about hydroxide dosing.

The point of information I am trying to convey is:

Titration is a means of measurement to establish a known pH, through the addition of an acid.

Carbonate Hardness is a prediction of the availability of a carbonic anion.(carbonate;CO3 2-:Bicarbonate;HCO3 -; or Carbonic Acid; H2CO3)

pH(potential of Hydrogen) rather is the logarithmic scale of ionic hydrogen and Hydroxide. It fluctuates in closed systems as a result of periodic changes of the availability of oxygen(due to photosynthesis) Decreases in nighttime hours are caused by the respiration of all flora and fauna.

In natural systems pH is stable due to volumetric conservation rather then local variation from diurnal/nocturnal consideration.

Although Kalkwasser has been used for decades to supply both Calcium and Carbonate demand in closed system. Regulation of pH, by means of Calcium Hydroxide is unreliable.

 

[jdpeters]

Also seeing better growth from bringing my night time ph from 7.5-7.6 to 7.9 with the addition of Kalk.
Corals that were just hanging out have shown new visible growth.
Nothing else changed in my system.
I did remove the sulfer reactor which had an effluent of 6.7 so that helped too.
Running kalk 24/7 now at 3mlm.
Ato pics up the rest and keeps things stable.
I have been able to reduce my carx by 50%.
For someone who never really monitored ph and did well I can see the difference in my system as it's quite noticeable.
Not chasing ph but by bringing the low numbers up my system is responding well.

I was surprised at the bump I got just adding a skimmer. I also understand now why SPS folks like to run pH higher. My AFR amount has doubled from 30ml to 60ml since adding the skimmer 8/12 and I swear I see daily growth on many coral.

Your PH jumped just from adding a skimmer? Did you run air from outside to accomplish that?

I’d consider just running mine at night, that might be a good compromise?

 

[jdpeters]

Concerning pH: whether to chase, or do not; a numerical value, ask yourself if you understand the physical chemistry behind the proposed addition of Kalkwasser(CaOh).

Kalk, as you know, has a saturation point in water, and as a replacement of top-off is limited to an evaporative by your setup. Additionally Kalk will add both Calcium and affect alkalinity. The Calcium is easy to see but alkalinity is a round about way.
Hydroxide ions bind dissolved CO2 to form Bicarbonate ion.

Addition of a Refugium, cycled photo-period opposite again may off set some pH swings. It will also compete for availability of NO3 - PO4

Nuisance dinoflagellate typically are more related to a microscopic biological diversity imbalance then to a specific husbandry issue. It(nuisance dinoflagellate) is a challenging subject,with a variety of responses. Based on your report parameters, IMO would not say you are nutrient deficient, nor would I say it is a mechanical defect in system design and operation. You can of course adjust your flow placement, aquascape, but try and only adjust one variable at a time. Any change can lead to a disruption which can trigger a change in bio-diversity.

In conclusion, follow that rabbit at your discretion. Studies, both scientific and anecdotal have seen an increase in calcification at pH or 8.3. Realism should be a consideration as the natural ocean mechanisms and hobbyists facsimile do differ.

Honestly I’m still working through nuisance algae’s and Dino’s, probably prioritizing fixing that is preferable. I added TBS sand 3.5 weeks ago, working on manual removal and managing nutrients.

 

[jdpeters]

Ph is a range in our Tanks and 8 is fine, +/- .3 or so in both directions through the day is also fine:

Ok thanks for that. I think I might want to prioritize other issues if some are suggesting it’s not a total limiting factor

 

[jdpeters]

Do you have ph readings of when the skimmer was on? Running a line to the outside will only be useful if the skimmer or another piece of equipment injecting that air into the water is on. If you do run the skimmer you could consider a reactor with co2 absorbing media as well. In an effort to complicate things as much as possible I have my skimmer air intake line running to the outside now and actually just added a reactor to that line as well. I personally think that a stable ph as close to 8.4 as possible is beneficial to the corals. In my opinion the juice is worth the squeeze. Good Luck with everything.

You think it’s possible to see any benefit just running the skimmer at night without any air exchange?

 

[fish_collector]

To the OP,

Raising your pH is absolutely beneficial. Is it completely necessary? Not really, 8 isn't bad at all, 8.3 would be better but not detrimental to your tank. There's nothing more to add to that really.

Adding a refugium with a reverse light cycle can help mitigate the pH drop at night but can also deplete your tank of nutrients if not managed. On a 40, it's my opinion that a refugium is a lot of work for minimal return but that is all opinion and some hobbyists like the time spent with their tanks so that's entirely up to you, there is a certain level of satisfaction knowing what you have done accomplished the goals you set out to achieve.

You can use kalk in your ato but even that has it's pros and cons. Personally I don't like the mess it leaves behind in the ato so I prefer to use 2 part on dosers but that's just me, you'll get more opinions depending on who you ask. I can say for sure that the addition of a small amount of saturated soda ash raises the pH by a large amount but shouldn't be used without the other half, calcium chloride. Using 2 part does also have some drawbacks, it will slowly raise your salinity but that's easily corrected, especially with a 40.

Generous surface agitation can help with gas exchange.

I think the benefits of running a skimmer 24/7 outweigh any notions of stripping nutrients from the water. Similar debate with a refugium I suppose. Nitrate and Phosphate are cheap and easy to add if necessary.