PLS HELP! Having a serious Dino issue

[Redlaxer2022]

EHi! I am a pretty new reefer and have within th last month, gotten into a serious battle with Dinos. As of right now, I have fixed my nitrate/phosphates (accidentally let them bottom out), and have ID’d them to be Amphidinium Dinos. I put my lights to white to show the extent of the problem but they are normally set to almost zero. I have tried what feels like everything under the sun. From manual removal, copepods/phytoplankton, Silica dosing and much more with little to no improvement whatsoever. If anyone can recommend or provide some kind of insight that would be greatly appreciated!

 

[mcarroll]

If you haven't already, read at least the first post (and all links) of this thread:

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info: some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak...

www.reef2reef.com

Do you have a microscope – even a toy one will do? Otherwise, do the shake test that's mentioned on that link and tell us what you get.

Also, can you post all your water test results, especially NO3 and PO4? In addition, can you tell us how old the tank is, how it was started, and how it's being cleaned and filtered?

 

[Furyshock]

If you add copepods to your tank they’ll start eating the dinos it takes time though

 

[jonelder68]

I would get a Uv sterilizer and add it directly to the DT. See how it goes if no change than either a blackout for 3 days to encourage the Dino’s to leave the sand bed looking for light. Or buy @Moe K UV sand sweeper to try out. It works but you have to make sure to do it daily.

Sand Bed UV Sweeper

Introducing the UV Sweeper – the ultimate tool for maintaining a pristine sand bed. This innovative device will effectively help control dinoflagellates and diatoms while preserving the delicate organisms beneath the surface. The UV Sweeper is at the core of a process to help shift the...

3dreefing.com

Out of curiosity what sand do you have installed? Caribsea special grade?

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

What are you nutrient levels? NO3/PO4? Also provide testing results of Salinity/Alk/Cal/Mag.

If your nutrients are stuck at zero, getting them elevated will also go a long way to helping.

 

[TheDuude]

As big of a UV you can find plumbed into display and 48 black out. Cover the tank with a dark sheet and eliminate all light in tank and sump.

 

[Redlaxer2022]

If you haven't already, read at least the first post (and all links) of this thread:

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info: some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak...

www.reef2reef.com

Do you have a microscope – even a toy one will do? Otherwise, do the shake test that's mentioned on that link and tell us what you get.

Also, can you post all your water test results, especially NO3 and PO4? In addition, can you tell us how old the tank is, how it was started, and how it's being cleaned and filtering

What are you nutrient levels? NO3/PO4? Also provide testing results of Salinity/Alk/Cal/Mag.

If your nutrients are stuck at zero, getting them elevated will also go a long way to helping.

So after testing for a few day and a test from my LFS my current levels have stayed at:
1.025 salinity
8.3 Alk
400 cal
1500 mag
12 NO3
0.15 PO4

 

[Redlaxer2022]

If you haven't already, read at least the first post (and all links) of this thread:

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

I don't know what percentage of folks had luck battling dinos with any of the methods in the old Dino thread but it's obviously a very low percentage, so I'd like refresh folks on the natural alternatives and lay out three areas of info: some of the factors that contribute to a dino outbreak...

www.reef2reef.com

Do you have a microscope – even a toy one will do? Otherwise, do the shake test that's mentioned on that link and tell us what you get.

Also, can you post all your water test results, especially NO3 and PO4? In addition, can you tell us how old the tank is, how it was started, and how it's being cleaned and filtered?

The tank is an Ice cap 38 gal that’s been running for about 4 months, I have no clue how it started other than seeing a lot of red patches but when I configured my guy said it was cyano and it should just go away so I waited longer and did my regular testing until it exploded and is in its current state

I confirmed on a microscope that it is in fact Amphidinium Dino’s after doing some research with some papers on scholar

 

[CHSUB]

Tank is filthy, overstocked, and likely overfed…no need for rocket science just better maintenance.

 

[jonelder68]

Tank is filthy, overstocked, and likely overfed…no need for rock science just better maintenance.

that’s what Dino’s do. We disagree on many Dino’s post but let’s keep positive encouragement here! Amphidinium Dino’s are an absolute brutal task to get past!

 

[CHSUB]

that’s what Dino’s do. We disagree on many Dino’s post but let’s keep positive encouragement here! Amphidinium Dino’s are an absolute brutal task to get

If this is not a troll post than maybe, however a large purple tang in a 38 gallon is going to produce all the food algae needs. No nutrient deficiency possible here…

 

[jonelder68]

If this is not a troll post than maybe, however a large purple tang in a 38 gallon is going to produce all the food algae needs. No nutrient deficiency possible here…

Agree the tang is in a tank way undersized for its size.

 

[Redlaxer2022]

Agree the tang is in a tank way undersized for

Tank is filthy, overstocked, and likely overfed…no need for rocket science just better

Tank is filthy, overstocked, and likely overfed…no need for rocket science just better maintenance.

good thing I’m just holding it for my dad:) seeing how I’ve had the Dino’s longer than I’ve been hoteling the tang, I didn’t realize that was such a contributing factor. Thank you for the great input tho:)

 

[vetteguy53081]

EHi! I am a pretty new reefer and have within th last month, gotten into a serious battle with Dinos. As of right now, I have fixed my nitrate/phosphates (accidentally let them bottom out), and have ID’d them to be Amphidinium Dinos. I put my lights to white to show the extent of the problem but they are normally set to almost zero. I have tried what feels like everything under the sun. From manual removal, copepods/phytoplankton, Silica dosing and much more with little to no improvement whatsoever. If anyone can recommend or provide some kind of insight that would be greatly appreciated!

When we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and Its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

 

[jonelder68]

Me and many have different opinions on Dino’s than CHSUB. I would do manual cleanings followed with collecting it all either filter socks or internal canister filter like a marineland magnum filter. UV added direct to display. If your Dino’s doesn’t go away at night might require blackout period to convince the Dino’s to leave the sand and look for light elsewhere.

Keep nutrient levels detectable at all times and hope for the best!

 

[jonelder68]

As @vetteguy53081 stated dosing peroxide is highly effective as well! Just be careful if you have shrimp or urchins. They don’t seem to like it much. Otherwise it’s harmless and highly effective at algae’s, Dino’s, cyano, you name it pairs nicely with daily manual cleanings. Time to put them hands to work

 

[Redlaxer2022]

When we see zero readings, automatically we assume this is the cause but by the time you see zero numbers, its because the dino has consumed the po4 and no3 and are multiplying and in turn many dose no3 and po4 to bring numbers up not realizing they are feeding these flagellates even more.
Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and Its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

Thank you so much for all the info I will definitely be following this

 

[slingfox]

(1) Rehome the Purple Tang—it will not work in a tank that size

(2) Need to do manual removal of as much Dino’s as possible. Spray the rocks to get as much Dino’s into the water column as possible and either do a large water change or siphon the water back into the tank but through a 5 micron sock. Remove the top layer of sand and rinse out the Dino’s.

(3) Plumb in a UV sterilizer—preferably in the display tank but in the sump also works.

(4) Figure out what to dose. I have dealt with Dino’s successfully with dosing silicates and bottled bacteria (specifically MicrobeLife Special Blend). Others also have success with hydrogen peroxide.

You likely need to do manual removal every few days as the Dino’s gradually subside.

I don’t believe you will ever be able to keep nutrients in check and / or have a happy fish population with that Purple Tang.

 

[mcarroll]

So after testing for a few day and a test from my LFS my current levels have stayed at:
1.025 salinity
8.3 Alk
400 cal
1500 mag
12 NO3
0.15 PO4

Seems like an improvement from "almost zero" ....is this improvement from dosing NO3 and PO4, or...?

How is it stable now where it wasn't before?

The tank is an Ice cap 38 gal that’s been running for about 4 months, I have no clue how it started other than seeing a lot of red patches but when I configured my guy said it was cyano and it should just go away so I waited longer and did my regular testing until it exploded and is in its current state

I confirmed on a microscope that it is in fact Amphidinium Dino’s after doing some research with some papers on scholar

You're basically still in the uglies phase....only they got uglier.

Sounds like it started as cyano with the red description you give....dino's are pretty distinctly orange-ish due to their main pigment (peridinan).

If conditions were still deteriorating when you reported the cyano, then it was just an eventuality that any resident dino's would be triggered to switch to "bacterivory"....eating bacteria rather than using dissolved nutrients and photsynthesizing.

Weird, right?

Once dino's make that switch they find a more than ample food supply in our tanks (any bio-filters must look like a buffet!) and they bloom like crazy – this is when they become large enough in numbers to be visible....and outnumbering your dino's Many side effects ensue from here due to toxins, smothering effects, etc...

Dinos may outnumber the cyano now but I wouldn't be surprised if you still saw cyano on your microscope slides. They seem to be able to cohabitate with dino's even when nothing else will live.

Have you been able to get through the main post of the thread I linked earlier?