Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[skey44]

I think my dosing of coral snow in the early days of my tank was a big factor in controlling any potential ugly stage. I saw very little in the way of any nuisance algaes. I mixed up a mason jar of coral snow and would give it a good shake and pour it into a graduated cylinder with a couple other things along the lines of what @SunnyX does, I would dose this every 5 days. Before dosing while letting the concoction sit with occasional agitation I would blow off the rocks with a turkey baster, shut off the skimmer and return pump and dose it to the tank. I would let that work for about 30 min and turn return pump back on. After about an hour I would turn the skimmer back on. By morning the water was crystal clear.

Basting rocks and sand is great idea! I usually just do it after a wc. IME adding bacteria cocktail with this adds to the potency. Mine is now in a 1 L bettix bottle. I can make a liter at a time and dosing is built in.

 

[Dan_P]

I may go this route if the Oceamo tests turn up no potential culprits.

Before you do, check with me to hear about Aquabiomics testing capability/reliability. I seem to be having difficulty getting tests run. Might be temporary issue or a problem with the business.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Before you do, check with me to hear about Aquabiomics testing capability/reliability. I seem to be having difficulty getting tests run. Might be temporary issue or a problem with the business.

Ok, thanks!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Basting rocks and sand is great idea! I usually just do it after a wc. IME adding bacteria cocktail with this adds to the potency. Mine is now in a 1 L bettix bottle. I can make a liter at a time and dosing is built in.

Lasse has begun doing it with his own skimmate bacteria. I might be more inclined to try something like that than MB7, which seems unnatural to me.

In a tank with live ocean rock and sand, there’s plenty of natural bacteria. I’m not sure bacteria is going to help, but obviously I cannot say it won’t.

@Lasse

 

[skey44]

Lasse has begun doing it with his own skimmate bacteria. I might be more inclined to try something like that than MB7, which seems unnatural to me.

In a tank with live ocean rock and sand, there’s plenty of natural bacteria. I’m not sure bacteria is going to help, but obviously I cannot say it won’t.

@Lasse

I wonder if the bacteria just helps as a binder of some type. The coral snow seems to attach to the surfaces better when you add bacteria products. That’s the difference I’ve noticed. Interesting idea to combine with skimmer bacteria!

 

[twentyleagues]

Lasse has begun doing it with his own skimmate bacteria. I might be more inclined to try something like that than MB7, which seems unnatural to me.

In a tank with live ocean rock and sand, there’s plenty of natural bacteria. I’m not sure bacteria is going to help, but obviously I cannot say it won’t.

@Lasse

I wonder if the bacteria just helps as a binder of some type. The coral snow seems to attach to the surfaces better when you add bacteria products. That’s the difference I’ve noticed. Interesting idea to combine with skimmer bacteria!

I have no idea if adding bacteria is helpful or not or if it helps attach the coral snow to rocks. I started dry rock and bottled bacteria so I figured it would not hurt anything. I basically followed Sunnys cyano treatment because I had a couple very small patches of a green/yellow cyano type of goo in a few places sand bed and some crevices in the rocks. When I say small I mean like the size of a dime at most. After 2 treatments described before it was gone. I continued this treatment for months using mb7 or Prodibio Biogest. Did it help? IDK, or was it my attention to it and blowing it off the rocks and there for blowing out the detritus it was thriving off of that did it? again IDK. Maybe both.

 

[skey44]

I have no idea if adding bacteria is helpful or not or if it helps attach the coral snow to rocks. I started dry rock and bottled bacteria so I figured it would not hurt anything. I basically followed Sunnys cyano treatment because I had a couple very small patches of a green/yellow cyano type of goo in a few places sand bed and some crevices in the rocks. When I say small I mean like the size of a dime at most. After 2 treatments described before it was gone. I continued this treatment for months using mb7 or Prodibio Biogest. Did it help? IDK, or was it my attention to it and blowing it off the rocks and there for blowing out the detritus it was thriving off of that did it? again IDK. Maybe both.

Thanks for sharing your similar experience as mine to add to the information hive mind lol

 

[Lasse]

Lasse has begun doing it with his own skimmate bacteria. I might be more inclined to try something like that than MB7, which seems unnatural to me.

In a tank with live ocean rock and sand, there’s plenty of natural bacteria. I’m not sure bacteria is going to help, but obviously I cannot say it won’t.

@Lasse

I do not use my skimmate bacteria for the time being (as a bacteria input in the water column) - I injected skimmate below my reversed sandbed during the first years in order to start it up and as I understand - it works well. However - the skim cup is an excellent breeding chamber for bacteria and I have soak my calcium powder in skimmate when I tested that method for a while. At least i did not give any negative effect to the aquarium but I did not use the method with coral snow in an aggressive way - only now and then.

I may start an experiment with "coral snow" again and now in a more consistent way. If so - yes then I will use my skimmate as a bacteria product

However - I have never believed in the methods of using bacteria as pribio treatment in a established aquarium. As I see it - all possible niches for different bacteria is already occupied and if you should try to compete some out in favour for "better" bacteria - you need a huge and continuous input of "better" bacteria.

However - in a new aquaria - after the start of the nitrifying bacteria cycle - could it possibly be a method for controlling which types of bacteria will dominate in the future – this assumes that the products you use actually contain the type of marine bacteria they are said to contain.

FWW - A possible way to get enough of "good" bacteria could be to use the skimmer cup as propagation chamber for "good" bacteria. After cleaning of the cup - seed the cup with the product you believe in and let the nature do its job. Use the skimmate as a cheap bacteria product. If you test this - you need to follow up PO4 concentrations. I have never use this method - its just an idea outside of the normal "saltwater aquarist" box. I do not know if it will work - there will still be a competition but - as I see it - its a better chance for the "new" bacteria to establish themself - first in the skimmer cup and after that in the tank because there are more of them compared with a couple of drops from a bacteria bottle

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sam7]

Yes, definitely sheared off some tentacles, but it seems to have not had worse damage. It is back in place, and is gripping on as usual. Very frustrating.

I also managed to have the powerhead cord knock the nearby auto feeder into the water. Got it out fast, but don’t know what the salt water exposure will do to its functioning. It went crazy at first, turning and turning until I removed the batteries. Washed it and it’s drying now, but I’m expecting it’s a loss.

Yesterday I finally got some food grade calcium carbonate powder. I dosed it four times, using 1g, 2.5 g, 2.5 g, and finally 5 g after lights off last night. Each time I suspended it in some ro/di and added it to my first sump. Cloudiness did not last too long ,certainly looks normal this AM). The hope is that any organics driving the cyano may bind and maybe even bind a toxin if that’s an issue. Don’t know if the powder played any role in the anemone release, since it seems to happens once a week or two.

I have dosed calcium carbonate to my tank where the whole tank looks like milk with no harm. I just wanted to see how far could go. It is always clear by morning. Done it several times. At first i was carefully measuring now i just dump some in with no worries. So far it hasnt changed anything but what was on my sand seemed to have cleared up. Might been luck lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not use my skimmate bacteria for the time being (as a bacteria input in the water column) - I injected skimmate below my reversed sandbed during the first years in order to start it up and as I understand - it works well. However - the skim cup is an excellent breeding chamber for bacteria and I have soak my calcium powder in skimmate when I tested that method for a while. At least i did not give any negative effect to the aquarium but I did not use the method with coral snow in an aggressive way - only now and then.

I may start an experiment with "coral snow" again and now in a more consistent way. If so - yes then I will use my skimmate as a bacteria product

However - I have never believed in the methods of using bacteria as pribio treatment in a established aquarium. As I see it - all possible niches for different bacteria is already occupied and if you should try to compete some out in favour for "better" bacteria - you need a huge and continuous input of "better" bacteria.

However - in a new aquaria - after the start of the nitrifying bacteria cycle - could it possibly be a method for controlling which types of bacteria will dominate in the future – this assumes that the products you use actually contain the type of marine bacteria they are said to contain.

FWW - A possible way to get enough of "good" bacteria could be to use the skimmer cup as propagation chamber for "good" bacteria. After cleaning of the cup - seed the cup with the product you believe in and let the nature do its job. Use the skimmate as a cheap bacteria product. If you test this - you need to follow up PO4 concentrations. I have never use this method - its just an idea outside of the normal "saltwater aquarist" box. I do not know if it will work - there will still be a competition but - as I see it - its a better chance for the "new" bacteria to establish themself - first in the skimmer cup and after that in the tank because there are more of them compared with a couple of drops from a bacteria bottle

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks, Lasse.

If I were to use bacteria with (or without) calcium carbonate in a system like mine, I'd dose them separately and would probably use something like PNS Probio, not MB7. I may get some of that soon.

In my system, the cyano is growing on things that I do not want to paste over with a layer of bacteria coated particles. For example, on my rocks that are covered with coralline algae. Very different scenario than a new tank with bare rocks.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have dosed calcium carbonate to my tank where the whole tank looks like milk with no harm. I just wanted to see how far could go. It is always clear by morning. Done it several times. At first i was carefully measuring now i just dump some in with no worries. So far it hasnt changed anything but what was on my sand seemed to have cleared up. Might been luck lol

I did some doses the last few days.

First 1 g, then 2.5 grams a few hours later, repeat that, then 5 g at the start of the night cycle. 5 g again the next day.

I too find the water does not stay cloudy, but I also do not see any apparent changes in the cyano levels or water clarity (except for suspended particles that I do not filter out, the water is pretty clear, and may be less yellow after I added the UV bulbs a few days ago. ).

 

[rishma]

Thanks, Lasse.

If I were to use bacteria with (or without) calcium carbonate in a system like mine, I'd dose them separately and would probably use something like PNS Probio, not MB7. I may get some of that soon.

In my system, the cyano is growing on things that I do not want to paste over with a layer of bacteria coated particles. For example, on my rocks that are covered with coralline algae. Very different scenario than a new tank with bare rocks.

I don’t understand the downside of covering coraline with bacteria and calcium carbonate power. In my experience the snow covers things and then seems to go away in a day or so. I cannot see what harm it would do to coraline algae.

I have not had cyano in many many years and several tanks. Not sure why.

 

[skey44]

Thanks, Lasse.

If I were to use bacteria with (or without) calcium carbonate in a system like mine, I'd dose them separately and would probably use something like PNS Probio, not MB7. I may get some of that soon.

In my system, the cyano is growing on things that I do not want to paste over with a layer of bacteria coated particles. For example, on my rocks that are covered with coralline algae. Very different scenario than a new tank with bare rocks.

I’m currently using PNS Probio with my coral snow! Love the combo. Just have used MB7 in past and it’s more available locally to me so I mentioned it here by name.

Turkey basted rocks and sand yesterday on week between water changes after the discussion here and dosed PNS probio and coral snow as a mix together. Honestly my tank doesn’t collect a ton of detritus so there wasn’t a ton to Turkey baste. I do have high flow, a heavy cleanup crew, and high fish load always eating everything. The fish pretty much consume all the visible waste, and sand stirring wrasses hunting for pods in every crevice leaving pretty much no detritus in the tank.
Coral feeding response was nuts, not sure if a result of the turkey basting or some combo with the bac/snow dose. Tank was so clear after a few hours.
I find the snow doesn’t stick as well to previously coated (coralline) surfaces if you’re concerned for this. I see no change to coralline coverage based on this.
I only do this once a week max and often times go a month without dosing coralline snow.
I’ve just added it back to my regimen as a way to keep tank cleaner between WC and clarify water after a WC.
Hope you get your cyano knocked out!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t understand the downside of covering coraline with bacteria and calcium carbonate power. In my experience the snow covers things and then seems to go away in a day or so. I cannot see what harm it would do to coraline algae.

I have not had cyano in many many years and several tanks. Not sure why.

I assume the condition lasts or it would not "replace" the spot where the cyano is growing with something that did not grow cyano for more than the time it was there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Coral Growth Update

It was about 6 months ago that I got this bubblegum montipora digitata from a local reefer as a freebie with the stylophora I bought from him. Both are doing well. The stylo is encrusting onto nearby rocks, and here's the 6 month growth on the digitata.

today:

As arrived:

 

[burnsq]

concerning the anemone. Have you thought about adding more light / wattage? :)

 

[Lasse]

Thanks, Lasse.

If I were to use bacteria with (or without) calcium carbonate in a system like mine, I'd dose them separately and would probably use something like PNS Probio, not MB7. I may get some of that soon.

In my system, the cyano is growing on things that I do not want to paste over with a layer of bacteria coated particles. For example, on my rocks that are covered with coralline algae. Very different scenario than a new tank with bare rocks.

FYI

I have started an aggressive use of CaCO3 powder soaked in skimmate for an hour. 4 table spoons of CaCO3 powder and 30 ml skimmate - once a day around 20:00 (8 pm)

I will follow up with results in my own thread in order to not derail this thread

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FYI

I have started an aggressive use of CaCO3 powder soaked in skimmate for an hour. 4 table spoons of CaCO3 powder and 30 ml skimmate - once a day around 20:00 (8 pm)

I will follow up with results in my own thread in order to not derail this thread

Sincerely Lasse

I'm certainly curious to see what happens! :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

ICP-MS Results

I posted a separate thread to allow more folks to see the discussion than may read through this thread, but my ICP-MS from OCeamo is back.

Randy's Aquarium Water Test Results

There are three primary reasons that I opted to get my water tested for both inorganic elements, and organic compounds (by Oceamo). 1. I have a magnifica anemone that just won't stay put, and despite apparently doing fine, it releases from the rock entirely about once every 10 days. While it...

www.reef2reef.com

from it:

There are three primary reasons that I opted to get my water tested for both inorganic elements, and organic compounds (by Oceamo).

1. I have a magnifica anemone that just won't stay put, and despite apparently doing fine, it releases from the rock entirely about once every 10 days. While it might be many things (light, flow, foot injury (none visible), irritant by an organism, etc.), I wanted to try to rule out chemistry issues in the water.

2. I seem unable to get soft corals to thrive (koji wada, yellow leather, weeping willow, green toadstool) despite hard corals (e.g., montipora digitata and stylophora) growing.

3. I want to see if the supplementing I am doing (AFR, foods, water changes, and additional iodine, iron, and manganese) are seemingly suitable.

The organics test will be done shortly, but the ICP-MS from Oceamo is complete.

Short answer is that nothing jumps out to explain #1 or #2 above. Tin from plastics was one of my concerns, but its not apparently any issue. I might add some element dosing to the mix (maybe molybdenum and nickel), but that's not urgent, IMO.

Also, my RO Buddie seems to work perfectly well for my needs. :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Some other take aways from the ICP are:

1. I likely can reduce my iodide dosing (the ulva may not be taking in as much as I was dosing). This assumes the iodine is iodide or iodate and not some organic form, but figuring that out would be too much effort.

2. The additional iron and manganese dosing I am doing are not excessive.

3. I did not try to take any tests right before the ICP to match up, but my salinity, alk, phosphate, and nitrate levels are all reasonably close to the Oceamo levels.

4. So far, my not measuring calcium or magnesium seems to be working fine.

5. The silicate I sometimes dose to potentially help deter dinos/cyano seems to not be excessive.