rtparty
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Because it’s not just the cost of silicone. It’s the fact that one takes 7 days and one takes 30 days to cure. They have to sit on tanks for a much longer time before moving them
Red Sea Risk?
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Because it’s not just the cost of silicone. It’s the fact that one takes 7 days and one takes 30 days to cure. They have to sit on tanks for a much longer time before moving them
If your new tank was a Nano sure, but one reason I’ll never own RS large tank is simply I don’t want one more potential problem to think about. If I ever go bigger again I’d most likely see about an IM Ext or Int model.
NanoSteam
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Still not worth it IMO... If you want something AIO in a similar size check out Innovative Marines offerings like the SR60. A much nicer package IMO with quiet DC pumps and aluminum stand vs Ikea grade that comes with the RS.
edsbeaker
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I can’t understand the hold that RS tanks still have on people, especially those buying them fully aware of the risk. They are knowingly cutting corners to save money and I feel that this is nothing but negligence on their part. Why support a company that refuses to take steps to make their tanks more reliable? There are so many other options. I just don’t get it.
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ncsuben
Community Member
From my perspective as someone looking to get into the hobby I think a lot of it is marketing. They’re the easiest to find, they highlight “COMES WITH ATO…”, they’re often first in the general list of available options on the majority of websites, etc.
Couple that with the fact that they have some desirable dimensions. Looking through sooooo may tank dimensions its still so surprising to me the variance between companies.
That being said, this thread is enough for me to bail on the idea of an RS. Honestly, I’m leaning toward a lesser known value for money option in the Pro Clear ProStar 150 or 200 at this point. Sumps are iffy but I’ve read nothing but good things regarding build and finish of tank and stand. And the extra savings can go into other components for me.
I love my RSR170. It's over 7 years old and no signs of any structural silicone problems at all. Just some very light wear and tear on the edges from cleaning.
It's impossible to know exact failure rate for a number of reasons. Not all failures are reported, not all failures are due to build issues, everyone does not treat their tank the same, shipping/storage issues, etc. I'm sure there's a failure for every brand of tank out there. Is Red Sea the worst? Possibly, but even if they are how much worse are they?
I suspect the numbers aren't nearly as bad when you look at annual production vs annual failure rate. I believe they are the leading seller of top end aquarium systems and they sell tanks globally so let's guess at a 100,000 units per year sold.
If failure rate is 10 in 100,000 (seems reasonable guess as there are somewhere in the vicinity of 100 reported failures on the forums over several years). Of course that's just guessing with a limited sample but it does illustrate how large numbers sold can increase small amount of failures that get amplified on forums.
For comparison, car fatalities the US are now about 12 in 100,000 annually. Back when I learned to drive in the late 70's it was over 22 per 100,000. And no, I'm not comparing the tragedy of car fatality with a tank failure. Just illustrating perception of risk. No one is not driving due to those numbers. Well, at my age driving at night isn't something I like doing but I'm also not buying a large rimless tank either.
I do have an issue with rimless concept in general, though. It's asking a lot for silicone to support glass and water with no other support for years. People didn't want framing or euro bracing and wanted minimal silicone. That means very little extra silicone protecting the seal to keep that clean appearance. Put that against manufacturers rightfully wanted to produce products for least cost (thinnest glass) and consumers wanting larger and larger tanks and there's going to be issues.
So back to the OP's original question. I think it's probably fine to purchase but there are no guarantees. And in my personal opinion, if I wanted a tank to last 20 years and it was over 100 gallons, I'm getting a tank that's likely framed. Specific brand would be something like Custom Aquariums or perhaps Glass Cages. Someplace I can order the glass thickness/clarity I want. I like the idea of aluminum framing though and price is very comparable to premium OTS brands.
It's impossible to know exact failure rate for a number of reasons. Not all failures are reported, not all failures are due to build issues, everyone does not treat their tank the same, shipping/storage issues, etc. I'm sure there's a failure for every brand of tank out there. Is Red Sea the worst? Possibly, but even if they are how much worse are they?
I suspect the numbers aren't nearly as bad when you look at annual production vs annual failure rate. I believe they are the leading seller of top end aquarium systems and they sell tanks globally so let's guess at a 100,000 units per year sold.
If failure rate is 10 in 100,000 (seems reasonable guess as there are somewhere in the vicinity of 100 reported failures on the forums over several years). Of course that's just guessing with a limited sample but it does illustrate how large numbers sold can increase small amount of failures that get amplified on forums.
For comparison, car fatalities the US are now about 12 in 100,000 annually. Back when I learned to drive in the late 70's it was over 22 per 100,000. And no, I'm not comparing the tragedy of car fatality with a tank failure. Just illustrating perception of risk. No one is not driving due to those numbers. Well, at my age driving at night isn't something I like doing but I'm also not buying a large rimless tank either.
I do have an issue with rimless concept in general, though. It's asking a lot for silicone to support glass and water with no other support for years. People didn't want framing or euro bracing and wanted minimal silicone. That means very little extra silicone protecting the seal to keep that clean appearance. Put that against manufacturers rightfully wanted to produce products for least cost (thinnest glass) and consumers wanting larger and larger tanks and there's going to be issues.
So back to the OP's original question. I think it's probably fine to purchase but there are no guarantees. And in my personal opinion, if I wanted a tank to last 20 years and it was over 100 gallons, I'm getting a tank that's likely framed. Specific brand would be something like Custom Aquariums or perhaps Glass Cages. Someplace I can order the glass thickness/clarity I want. I like the idea of aluminum framing though and price is very comparable to premium OTS brands.
Sm1nts2escape
Community Member
I've taken apart two red seas a g1 200xl and a g2 425xl. Both of them the front glass came off so easily and the 200xl had zero visual seam degradation. You would be amazed how easily they came apart. The only part that stuck and didn't peal off is on the mitered angle. I have heard they use a 2 part silicone that needs to be perfectly mixed and that is why they fail but I am not sure. They said the g2s dont fail but there are g3s failing already lol. They said it was the stand but after building two tanks I can tell you it is not that. All I do know is I would never buy one new if I was buying a new tank. When I move I am upgrading to a waterbox or glass cages built tank. See video below of a 200xl where I am showing the silicone issue...
Take the two spaces out below for the link
https://www. facebook. com/100000798930621/videos/pcb.1795735740992647/1007197211469306
Take the two spaces out below for the link
https://www. facebook. com/100000798930621/videos/pcb.1795735740992647/1007197211469306
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ncsuben
Community Member
@Quietman , these were also my original thoughts. For example, as a previous veterinarian, I look at laborador retrievers and wonder when their cruciate ligaments will rupture...and while that breed is more prone than the majority, it doesn't mean yours will (or my current in this case :).
In terms of framing, I absolutely don't mind the black framing of standard tanks. It just seems so hard to find given everyone's obsession with appearance (in all aspects of life these days...but I digress). And yes Glass Cages is a great option, they're just quite a bit more $...understandable, I get it, but also trying to save money to invest it in other components. I'm a "value for money" person, if the rate of return starts diminishing at a specific price point, then that's where I try to be.
Sorry for the long response. I just really appreciate that perspective and all your points are well taken and a consideration I've taken.
I get it that not all red sea's leak. And I'm not a hater.
I've used red sea products for decades and they have a lot of good stuff.
But I've joined the list of people that have been burned. And once you are in.... it's hard to get out. You just get a new red sea tank..... and then are wondering if you are in for a repeat.
Anybody getting a red sea just needs to do it with their eyes wide open. I don't think it's possible that all these leaks are just because they sell more tanks... obviously there is a problem - though impossible to prove.
But hey.... maybe the G3's did fix it. We don't really know what silicone they use and maybe they changed it and didn't say.
We just won't know for sure for a few years.
I'm in the Red Sea ecosystem now and prob will stay. But if I was getting a new tank..... nada. Personally, I'd do one of the others.
I wish Oceanic and DAS were still around........
I've used red sea products for decades and they have a lot of good stuff.
But I've joined the list of people that have been burned. And once you are in.... it's hard to get out. You just get a new red sea tank..... and then are wondering if you are in for a repeat.
Anybody getting a red sea just needs to do it with their eyes wide open. I don't think it's possible that all these leaks are just because they sell more tanks... obviously there is a problem - though impossible to prove.
But hey.... maybe the G3's did fix it. We don't really know what silicone they use and maybe they changed it and didn't say.
We just won't know for sure for a few years.
I'm in the Red Sea ecosystem now and prob will stay. But if I was getting a new tank..... nada. Personally, I'd do one of the others.
I wish Oceanic and DAS were still around........
Take a look at customaquariums.com. Honestly, this will probably be where my next tank comes from whenever I get that upgrade to a 90-100 gallon. Also in my experience, rimless tanks are very attractive but every time you touch anything on rimless there's going to be a water streak down one of the panes. I move the lid to feed...water streak, get too close to top with scraper...water streak, return pump comes on after feed mode...water streak. Things I never have happen on my freshwater and I'm far, far less careful with them.
exnisstech
Grumpy old man
Depends. My WB has a larger single piece euro brace so it prevents splashing and helps keep fish from jumping out. Also makes a nice shelf.
I get what your saying tho because I have rimless with no Euro brace and I usually shut the return off when I scrape the glass to lower the level a bit.
Agree...euro brace is good solution but I know I'd be less than diligent about cleaning that and when I see them I always notice the salt spray/creep. That's really the only reason I never looked into them. Maybe if I had hood but then why not just go framed.
exnisstech
Grumpy old man
I am so glad my tank is tall and I'm not. I have to stand on my toes or a stool to see the top so I just don't lol. I used some black vinyl to hide the water line so that help also.
NanoSteam
ANTI 100% Blues Only Club
The problem is, it's now a fact their choice of silicone is bad... so it's up to the consumer to decide how risk-averse they are.
When there's so many better options out there I just don't see the reason to take on that risk especially when that risk entails potential property damage.
When there's so many better options out there I just don't see the reason to take on that risk especially when that risk entails potential property damage.
Maybe that's it. I'm 6'3". At least I was last physical and I see everything from the back of the overflow (don't ever look in there, trust me) to the top of the light (unsurprisingly dusty, but if I clean it I'm sure I'll change some temperature coefficient and mess up the spectrum). Now the sump is totally different story, it's really too far down for me to fool with often. Ok, same story - I'm just a lazy old reefer.
You really think one or more in ten are failing? I've seen nothing along those lines. What's your data coming from?
Üter
10K Club member
The original person who ordered the tank in the first place probably came to their senses. Warranty covers tank only. Loss of livestock and home damage is not covered. Check with your insurance to see if water damage from a leaking aquarium is covered. My policy does not have coverage unless the tank is broken by accident like a kid throwing a rock through it or similar accident.
My first redsea tank reefer 170
RIP
My second purchased before the 170 failed. I'm currently making arrangements to replace this reefer 300 g2. I'll never buy another RS tank and IMO until they admit the silicone they use is the cause of the failure and have a correction I recommend no one add one. All the BS they spouted about it being only larger tanks and lack of a center support causing the failure is just that, BS. Euro bracing is not going to correct silicone failure and is just more BS . What next Gen 4, Gen 5 with no correction or admission of the real problem?
My current G2 300 vertical and horizontal end seams.
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