Reef moonshiners program

[rtparty]

I love the RM method but the users can be tough to follow. I unfollowed the RM group on Facebook because it is usually a bash "insert group/person/method name here" and that provides me nothing. Either help those asking questions or move on. It is simple. If you have to bash Chevy to prove your Ford is better, I know your Ford isn't better. Ya?

Colors can be amazing with so many methods it is ridiculous to say one is better than the other. Especially when a lot of RM colors are very fake and "LED looking" to me. I use RM for healthy corals (and I have seen this personally with my own corals.) Rainbow colors do not equal health. Possibly, the exact opposite. Corals in the wild are most colorful when they are ready to die. Something to think about...

I use halides and will likely never see the LED colors we see many RM users achieve. I am 100% okay with that because I don't care for LEDs.

I would argue some of the best colors on any corals are Abe at Coral Euphoria. Does he employ RM? Nope, not even close from what I can tell. So to argue that one must use RM to get the BEST colors ever is a slap in the face and hurts the RM method more than anything.

 

[X-37B]

I doubt barium is high enough to notice the effect that way. Even when very high (say, 1 ppm), it would be a thousand times lower in concentration that the calcium.

I did my first ICP test at 2.5 years and barium was 25- range was 0-10.
All other elements were inline.
Interesting thing is I have never dosed it. I do 12g's a month WC in my 120 with IO purple.
Just thought I would throw that out their.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I did my first ICP test at 2.5 years and barium was 25- range was 0-10.
All other elements were inline.
Interesting thing is I have never dosed it. I do 12g's a month WC in my 120 with IO purple.
Just thought I would throw that out their.

All of the samples of calcium chloride that I tested years ago had about the same level of barium in them, probably from incorporation into the source calcium carbonate it was made from. Thus, you may be adding it and do not realize it.

Aquarium Chemistry: Purity Of Calcium Chloride

Randy takes a look at a number of sources of calcium chloride and reports on them.

reefs.com

Element	Dow Solid	Kent Liquid	Kent Solid	ESV Solid	Warner Liquid
Aluminum	0.18	0.15	0.11	0.19	0.16
Arsenic	< 0.5	< 0.5	< 0.5	< 0.5	< 0.5
Barium	0.42	0.57	0.48	0.39	0.52

 

[minus9]

I love the RM method but the users can be tough to follow. I unfollowed the RM group on Facebook because it is usually a bash "insert group/person/method name here" and that provides me nothing. Either help those asking questions or move on. It is simple. If you have to bash Chevy to prove your Ford is better, I know your Ford isn't better. Ya?

Colors can be amazing with so many methods it is ridiculous to say one is better than the other. Especially when a lot of RM colors are very fake and "LED looking" to me. I use RM for healthy corals (and I have seen this personally with my own corals.) Rainbow colors do not equal health. Possibly, the exact opposite. Corals in the wild are most colorful when they are ready to die. Something to think about...

I use halides and will likely never see the LED colors we see many RM users achieve. I am 100% okay with that because I don't care for LEDs.

I would argue some of the best colors on any corals are Abe at Coral Euphoria. Does he employ RM? Nope, not even close from what I can tell. So to argue that one must use RM to get the BEST colors ever is a slap in the face and hurts the RM method more than anything.

Agree, it’s just one of many ways of maintaining chemistry. I think certain people get lost or get caught up in their chosen “method” and forget the fundamentals and put all of their focus in one thing and call it success. I like RM, as it takes care of the chemistry aspect of the holy Trinity of reef keeping, which allows me to focus on biology and lighting. Flow is tied to all of them. It’s good that we ask each other questions, as long as we listen to each other and try to learn and not simply point fingers or just be a skeptic without purpose. Sometimes, the best way to learn is to be quiet and listen. And no, I’m not pointing fingers here, just making an observation that I see all too often. Happy reefing!

 

[Reefahholic]

Have there been any commonalites of certain elements across many users that has made a difference or maybe levels higher than NSW?

Of course and we run most elements elevated.

 

[Reefahholic]

Good question. From personal experience and from what I see on the FB group (from my limited time scanning through) I would say barium, molybdenum, strontium, flouride and sometimes potassium seem to be part of the monthly corrections. I can't speak for others, but these elements are pretty much the ones I dose on a monthly basis. There are a few others as well, but their corrections seem to be lower or not every month. I'll actually post this question with the group and see what everyone has to say. It would be very interesting to see what everyone is dosing.

Good assessment! Flouride is number 1. Boron number 2. Barium, Moly, and those others are needed a lot as well.

 

[Reefahholic]

I think the question is not so much what is needed to dose to maintain levels, but what happens if you do not maintain them (or maintain them at different levels).

For example, I expect barium to get depleted (without any dosing) as it will be readily incorporated into calcium carbonate in place of calcium.

The question is whether the actual concentration of barium matters at all. I'm personally quite skeptical of that one since barium has no known biological role in any organism.

Barium will get depleted as long as you’re not using IO salt.

I keep seeing elevated Barium and Lithum levels with IO. I run IO like you do Randy so I finally switched salts. Lithium I’m not as concerned about as I don’t think it affects anything too much, but Barium is a little more important and could possibly slow growth a little. Regardless, even if there is not much data about these elements I do not want them heavily elevated in my tank as compared to NSW.

 

[Superlightman]

Im in the same boat as I use the DSR EZ trace elements in all my systems from day one and I think my colors are respectable.
I like to keep my systems as simple as possible but thats just me.
Check my build for colors.

Great colors ,with full led and some lens same the others do I think the colors would be even more nice on a picture

 

[Reefahholic]

I did my first ICP test at 2.5 years and barium was 25 ug/l range was 0-10.
All other elements were inline.
Interesting thing is I have never dosed it. I do 12g's a month WC in my 120 with IO purple.
Just thought I would throw that out their.

IO is known to have higher Barium and Lithium. Beem using IO for years and finally switched.

Although I don’t believe either of those elements are very important, but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that Barium can slow growth or even cause STN events especially if other elements like Iodine are low. Lithium doesn’t seem to be much to worry about, but regardless of data I can see what the majority of NSW levels are and would like to stay fairly close to them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Barium will get depleted as long as you’re not using IO salt.

I keep seeing elevated Barium and Lithum levels with IO. I run IO like you do Randy so I finally switched salts. Lithium I’m not as concerned about as I don’t think it affects anything too much, but Barium is a little more important and could possibly slow growth a little. Regardless, even if there is not much data about these elements I do not want them heavily elevated in my tank as compared to NSW.

FWIW, my tank with no barium dosing and 1% daily changes with IO ran at 8.5 ppb if Triton's test was accurate:

 

[Reefahholic]

I love the RM method but the users can be tough to follow. I unfollowed the RM group on Facebook because it is usually a bash "insert group/person/method name here" and that provides me nothing. Either help those asking questions or move on. It is simple. If you have to bash Chevy to prove your Ford is better, I know your Ford isn't better. Ya?

Colors can be amazing with so many methods it is ridiculous to say one is better than the other. Especially when a lot of RM colors are very fake and "LED looking" to me. I use RM for healthy corals (and I have seen this personally with my own corals.) Rainbow colors do not equal health. Possibly, the exact opposite. Corals in the wild are most colorful when they are ready to die. Something to think about...

I use halides and will likely never see the LED colors we see many RM users achieve. I am 100% okay with that because I don't care for LEDs.

I would argue some of the best colors on any corals are Abe at Coral Euphoria. Does he employ RM? Nope, not even close from what I can tell. So to argue that one must use RM to get the BEST colors ever is a slap in the face and hurts the RM method more than anything.

I’ve bought some of Abe’s corals and seen his tank on video. No doubt It’s a nice tank and colors are popping. After seeing his frags in person it’s clear that he is running ULN system which is giving him the color pop you see on video.

I’ve also bought frags from Andre and seen his tank in person. I can tell you that his corals are the most vivid corals I’ve ever seen in person. Elevating trace elements and keeping the entire chemistry on point is no joke.

 

[Reefahholic]

FWIW, my tank with no barium dosing and 1% daily changes with IO ran at 8.5 ppb if Triton's test was accurate:

That is nice! Your tank is also like 10 years old! Most of the tanks I see are like 1-3 years old. I need to start pulling ICP’s from older tanks to see if they’re consuming these elements better, because I’d love to stick with what I know (IO). For now, especially with my young tank I’m gonna switch so the levels don’t get any higher. I’ll have 2 ICP results in a week. Haven’t done any WC’s…hoping it was consumed a bit. I’ll report back.

 

[rtparty]

I’ve bought some of Abe’s corals and seen his tank on video. No doubt It’s a nice tank and colors are popping. After seeing his frags in person it’s clear that he is running ULN system which is giving him the color pop you see on video.

I’ve also bought frags from Andre and seen his tank in person. I can tell you that his corals are the most vivid corals I’ve ever seen in person. Elevating trace elements and keeping the entire chemistry on point is no joke.

You don't have to convince me with RM. Been running it for a year now. Would I say my colors are over the top or vivid? No. They are halide colors (read as more natural) and my nitrates are a little too high to be honest.

Abe does run ULN and says so in his videos. If my tank ever looks like that, I won. I'd go on in this hobby forever happy with that level of health and color. Andre's tanks are amazing as well. If I didn't think they were, I would have never headed down this route and wouldn't endorse it the way I do.

However, I don't endorse it for ultra rainbow unicorn Skittle fart colors. If one wants that, RM can get them there for sure. I endorse it for the health it brings my pets. Health comes first for me. Always. If crazy colors follow, awesome I will take them. I'd love to spread around healthy, colorful frags to locals. Healthy corals mean less from the ocean and more success for new hobbyists. More success means more hobbyists stay in the game.

I'm also very impressed that Andre shares what is in his additives. That is paramount for me. I will not condone or endorse any system that tries to hide how it works. (Vibrant, KZ, etc.) Andre also personally helped me this last week when all my red anacropora died overnight. He was very thorough checking through what I did. We think we found the issue and that's the kind of customer service I get behind.

 

[Reefahholic]

You don't have to convince me with RM. Been running it for a year now. Would I say my colors are over the top or vivid? No. They are halide colors (read as more natural) and my nitrates are a little too high to be honest.

Abe does run ULN and says so in his videos. If my tank ever looks like that, I won. I'd go on in this hobby forever happy with that level of health and color. Andre's tanks are amazing as well. If I didn't think they were, I would have never headed down this route and wouldn't endorse it the way I do.

However, I don't endorse it for ultra rainbow unicorn Skittle fart colors. If one wants that, RM can get them there for sure. I endorse it for the health it brings my pets. Health comes first for me. Always. If crazy colors follow, awesome I will take them. I'd love to spread around healthy, colorful frags to locals. Healthy corals mean less from the ocean and more success for new hobbyists. More success means more hobbyists stay in the game.

I'm also very impressed that Andre shares what is in his additives. That is paramount for me. I will not condone or endorse any system that tries to hide how it works. (Vibrant, KZ, etc.) Andre also personally helped me this last week when all my red anacropora died overnight. He was very thorough checking through what I did. We think we found the issue and that's the kind of customer service I get behind.

Exactly.

 

[biecacka]

You don't have to convince me with RM. Been running it for a year now.

However, I don't endorse it for ultra rainbow unicorn Skittle fart colors. If one wants that, RM can get them there for sure. I endorse it for the health it brings my pets. Health comes first for me. Always. If crazy colors follow, awesome I will take them. I'd love to spread around healthy, colorful frags to locals. Healthy corals mean less from the ocean and more success for new hobbyists. More success means more hobbyists stay in the game.

I think the big takeaway here is that even if you achieve skittle fart colors in your tank to pass along to other mere mortals....if they aren't running RM they most likely wont have the same color success that you are having. To me, that is the difficult pill to swallow to speak. "I know what this looks like in rtparty's tank so i will put it mine because the skittle fart colors are STANKY!!!" but then if i dont run RM then the colors wont be the same for me. people could get upset.

corey

 

[rtparty]

I think the big takeaway here is that even if you achieve skittle fart colors in your tank to pass along to other mere mortals....if they aren't running RM they most likely wont have the same color success that you are having. To me, that is the difficult pill to swallow to speak. "I know what this looks like in rtparty's tank so i will put it mine because the skittle fart colors are STANKY!!!" but then if i dont run RM then the colors wont be the same for me. people could get upset.

corey

Very true but this isn't exclusive to RM or any other method out there.

All the time we buy stuff and it changes in our tanks. Sometimes good, sometimes bad

 

[biecacka]

I totally agree! That is why i like to buy local so I can see it in person first!

corey

 

[Reefahholic]

I’m hoping to have a few skittle farts soon. I’d love to get my hands on this one from @Thomas Coral Fragz

CoralFragZ Nemisis:

 

[mindme]

Just started doing this method this week.

My initial impressions are that I like the bottles and the way things came. Everything I needed was included, even though I didn't realize I needed them. Dosing is not difficult, however I do not understand when he talks about weighing things.

The initial cost was high($400ish), but I was expecting that, so there was no shock for that involved. When I look at what I had been paying for the additives from tropic marine and the amount I get, it doesn't seem out of line. It's just a bunch at a time. I think over time it will be cheaper and less wasteful.

I dislike that the support and such is tied to facebook as I do not use facebook, nor do I have any interest in this. I understand he's turning something he figured out into a business, but IMO he needs to get his own forum for users. It's really really really easy and cheap. Very much a turn off that he uses facebook.

I also dislike that the calculator is tied to excel, another thing I don't have and have no desire to buy. Again I understand that he's a guy turning this into a business etc, but it's just not good to require that kind of thing. In the event he posts here, I would happily write the equivalent in php, which could then be uploaded to his website and people wouldn't be forced to use that. And perhaps a printer friendly page with the dosing instructions.

 

[Kazumi]

You don't have to buy Excel, you can use OpenOffice which is free. I would assume that there are other free options for an excel file also.