Reef moonshiners program

[minus9]

I was using AFR when I started, he told me the same thing he's told ESV users: send off your test, do your corrections, continue with what you're doing now. If you have certain things continuing to climb that are included in your current program then consider switching away from it. I ultimately left AFR for that reason. There are a number of users who left ESV for that, and a number who have had no significantly high levels from it and continue to use it.

This! @Hydrored just use up your current supply and switch to something else down the road. I'm currently using AFR on my nano and it's been pretty good so far, but I'll most likely move to just carbocalcium down the road? In my nano, I just under dose my dailies slightly and I haven't had any issues so far. In my 90g I stopped my calcium reactor until I find some cleaner/more pure media than ARM or Reborn. Since I feed a lot, I don't need the extra phosphorus provided by that media. I would like to try the Tunze calcium media, since it has a higher melting rate than some of the other "pure" medias. And to answer your question about the method, yes, it's awesome and very simple to follow. The only issue/problem people run into, is biology. But that's a whole other topic onto itself.

 

[Hydrored]

This! @Hydrored just use up your current supply and switch to something else down the road. I'm currently using AFR on my nano and it's been pretty good so far, but I'll most likely move to just carbocalcium down the road? In my nano, I just under dose my dailies slightly and I haven't had any issues so far. In my 90g I stopped my calcium reactor until I find some cleaner/more pure media than ARM or Reborn. Since I feed a lot, I don't need the extra phosphorus provided by that media. I would like to try the Tunze calcium media, since it has a higher melting rate than some of the other "pure" medias. And to answer your question about the method, yes, it's awesome and very simple to follow. The only issue/problem people run into, is biology. But that's a whole other topic onto itself.

Thanks! I really should go back to a calcium reactor on the 300 gallon, 2 part on my 210 is already getting out of hand along with my PH getting up to 8.4 ++ peak. Listening to Andre was interesting especially with his take on reactor media.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose in small amounts daily:
Vanadium
Manganese
Iodine
Rubidium
Chromium
Cobalt
Iron

I know this post was from a few months ago, but I thought I'd comment on that set of elements.

Most of those are critical elements and many deplete fairly fast and are well worth measuring and dosing.

Then there's rubidium...

No known biological role in any organism known to man.

I'm personally not convinced by the reports I've seen from reefers that it has desirable effects.

If it were me, I'd dose it as an experiment, and only continue if there was an apparent benefit, not because it matches seawater. But as long as you just match seawater concentrations, dosing is certainly unlikely to cause problems.

Same for iodine dosing, but that's for another time...

 

[CNDReef]

I’m also a RM user and love it. My tank improved significantly after being on RM for a couple of months.

 

[rtparty]

Thanks! I've read the handbook a couple of times now, currently listening to the video from last night. I'm willing to change away from ESV but I'll be wasting the gallons of ESV I have on hand unless I can sell them locally.

Do you recommend the program? The new tank will be all SPS and 2 of my OG LPS corals.

Full send. I've never had a tank do so well.

 

[Chris Spaulding]

I started the Shine about 5 months ago. Things were doing good but with the shine went from good to GREAT. Could not be easier and only takes me about 5 min in the morning to dose the dailies while I feeding
the tank.

 

[KJoFan]

This! @Hydrored The only issue/problem people run into, is biology. But that's a whole other topic onto itself.

I'm just curious if you are indicating the RM program itself eventually leads to a decline/lack of biology/diversity within a reef tank?

Or, were you just saying the RM program doesn't address the need for diverse biology?

 

[minus9]

I'm just curious if you are indicating the RM program itself eventually leads to a decline/lack of biology/diversity within a reef tank?

Or, were you just saying the RM program doesn't address the need for diverse biology?

No, this is an issue with reefers not understanding the importance of biology (bacteria) in our tanks. And it seems to be an issue with a lot of dry rock tanks and has nothing to do with RM at all. I was just stating this is an area where people get lost or overlook. RM is awesome and very simple to follow.

 

[MikeTheNewbie]

Reef Moonshiners allows me to continue to use other dosing products like BRS Ca, Alk, Mg, (which would be cost prohibitive for me with Triton or ATI as my system uses a ton of Ca and Alk), Brightwell Strontion, and Potassium, the concentration of corrective elements is close to that of the Triton system but the price of all elements is $20 each for 500ml other than the expensive Rubidium which is $40 for 500ml and is not a necessary component. I uses dosing pumps for more than half of the elements and do monthly corrections of the others as needed. Reef Moonshiners departs from using levels found in natural seawater in its dosing calculations, instead Andre has tweaked many of the levels allowing for improved color and possibly growth rates but color improvements for sure. Another advantage of the Moonshiner program is that so far Andre has never run out of elements when I need them as is the case with Triton. Also Andre is pretty much ALWAYS available to answer questions or provide assist and does so quickly and without any attitude. I have also purchased a coral pack from him and it was by far the most carefully prepared and shipped corals I have ever received. I had one coral die and Andre was quick to include extra elements in my next dry good order to make up for the loss even though he was not responsible. He goes above and beyond to make his system work for your tank. I look forward to the future as he expands his system(hint, hint carries Vanadium).

Hi, do you use the diluted elements with the dosing pumps or are your pumps precise enough to dose the regular concentration ones? Which elements and which pumps do you use together?
Thanks

 

[minus9]

Hi, do you use the diluted elements with the dosing pumps or are your pumps precise enough to dose the regular concentration ones? Which elements and which pumps do you use together?
Thanks

I would only use the “nano pump” dailies with a dosing pump. The normal version of these elements are only being dosed a few drops at most a day, but that depends on the size of your tank/system? Have you read the handbook?

 

[Lilnoelle80]

This sounds pretty amazing. I hate the waste of water changes and my corals certainly need something beyond what I’m providing them. One question - how are you managing nitrates and phosphates without water changes? I figure protein skimmers are helping - but I mean beyond mechanical filtration. Large refugiums?

 

[danieyella]

This sounds pretty amazing. I hate the waste of water changes and my corals certainly need something beyond what I’m providing them. One question - how are you managing nitrates and phosphates without water changes? I figure protein skimmers are helping - but I mean beyond mechanical filtration. Large refugiums?

I run an ats instead of a refugium. Harvest weekly.

 

[minus9]

This sounds pretty amazing. I hate the waste of water changes and my corals certainly need something beyond what I’m providing them. One question - how are you managing nitrates and phosphates without water changes? I figure protein skimmers are helping - but I mean beyond mechanical filtration. Large refugiums?

Water changes never really put a dent into nutrients, unless you’re changing a large amount weekly, which does more harm than good. Algae reactor, DSB, bacteria like PNS Probio, right size protein skimmer. There’s a long list of things that contribute to nutrient reduction/export. Read the handbook (twice) and go from there. Watch the live stream Andre did with ReefDudes, he goes over quite a bit.

 

[danieyella]

Water changes never really put a dent into nutrients, unless you’re changing a large amount weekly, which does more harm than good. Algae reactor, DSB, bacteria like PNS Probio, right size protein skimmer. There’s a long list of things that contribute to nutrient reduction/export. Read the handbook (twice) and go from there. Watch the live stream Andre did with ReefDudes, he goes over quite a bit.

And then once you're done with all that, read the handbook a 3rd time for good measure!

 

[Hooz]

I was using AFR when I started, he told me the same thing he's told ESV users: send off your test, do your corrections, continue with what you're doing now. If you have certain things continuing to climb that are included in your current program then consider switching away from it. I ultimately left AFR for that reason. There are a number of users who left ESV for that, and a number who have had no significantly high levels from it and continue to use it.

I currently use AFR (bottled liquid), and I've been reading a LOT about the RM method.

Now that all the individual components are available in powdered, "roll your own" form, what would stop someone from making their own AFR and just leaving out the trace elements? I ask because I run nano tanks and space is at a premium under the stand for dosing pumps, reservoirs, etc, so the "all-in-one" aspect really appeals to me (one reservoir, one pump). I suppose you could even tweak your own mix of the big three based on your tank's consumption, right?

 

[Radman73]

How many here use dosing pumps? Daily dosing is a non starter for me as I travel frequently on weekends and don't really have anyone I trust to do it in my absence. If I need 15 dosing pumps, fine, I'm an absolute sucker for tank "things" and automation due to the travel. Just curious what others experience is. I can travel for up to 2 weeks, if I can simply "make up" the daily by pre dosing and post dosing that works to. I work from home when I don't travel, which honestly the 1-2 week travel isn't even that often, but don't want to make progress and then watch everything go downhill 5-6 times a year lol!


Edited to add:
Disregard about vacations, if I'd only read 4 pages further the answer would be there. Still curious about dosing pumps. My total system volume is roughly 150'ish.

 

[rtparty]

I currently use AFR (bottled liquid), and I've been reading a LOT about the RM method.

Now that all the individual components are available in powdered, "roll your own" form, what would stop someone from making their own AFR and just leaving out the trace elements? I ask because I run nano tanks and space is at a premium under the stand for dosing pumps, reservoirs, etc, so the "all-in-one" aspect really appeals to me (one reservoir, one pump). I suppose you could even tweak your own mix of the big three based on your tank's consumption, right?

Unless I missed something, you can't control each trace element in AFR. You can do the DIY version if you want but the trace elements in A and K are still set by Tropic Marin.

You can't control the alkalinity and calcium in AFR either. They are combined in the calcium formate solution and you have no control over that.

I have been using AFR on my 50g LPS tank for close to a year now. It isn't all that great. My numbers are all out whack with it and I will be selling all my leftover as soon as I sell the tank

 

[minus9]

I currently use AFR (bottled liquid), and I've been reading a LOT about the RM method.

Now that all the individual components are available in powdered, "roll your own" form, what would stop someone from making their own AFR and just leaving out the trace elements? I ask because I run nano tanks and space is at a premium under the stand for dosing pumps, reservoirs, etc, so the "all-in-one" aspect really appeals to me (one reservoir, one pump). I suppose you could even tweak your own mix of the big three based on your tank's consumption, right?

Once you remove the trace elements, you essentially have carbo calcium and magnesium. That would leave you room to dose trace elements as needed.

 

[Hooz]

Unless I missed something, you can't control each trace element in AFR. You can do the DIY version if you want but the trace elements in A and K are still set by Tropic Marin.

You can't control the alkalinity and calcium in AFR either. They are combined in the calcium formate solution and you have no control over that.

I have been using AFR on my 50g LPS tank for close to a year now. It isn't all that great. My numbers are all out whack with it and I will be selling all my leftover as soon as I sell the tank

I'm not talking about powdered AFR mix, I'm talking about the separate components that make up AFR. There is a "DIY recipe" that TM published before the powdered mix came out.

You can add or leave out anything you want that way.

I like the all in one approach for the big 3 so I can use a single dosing pump.

 

[minus9]

I'm not talking about powdered AFR mix, I'm talking about the separate components that make up AFR. There is a "DIY recipe" that TM published before the powdered mix came out.

You can add or leave out anything you want that way.

I like the all in one approach for the big 3 so I can use a single dosing pump.

I'm sure you can dose just CarboCalcium and Mag, then dose trace as you see fit. My guess, AFR power is cheaper, maybe?