reef-pi :: An opensource reef tank controller based on Raspberry Pi.

Krheigh

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Any ideas what to do?
I recently installed a pH probe it works but it fluctuate way to much (see image)
When in calibration fluids it doesn't fluctuate at all.
Screenshot_2022-06-06-09-56-58-060_com.android.chrome.jpg
 
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Sral

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Any ideas what to do?
I recently installed a pH probe it works but it fluctuate way to much (see image)
When in calibration fluids it doesn't fluctuate at all.
Screenshot_2022-06-06-09-56-58-060_com.android.chrome.jpg
I would open a separate thread for that.
Here is another thread to look at.

Other electrical equipment can have a big influence, so it might be a good idea to unplug other devices one at a time, if possible, or ground your tank. Refer to the linked thread I gave above. Hope that will put you on the right track ;)
 

Krheigh

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I would open a separate thread for that.
Here is another thread to look at.

Other electrical equipment can have a big influence, so it might be a good idea to unplug other devices one at a time, if possible, or ground your tank. Refer to the linked thread I gave above. Hope that will put you on the right track ;)
Yeah I figured that i had to add a grounding probe this is after adding that...
I'll take a look on your link
 
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PlantedAquaChicago

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I'm having a heck of a time adding an EZO pH probe to my setup. I'm using a Leviathan Reef Pi board which I'm not going to comment on at this point. The main problem I have is that there's never an analog input to choose from when I go to add it in the pH section. I have:

Manually configured the EZO board to i2c (blue LED)
Configured the EZO board to multiple different i2c addresses
Scanned using i2cdetect and seen the EZO board show up just fine in the RPi OS at whatever address I give it
Added the driver in reefpi using the correct i2c address - have no problems there
When I try to add a connector and select the ph driver, I have no option to select pin 0 or any pin at all, the dropdown is blank. If I try to select a pin before I select a driver, the lowest number pin I can select is 2, there is no 0. Once I select the driver as pH, I cannot select a pin.
If I try to click save, I get the error:{"ERROR":"Failed to create. Error: Inlet pH did not get associated with a driver pin: inlet pH driver lookup failire: driver Atlas Scientific EZO(pH) is not an input driver"} HTTP 500

Any help?
 

Tom Bishop

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I'm having a heck of a time adding an EZO pH probe to my setup. I'm using a Leviathan Reef Pi board which I'm not going to comment on at this point. The main problem I have is that there's never an analog input to choose from when I go to add it in the pH section. I have:

Manually configured the EZO board to i2c (blue LED)
Configured the EZO board to multiple different i2c addresses
Scanned using i2cdetect and seen the EZO board show up just fine in the RPi OS at whatever address I give it
Added the driver in reefpi using the correct i2c address - have no problems there
When I try to add a connector and select the ph driver, I have no option to select pin 0 or any pin at all, the dropdown is blank. If I try to select a pin before I select a driver, the lowest number pin I can select is 2, there is no 0. Once I select the driver as pH, I cannot select a pin.
If I try to click save, I get the error:{"ERROR":"Failed to create. Error: Inlet pH did not get associated with a driver pin: inlet pH driver lookup failire: driver Atlas Scientific EZO(pH) is not an input driver"} HTTP 500

Any help?
Did you do a reload from the admin screen after adding the driver? Might try that and see if it changes anything...
 
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Ranjib

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I'm having a heck of a time adding an EZO pH probe to my setup. I'm using a Leviathan Reef Pi board which I'm not going to comment on at this point. The main problem I have is that there's never an analog input to choose from when I go to add it in the pH section. I have:

Manually configured the EZO board to i2c (blue LED)
Configured the EZO board to multiple different i2c addresses
Scanned using i2cdetect and seen the EZO board show up just fine in the RPi OS at whatever address I give it
Added the driver in reefpi using the correct i2c address - have no problems there
When I try to add a connector and select the ph driver, I have no option to select pin 0 or any pin at all, the dropdown is blank. If I try to select a pin before I select a driver, the lowest number pin I can select is 2, there is no 0. Once I select the driver as pH, I cannot select a pin.
If I try to click save, I get the error:{"ERROR":"Failed to create. Error: Inlet pH did not get associated with a driver pin: inlet pH driver lookup failire: driver Atlas Scientific EZO(pH) is not an input driver"} HTTP 500

Any help?
After you add the new driver, you are not able to create an analog connector with that driver? the connector type is analog input, not inlet (digital input), or outlet (digital output) or jack (pwm)
 
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Ranjib

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Yeah I figured that i had to add a grounding probe this is after adding that...
I'll take a look on your link
Which circuit you are using? does it have galvanic isolation?
 

Krheigh

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Which circuit you are using? does it have galvanic isolation?
I'm not sure what you mean...
I'm using a pH module from diy more, a cheap probe with no name and a ads1115 analogue to digital converter.
What should be galvanic isolated?

I'm quick fixing it atm with a macro that fill a small 3d printer camber then measure pH
But after i had to add a "wait" in the macro it won't trigger any macro
 

PlantedAquaChicago

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I'm having a heck of a time adding an EZO pH probe to my setup. I'm using a Leviathan Reef Pi board which I'm not going to comment on at this point. The main problem I have is that there's never an analog input to choose from when I go to add it in the pH section. I have:

Manually configured the EZO board to i2c (blue LED)
Configured the EZO board to multiple different i2c addresses
Scanned using i2cdetect and seen the EZO board show up just fine in the RPi OS at whatever address I give it
Added the driver in reefpi using the correct i2c address - have no problems there
When I try to add a connector and select the ph driver, I have no option to select pin 0 or any pin at all, the dropdown is blank. If I try to select a pin before I select a driver, the lowest number pin I can select is 2, there is no 0. Once I select the driver as pH, I cannot select a pin.
If I try to click save, I get the error:{"ERROR":"Failed to create. Error: Inlet pH did not get associated with a driver pin: inlet pH driver lookup failire: driver Atlas Scientific EZO(pH) is not an input driver"} HTTP 500

Any help?
I wanted to give an update on this. The issue was in Reef Pi itself. The web page was loading in a way that the option for adding inlets wasn't showing on the webpage, possibly due to a smaller monitor I was using and formatting? When I connected to reef pi remotely using a browser, I saw the options I needed and it started working correctly.

I got everything calibrated and working perfectly last night sitting on my counter. As soon as I moved the whole setup over to the aquarium and put the probes in the water, the pH probe started giving readings of 21 through 23 pH levels. When I would take my calibration liquids over to the aquarium, pull out the probe and test I was getting correct readings - but in the aquarium water I was consistently getting readings as high as 25 and the lowest was 14. Using litmus paper and test strips I have repeatedly verified that my pH is 6.45 in my aquarium. Does anyone know why the pH probe would give such crazy readings? Is it a light-based sensor, and could my bright LED lights be causing it to freak out?
 
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Sral

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I wanted to give an update on this. The issue was in Reef Pi itself. The web page was loading in a way that the option for adding inlets wasn't showing on the webpage, possibly due to a smaller monitor I was using and formatting? When I connected to reef pi remotely using a browser, I saw the options I needed and it started working correctly.

I got everything calibrated and working perfectly last night sitting on my counter. As soon as I moved the whole setup over to the aquarium and put the probes in the water, the pH probe started giving readings of 21 through 23 pH levels. When I would take my calibration liquids over to the aquarium, pull out the probe and test I was getting correct readings - but in the aquarium water I was consistently getting readings as high as 25 and the lowest was 14. Using litmus paper and test strips I have repeatedly verified that my pH is 6.45 in my aquarium. Does anyone know why the pH probe would give such crazy readings? Is it a light-based sensor, and could my bright LED lights be causing it to freak out?
If the probe reads correctly in the liquid but shows 14-24 in the water it probably means that the probe is getting electrically disturbed.
It basically measures a small voltage (+-120 mV or so) over a high resistance (electrical potential between an electrode in the water and an electrode in a pH 7.0 reference liquid that are connected through high resistivity glass and your water, as far as I understand). Any stray current that wants to correct potential differences across the probe will influence that voltage. 20 pH means it reads something like -1 Volt, so I think you might have an isolation problem.
 

PlantedAquaChicago

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If the probe reads correctly in the liquid but shows 14-24 in the water it probably means that the probe is getting electrically disturbed.
It basically measures a small voltage (+-120 mV or so) over a high resistance (electrical potential between an electrode in the water and an electrode in a pH 7.0 reference liquid that are connected through high resistivity glass and your water, as far as I understand). Any stray current that wants to correct potential differences across the probe will influence that voltage. 20 pH means it reads something like -1 Volt, so I think you might have an isolation problem.
Any idea how I'd resolve this? I just turned off everything in my tank to try to isolate the issue, all pumps, lights, power heads, even the co2. Made no difference. When I check the pH with the calibration fluids on top of the aquarium I get slightly higher than normal readings (by about 1 pH) but when its inside the aquarium water it's adding like 15 pH.
 

Sral

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@PlantedAquaChicago
  • First thing: is your pH probe galvanically isolated ?
    • From what you are writing I am going to assume that you are using the Atlas Instruments EZO pH circuit with a Leviathan board. Did you plug it directly into the I2C port on the Leviathan board, or do you have an isolation circuit in between ? The Atlas Instruments one has an old Style and a new Style, with both you plug the EZO circuit into the isolator circuit with 2 x 3 header style pins.
    • It basically acts as a (very) big resistance for currents that want to use the EZO circuit to get the power lines. That way the voltage created by those currents acts on the isolation circuit and not your EZO probe circuit.
  • Second: try and find the electric disturbance.
    • Typically you will switch equipment off.
    • If that doesn't help, you also unplug it.
      • You never know if the switches interrupt all lines, especially Ground and Earth
    • You can also try to ground your aquarium water using a grounding probe and preferably the ground pins on the AC socket that you run all the equipment from. Looks something like this
      • That is a two edged sword however. As soon as your water is grounded (and your pH circuit has access to ground as well) it acts as a loop of wire with the pH circuit being one of the highest resistances in that loop. So any current induced by electrical interference will cause a voltage in the pH circuit additional to the desired voltage of the pH signal. Again, this will be somewhat mediated by an isolation circuit, as it will be even higher resistance than the pH circuit, reducing the induced current and therefore the influence.
 
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PlantedAquaChicago

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@PlantedAquaChicago
  • First thing: is your pH probe galvanically isolated ?
    • From what you are writing I am going to assume that you are using the Atlas Instruments EZO pH circuit with a Leviathan board. Did you plug it directly into the I2C port on the Leviathan board, or do you have an isolation circuit in between ? The Atlas Instruments one has an old Style and a new Style, with both you plug the EZO circuit into the isolator circuit with 2 x 3 header style pins.
    • It basically acts as a (very) big resistance for currents that want to use the EZO circuit to get the power lines. That way the voltage created by those currents acts on the isolation circuit and not your EZO probe circuit.
  • Second: try and find the electric disturbance.
    • Typically you will switch equipment off.
    • If that doesn't help, you also unplug it.
      • You never know if the switches interrupt all lines, especially Ground and Earth
    • You can also try to ground your aquarium water using a grounding probe and preferably the ground pins on the AC socket that you run all the equipment from. Looks something like this
      • That is a two edged sword however. As soon as your water is grounded (and your pH circuit has access to ground as well) it acts as a loop of wire with the pH circuit being one of the highest resistances in that loop. So any current induced by electrical interference will cause a voltage in the pH circuit additional to the desired voltage of the pH signal. Again, this will be somewhat mediated by an isolation circuit, as it will be even higher resistance than the pH circuit, reducing the induced current and therefore the influence.
Great info, thank you so much! So yes, I did not only turn everything else off, I also unplugged it - thinking the same thing you mentioned. The pH still jumps to 25 as soon as it's in the aquarium water, but tests fine when I put the probe in the calibration solution sitting on top of my aquarium lid in cups.

To answer your question, yes - I have a breakout board inbetween the Leviathan and the probe itself. For the time being I'm using a solderless breadboard for all of my sensors. This works perfectly on my counter and at the aquarium, it's only when the pH probe is IN the aquarium water that I get the crazy readings.

Just for giggles I ran a ground line from my solderless breadboard and put the other end in the aquarium water. Guess what I get? Perfectly accurate readings. What the heck does that mean?

I'd rather not have a ground wire shoved in my tank, but if I have to do so I guess I can use stainless or titanium or something. I have each sensor on that breadboard with it's own dedicated ground, even though back at the Pi/Leviathan it's a floating ground with continuity between all grounds (tested >4 ohms resistance which is the same reading I get when touching the multi meter probes together, essentially saying these are all connected with no resistance).

Any ideas?
 

PlantedAquaChicago

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Great info, thank you so much! So yes, I did not only turn everything else off, I also unplugged it - thinking the same thing you mentioned. The pH still jumps to 25 as soon as it's in the aquarium water, but tests fine when I put the probe in the calibration solution sitting on top of my aquarium lid in cups.

To answer your question, yes - I have a breakout board inbetween the Leviathan and the probe itself. For the time being I'm using a solderless breadboard for all of my sensors. This works perfectly on my counter and at the aquarium, it's only when the pH probe is IN the aquarium water that I get the crazy readings.

Just for giggles I ran a ground line from my solderless breadboard and put the other end in the aquarium water. Guess what I get? Perfectly accurate readings. What the heck does that mean?

I'd rather not have a ground wire shoved in my tank, but if I have to do so I guess I can use stainless or titanium or something. I have each sensor on that breadboard with it's own dedicated ground, even though back at the Pi/Leviathan it's a floating ground with continuity between all grounds (tested >4 ohms resistance which is the same reading I get when touching the multi meter probes together, essentially saying these are all connected with no resistance).

Any ideas?
I wanted to add another piece of information - I pulled out my temperature and all other probes at the same time I unplugged everything besides the pH sensor.

So to repeat, I get normal (accurate) readings when I run a wire from the 5v - from my Leviathan and plug the other end into the water. When I remove that "water ground wire" I get crazy results, even with absolutely nothing else powered being plugged into or around the water.
 

Sral

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@PlantedAquaChicago
Alright, that sounds to me like there is a potential difference between the tank and your circuit's ground. Might either be from the tank OR from your circuit, since voltages are relative potential differences.

As soon as you connect your tank to your circuit's Ground with a low resistance wire the potential difference is drastically decreased, as evident by the pH measurement accuracy. That means that whatever is causing the potential difference can't supply a lot of current, as per usual for these kind of disturbances.
The residual potential difference that remains is whatever current the disturbance source can deliver times the (very) low resistance of the connecting wire. Or in other words: the internal series resistance of the disturbance source is much higher than your wire's resistance, so the voltage in that circuit drops mainly over the disturbance source, not the wire between the circuit and the tank.

Try for giggles to measure the voltage between the circuit's ground and your water with a multimeter. Would be funny if it is about the 1 V I calculated earlier ^^
If that is so, ground your tank as earlier with a wire, but put a resistor in series. Measure the voltage again. If you can find a resistor that drops the voltage about half, that's the internal resistance of the disturbance source.

My solution, if you don't want a ground wire in your tank, try to ground your circuit instead. If the circuit's ground is floating, as you mentioned earlier, it's something you might want to do anyway. I would recommend to connect your circuit's Ground to your AC socket's earth (the large earthing rod for US plugs, not the shorter Poles !) over something like a 1k resistor. The value should be much lower than the disturbance source's internal resistance I mentioned earlier, but high enough to limit power flow to something non-destructive.

One thing however: the whole thing sounds like your pH circuit is not properly isolated. If it were it shouldn't be disturbed that much by this potential difference in my oppinion. I am however not a professional, so I might be wrong on that ^^
 
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Sral

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I'm not sure what you mean...
I'm using a pH module from diy more, a cheap probe with no name and a ads1115 analogue to digital converter.
What should be galvanic isolated?

I'm quick fixing it atm with a macro that fill a small 3d printer camber then measure pH
But after i had to add a "wait" in the macro it won't trigger any macro
BTW, he meant that your pH module should be galvanicaly isolated from the rest. In your case, the ADS1115. This can be done by something like this.

If you don't do something like this you typically end up with readings like @PlantedAquaChicago
 

PlantedAquaChicago

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@PlantedAquaChicago
Alright, that sounds to me like there is a potential difference between the tank and your circuit's ground. Might either be from the tank OR from your circuit, since voltages are relative potential differences.

As soon as you connect your tank to your circuit's Ground with a low resistance wire the potential difference is drastically decreased, as evident by the pH measurement accuracy. That means that whatever is causing the potential difference can't supply a lot of current, as per usual for these kind of disturbances.
The residual potential difference that remains is whatever current the disturbance source can deliver times the (very) low resistance of the connecting wire. Or in other words: the internal series resistance of the disturbance source is much higher than your wire's resistance, so the voltage in that circuit drops mainly over the disturbance source, not the wire between the circuit and the tank.

Try for giggles to measure the voltage between the circuit's ground and your water with a multimeter. Would be funny if it is about the 1 V I calculated earlier ^^
If that is so, ground your tank as earlier with a wire, but put a resistor in series. Measure the voltage again. If you can find a resistor that drops the voltage about half, that's the internal resistance of the disturbance source.

My solution, if you don't want a ground wire in your tank, try to ground your circuit instead. If the circuit's ground is floating, as you mentioned earlier, it's something you might want to do anyway. I would recommend to connect your circuit's Ground to your AC socket's earth (the large earthing rod for US plugs, not the shorter Poles !) over something like a 1k resistor. The value should be much lower than the disturbance source's internal resistance I mentioned earlier, but high enough to limit power flow to something non-destructive.

One thing however: the whole thing sounds like your pH circuit is not properly isolated. If it were it shouldn't be disturbed that much by this potential difference in my oppinion. I am however not a professional, so I might be wrong on that ^^
I will try all of that. The logic seems sound for sure.

Thanks!
 
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Ok, I'm about to jump in the deep end. Is Robo Tank still the best way to just purchase a premade Reef Pi setup?
That is a good option there are others like @Schreiber Leviathon offers, and I am sure there are some other stuff out there. Hit me up via PM and I can give you some other things to think about etc...:)
 

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