Reef Zelements Z Complete System

[Felix_Brown]

Well, pHplus is a 2.5 Molar (10%) Sodium Hydroxide solution. You definitely don't want that near anyone or anything that corrodes easily you care for.

I hope those bottles all come with safety instructions attached not just an orange danger triangle on the back. Because, with a product like that you should be prepared for dealing with spillage and appropriate first aid measures.

All the faff of DIY might actually help people understand what they are dealing with and take proper precautions. Instead of buying an off the shelf product in a fancy and safe looking bottle.

I mix myself, I don't go higher than 1M (2%).
I use a lab coat, eye protection and gloves. When switching out pHplus bottle, those wouldn't be such a bad idea either.


I don't use Reef Zlements , but I have been dosing in this pH-dependent manner for several years now.
I do have the KH dosing programmed to my pH on a Profilux. It works fantastically well. When I started working from home a lot during Covid my tank got into trouble with very low pH. This way of dosing ended up saving it.

I've tried all the pH raising techniques.
The pH-dependent dosing seems complicated but I find it much easier to tune and deal with than anything using kalkwasser.
My tanks always used to use 1.2 to 1.5 KH per day. The pH-dependent dosing took it to 2.6 KH per day.

A downside I noticed now I'm allying it to a new tank, is that you need a certain level of KH consumption to give you the room to tune your pH. I went from a 230L system to 900L. It uses now about 1 KH per day, for this tank that is too little to be able to really choose a pH.

In the basis I just use the Original Balling recipe. That is entirely based on using a 1 meq/L KH solution, so easy to calculate with.
I make Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium bicarbonate and Calcium chloride solutions myself. The Balling part C (Mag/NaCl free salt) I buy off the shelf. For traces I add the Fauna Marin Trace 1-3 bottles to the KH and Calcium mixes. Cheap and works perfectly.

So, yes, I'm also a fan of that way of dosing!

Each one to their own.

But it is interesting how do you know what pHplus has in it and you don't even use it - my guess is that you might be wrong but, then again I'm not going to argue with you because there is no point in doing so, and will lead nowhere productive

That's a good point, you do need a critical coral mass in order for dkh consumption be sufficiently large and allowing one to add sufficient amount of PH raising solution. If DKH consumption is near or below 1DKH per day - it would be a complete waste of time (and money).

Nowadays my tank is at 3 DKH a day - and I manage to floor PH at 8.1 at night, this raises 8.5-8.6 towards the end of the day. I mainly dose high PH solution during night hours, during the day it's sodium carbonate, still PH raising but less potent.

I have seen your tank on UR and I must say if you have 3dKH of consumption something is wrong, perhaps you have some precipitation going on because, doesn't look like your corals consumption would be 3dKH. But, again is my opinion without having measured it and only by seeing pictures of it.

Anyway, I think the 3 of us are in agreement that managing ph in this manner is actually a very successful way to do it and if you want to DIY your solutions fill your boots as, I'm defo not doing it

 

[Borat]

Each one to their own.

But it is interesting how do you know what pHplus has in it and you don't even use it - my guess is that you might be wrong but, then again I'm not going to argue with you because there is no point in doing so, and will lead nowhere productive




I have seen your tank on UR and I must say if you have 3dKH of consumption something is wrong, perhaps you have some precipitation going on because, doesn't look like your corals consumption would be 3dKH. But, again is my opinion without having measured it and only by seeing pictures of it.

Anyway, I think the 3 of us are in agreement that managing ph in this manner is actually a very successful way to do it and if you want to DIY your solutions fill your boots as, I'm defo not doing it

Just to have no speculation here.

Aslo if you think ph plus contains something "magical" - there is not much i can counter that, i am afraid.


As for whether to DIY or buy ready-made, I never really argued one way or another, I am just merely stating that Z Elements plus is probably not appreciated for the fact that it has sodium carbonate/ sodium hydroxide (easily obtainable chemicals contained in all 2 part dosing mixes) - but for its trace elements mix.

 

[ReneReef]

Each one to their own.

But it is interesting how do you know what pHplus has in it and you don't even use it - my guess is that you might be wrong but, then again I'm not going to argue with you because there is no point in doing so, and will lead nowhere productive.

Wait what? I need to use something to know what it is???
I find out what things are as much as possible before I buy something. I noticed the popularity of Reef Zlements in the UK. So I did some digging to find out if its something for me. I found that it is just a Triton/ATI essentials+ clone, so I passed. Then I got intrigued by the pHplus bit...

You are using it, you are a fan and you don't know what it is you are using? Now that I find weird.
Especially because the pHplus MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is publicly available online:
https://pa.supply/media/pdf/64/1e/21/SD-Z-pHplus-Part-1BjY3q46z10epC.pdf
I'd like to direct your attention to paragraphs:
1.1/3.1 - there is says what it is: sodium hydroxide (but with a typo and wrong formula and molecular weight)
2.2 - what the hazard signs mean, with a summary of preventative measures
4.1 - the first aid measures to be familiar with
8.2 - appropriate ppe (personal protective equipment)

 

[Borat]

Wait what? I need to use something to know what it is???
I find out what things are as much as possible before I buy something. I noticed the popularity of Reef Zlements in the UK. So I did some digging to find out if its something for me. I found that it is just a Triton/ATI essentials+ clone, so I passed. Then I got intrigued by the pHplus bit...

You are using it, you are a fan and you don't know what it is you are using? Now that I find weird.
Especially because the pHplus MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is publicly available online:
https://pa.supply/media/pdf/64/1e/21/SD-Z-pHplus-Part-1BjY3q46z10epC.pdf
I'd like to direct your attention to paragraphs:
1.1/3.1 - there is says what it is: sodium hydroxide (but with a typo and wrong formula and molecular weight)
2.2 - what the hazard signs mean, with a summary of preventative measures
4.1 - the first aid measures to be familiar with
8.2 - appropriate ppe (personal protective equipment)

Most of those things are tested by trial-and-error, it is certainly a reputable product - why dont you buy it and see if it works for your tank?

 

[ReneReef]

Most of those things are tested by trial-and-error, it is certainly a reputable product - why dont you buy it and see if it works for your tank?

That is exactly the problem. Why should it be up to us to use trial and error (in other words: risk our animals) to show something works or not. However "reputable" a company may seem. And to seem reputable is very easy, just stick a nicely designed label on a bottle, have a nice website saying how amazing your product is without showing any data to corroborate that, say you are experienced specialists in a semi-relevant scientific field, buy yourself onto some youtube podcasts. Et voilà.

I don't doubt it will work.
So why buy it to confirm?

It will work as well as what I use now.
So why pay more than double I pay now?

There is a (in my mind) a very slim chance it may do slightly better at something, than what I use now. For, instance maintaining a trace element better at a certain level. But it would be virtually impossible to show if that is of any consequence or not.
And why should I spend money to find that out? If a company wants me as their costumer, they have to convince me. Not the other way round.

I have used plenty of methods from companies in the past. FM Balling Light, ATI Essentials Pro, Triton, ATI essentials+. All work perfectly fine. None, could provide the pH tuning I was looking for a couple of years ago. Reef Zlement now does, but it doesn't offer any worthwhile benefit over my current dosing practise apart from some conveniences. Namely, having things premixed and saving out one dosing channel.

 

[Borat]

That is exactly the problem. Why should it be up to us to use trial and error (in other words: risk our animals) to show something works or not. However "reputable" a company may seem. And to seem reputable is very easy, just stick a nicely designed label on a bottle, have a nice website saying how amazing your product is without showing any data to corroborate that, say you are experienced specialists in a semi-relevant scientific field, buy yourself onto some youtube podcasts. Et voilà.

I don't doubt it will work.
So why buy it to confirm?

It will work as well as what I use now.
So why pay more than double I pay now?

There is a (in my mind) a very slim chance it may do slightly better at something, than what I use now. For, instance maintaining a trace element better at a certain level. But it would be virtually impossible to show if that is of any consequence or not.
And why should I spend money to find that out? If a company wants me as their costumer, they have to convince me. Not the other way round.

I have used plenty of methods from companies in the past. FM Balling Light, ATI Essentials Pro, Triton, ATI essentials+. All work perfectly fine. None, could provide the pH tuning I was looking for a couple of years ago. Reef Zlement now does, but it doesn't offer any worthwhile benefit over my current dosing practise apart from some conveniences. Namely, having things premixed and saving out one dosing channel.

well.. dont buy it then, i guess..

 

[Felix_Brown]

Just to have no speculation here.

Aslo if you think ph plus contains something "magical" - there is not much i can counter that, i am afraid.


As for whether to DIY or buy ready-made, I never really argued one way or another, I am just merely stating that Z Elements plus is probably not appreciated for the fact that it has sodium carbonate/ sodium hydroxide (easily obtainable chemicals contained in all 2 part dosing mixes) - but for its trace elements mix.

I've seen the photos of your tank on Ultimate Reef, and honestly, I don’t think those corals are consuming 3 dKH of alkalinity daily. But, of course, that’s just my personal take and may not be particularly relevant to the original question.

Regarding your comments on pHplus, I initially interpreted that you were suggesting it was purely composed of carbonate and hydroxide.

I realise now that I misunderstood it and I see that you’re aware it contains other elements too - that is, I agree with you the value of of it!

To clarify my previous point, I wasn’t saying I don’t know what components it has, as they’ve been publicly disclosed, but rather the exact proportions of each.

In any case, everyone has their own approach, and some enjoy DIY solutions while others prefer ready-made products. I fall into the latter group and plan to keep using the products I’ve trusted and been satisfied with over the past four years.

So, yes I've been happily paying to test the products for them for the past 4 years

 

[Borat]

I've seen the photos of your tank on Ultimate Reef, and honestly, I don’t think those corals are consuming 3 dKH of alkalinity daily. But, of course, that’s just my personal take and may not be particularly relevant to the original question.

Regarding your comments on pHplus, I initially interpreted that you were suggesting it was purely composed of carbonate and hydroxide.

I realise now that I misunderstood it and I see that you’re aware it contains other elements too - that is, I agree with you the value of of it!

To clarify my previous point, I wasn’t saying I don’t know what components it has, as they’ve been publicly disclosed, but rather the exact proportions of each.

In any case, everyone has their own approach, and some enjoy DIY solutions while others prefer ready-made products. I fall into the latter group and plan to keep using the products I’ve trusted and been satisfied with over the past four years.

So, yes I've been happily paying to test the products for them for the past 4 years

Regarding precipitation - I obviously always question the sanity of what I do with the reef tank. If I had precipitation -it would have shown up somewhere after about a year of dosing to 2.4-3.0 (DKH consumption increased from 2.4 to 3.0 over a course of a year), but there is no-where that I can see precipitation, not on pumps, heaters, not in the sump. I don't have sand - so it cannot "hide" there either.

I can only explain high DKH consumption by having a lot of plating montipora - that covers the base rock everywhere and that I constantly trim/snap.

I also constantly give away coral colonies - just because they grow too fast.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Folks using ReefZelements might check this thread. I'm not sure what's going on with their recommendations.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/icp-testing-reef-zlements.1082506/

 

[Felix_Brown]

Folks using ReefZelements might check this thread. I'm not sure what's going on with their recommendations.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/icp-testing-reef-zlements.1082506/

I think might be a bug with the visual indicator... as aside from that seems consistent.

I am going to message them to let them know as it might be a hiccup. I know they don't manage the portal themselves and have hired a 3r party and are upgrading their portal to iron out some of those things and add some more functionality! :)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think might be a bug with the visual indicator... as aside from that seems consistent.

I am going to message them to let them know as it might be a hiccup. I know they don't manage the portal themselves and have hired a 3r party and are upgrading their portal to iron out some of those things and add some more functionality! :)

Sounds good. :)

 

[Felix_Brown]

Sounds good. :)

Apparently they weren't aware of that and weren't happy to learn about it.

Jose told me he was going to ask the developers to fix it immediately.

Suspect it will be fixed in the next hour or so as he is quite good with this type of stuff.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Apparently they weren't aware of that and weren't happy to learn about it.

Jose told me he was going to ask the developers to fix it immediately.

Suspect it will be fixed in the next hour or so as he is quite good with this type of stuff.

Thanks! :)

 

[stenopus]

The general consensus online is that the Zelement Z Complete 2-part dosing system is affordable and delivers great results.

Given these positive reviews, I’ve been considering this system instead of the Red Sea 4-part, when the time comes to dose. As someone new to reefing, I’ve been looking for a simple, cost-effective solution that works well.

However, after researching the Z Complete system, it seems more complex than a straightforward 2-part system. The instructions mention a 4 to 6 week ICP regimen with the addition of up to 12 individual marco and micro elements. These elements can then be mixed to create another 2-part dose, ultimately turning this into a 4-part dosing system that's more customised to the individual tank.

So, my question to the community is: are the rave reviews based on the full 4-part system, or can this be sucsessfully used as a 2-part setup only?

https://www.theaquariumsolution.com/quick-user-guide-reef-zlements-hybrid-2-part-dosing-system

another copy of Triton's way of reef keeping....