RODI Output Decreased - Booster Pump Help

[iannarelli]

My RODI unit—an Air, Water, & Ice Typhoon III Reefkeeper—which I have been using for the past 9 or so months, has slowed to a crawl. It was never super quick, I think due to a lack of pressure and my unusual setup, so I've been mulling over some upgrades. Now that it's hardly making water, I ordered new filters, ad pulled the trigger on a second 150GPD membrane add on. I've also been mulling the decision to add a booster pump, but I have some questions.

First, my setup. I'm in a 3rd story, NYC co-op apartment, and while I own it and could make a more permanent installation, I chose not to. My unit is connected to a 1/2" 3-Way universal shower diverter that has a 1/2" FPT to 1/4 OD tubing PTC fitting on it. So basically, I have a "shower" mode and a "RODI" mode I can choose between. There's a comical photo of the installation on my build thread, if you're curious.

As for my water, I'm measuring the pressure with a MEASUREMAN a glycerin-filled RO pressure gauge. It's reading between 40-45PSI when the line is capped after the gauge. When the system was running, it measures lower (in the 30s if I remember correctly). My incoming water is only about 30 TDS and there are no chloramines in it.

Everything I've read suggests I would benefit from a booster pump; and I've been doing some comparison shopping to see what my options are. What I've considered, so far:

1. Air, Water & Ice Booster - It comes with a prefilter, which I don't think I really need given the quality of my source water. It provides 60 PSI, which AWI claims is optimal. They also say a PSI of over 75 will overpower the RO unit. I don't t The unit also comes with a built-in brass needle valve used to balance existing pressure with the boosted pump water pressure. Apparently this is closed by default, but can be adjusted if the pump cycles on and off while making water. The pump is made in China.
2. Aquatec 8800 RODI Booster Pump Kit - These are available at numerous places (Buckeye Hydro, Amazon, SaltwaterAquarium.com, BRS) and are mostly the same kit, though Buckeye includes a strainer. It seems like this is usually to go-to pump, and it's made in the USA.
3. AquaticLife Smart Buddie - It has some fancy features, such as autoflushing, and generally positive reviews. It seems like it's a bigger piece of equipment though, which might not be ideal as I will likely be continually installing/uninstalling whichever unit I get.

I am a total newbie when it comes to this stuff, so I'd like some advice from someone who isbetter educated on this stuff. Now onto my questions.

1. Did I miss anything between the comparison of those three units? Is one significantly better?
2. Are there better options not listed?
3. Is the needle valve AW&I includes necessary? How would you adress a power-cycling pump in Auqatec or Smart Buddie?
4. Is 60 or 65 PSI really the limit? The RO membrane that shipped with my unit, and the add-on membrane, are both Axeon 150 GPD membranes. The technical specifications suggest they can be operated at higher pressures (unless I'm reading them wrong), which would theoretically give me a better production rate?
5. AW&I suggests trying to boost by more the 15 PSI could "overwork" the pump. Unfounded concerns, issue to their specific pump, or something I need to consider regardless of which pump I get?
6. Where along the chain do the pump get installed. BuckeyHydro's diagram shows the pump directly before the RO membrane, while AW&I seemingly shows it installed in before the sediment and carbon filters. With my low-TDS source water, does it matter?
7. Finally, for the add-on membrane I have coming, given my source water, what would be the best way to install it, in parallel or series?
   
   
   
   The above diagram is from this site. It seems like if I forego a booster pump, I should install it in parallel, but if I get the booster pump I should install it in series. I usually keep some RODI water on hand, so I don't know if I would benefit from the faster production.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR THE HELP!

 

[mann1139]

Aquatecs are bullet proof. No need to get creative.

 

[slingfox]

I have the Smart Buddie. What I have done is hook it up under the sink in my laundry room. When I need to use it I plug it in, pull out the short waste line and put it into the sink, and pull out the long clean RODI line and put in wherever rinsing needed. The clean RODI line is 25 ft long but rolls up and fits well underneath the sink. This setup didn’t require any permanent changes to anything in my house. The Smart Buddie gets imprimatur from a T at the clean water input to the sink.

 

[iannarelli]

Aquatecs are bullet proof. No need to get creative.

Thanks. By creative, you're referring to the extra stuff AW&I includes with their booster kit? What about the location of the pump and the target PSI?

 

[iannarelli]

I have the Smart Buddie. What I have done is hook it up under the sink in my laundry room. When I need to use it I plug it in, pull out the short waste line and put it into the sink, and pull out the long clean RODI line and put in wherever rinsing needed. The clean RODI line is 25 ft long but rolls up and fits well underneath the sink. This setup didn’t require any permanent changes to anything in my house. The Smart Buddie gets imprimatur from a T at the clean water input to the sink.

So you're only using the blue and red fittings? Does it do the auto-flushing and all the other "smart" features when set up like that?

 

[mann1139]

Thanks. By creative, you're referring to the extra stuff AW&I includes with their booster kit? What about the location of the pump and the target PSI?

I always believed in putting the booster pump between the cartridge filters and the membrane. The cartridges don't need the extra pressure to function.

Target PSI should be on membrane, but IIRC its 60-80.

That said, your 30 TDS is way below what most of us get, so 90% target rejection may be fine for you to output properly, where the rest of us need that 95% to get clean enough water.

 

[iannarelli]

I always believed in putting the booster pump between the cartridge filters and the membrane. The cartridges don't need the extra pressure to function.

Target PSI should be on membrane, but IIRC its 60-80.

That said, your 30 TDS is way below what most of us get, so 90% target rejection may be fine for you to output properly, where the rest of us need that 95% to get clean enough water.

Thanks, that makes sense about placement. As for target PSI, if I tee off me pressure gauge between the pump and the membrane, the pressure should read 60-80 while the system is running and producing water? I forget where I read it, but somewhere, someone was saying the pressure gauges aren't flow meters and don't give an accurate measurement unless the line is capped.

And yeah, the tap water is one thing NYC does really right. A 5-stage RODI is probably overkill for it, but I figured I'd need in the event I leave the city.

 

[Freenow54]

My RODI unit—an Air, Water, & Ice Typhoon III Reefkeeper—which I have been using for the past 9 or so months, has slowed to a crawl. It was never super quick, I think due to a lack of pressure and my unusual setup, so I've been mulling over some upgrades. Now that it's hardly making water, I ordered new filters, ad pulled the trigger on a second 150GPD membrane add on. I've also been mulling the decision to add a booster pump, but I have some questions.

First, my setup. I'm in a 3rd story, NYC co-op apartment, and while I own it and could make a more permanent installation, I chose not to. My unit is connected to a 1/2" 3-Way universal shower diverter that has a 1/2" FPT to 1/4 OD tubing PTC fitting on it. So basically, I have a "shower" mode and a "RODI" mode I can choose between. There's a comical photo of the installation on my build thread, if you're curious.

As for my water, I'm measuring the pressure with a MEASUREMAN a glycerin-filled RO pressure gauge. It's reading between 40-45PSI when the line is capped after the gauge. When the system was running, it measures lower (in the 30s if I remember correctly). My incoming water is only about 30 TDS and there are no chloramines in it.

Everything I've read suggests I would benefit from a booster pump; and I've been doing some comparison shopping to see what my options are. What I've considered, so far:

1. Air, Water & Ice Booster - It comes with a prefilter, which I don't think I really need given the quality of my source water. It provides 60 PSI, which AWI claims is optimal. They also say a PSI of over 75 will overpower the RO unit. I don't t The unit also comes with a built-in brass needle valve used to balance existing pressure with the boosted pump water pressure. Apparently this is closed by default, but can be adjusted if the pump cycles on and off while making water. The pump is made in China.
2. Aquatec 8800 RODI Booster Pump Kit - These are available at numerous places (Buckeye Hydro, Amazon, SaltwaterAquarium.com, BRS) and are mostly the same kit, though Buckeye includes a strainer. It seems like this is usually to go-to pump, and it's made in the USA.
3. AquaticLife Smart Buddie - It has some fancy features, such as autoflushing, and generally positive reviews. It seems like it's a bigger piece of equipment though, which might not be ideal as I will likely be continually installing/uninstalling whichever unit I get.

I am a total newbie when it comes to this stuff, so I'd like some advice from someone who isbetter educated on this stuff. Now onto my questions.

1. Did I miss anything between the comparison of those three units? Is one significantly better?
2. Are there better options not listed?
3. Is the needle valve AW&I includes necessary? How would you adress a power-cycling pump in Auqatec or Smart Buddie?
4. Is 60 or 65 PSI really the limit? The RO membrane that shipped with my unit, and the add-on membrane, are both Axeon 150 GPD membranes. The technical specifications suggest they can be operated at higher pressures (unless I'm reading them wrong), which would theoretically give me a better production rate?
5. AW&I suggests trying to boost by more the 15 PSI could "overwork" the pump. Unfounded concerns, issue to their specific pump, or something I need to consider regardless of which pump I get?
6. Where along the chain do the pump get installed. BuckeyHydro's diagram shows the pump directly before the RO membrane, while AW&I seemingly shows it installed in before the sediment and carbon filters. With my low-TDS source water, does it matter?
7. Finally, for the add-on membrane I have coming, given my source water, what would be the best way to install it, in parallel or series?
   
   
   
   The above diagram is from this site. It seems like if I forego a booster pump, I should install it in parallel, but if I get the booster pump I should install it in series. I usually keep some RODI water on hand, so I don't know if I would benefit from the faster production.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR THE HELP!

Well I have been in extensive communication regarding my RO system. Randy Holmes informed me of him finding huge blockage between the first 2 filters and the RO stage ( bacteria ) so check that I have not had that problem. As to the first filter You will be shocked at its condition. I was and I am on town water mine was completely black I used to have a picture to share but my computer crashed .... have to get another

 

[Freenow54]

Keep investigating a booster pump my system is a zero waste and has one mine is obviously very slow ( at least 24 hours for 35 gallons but no water down the drain.

 

[Freenow54]

Also a little tired right now but you may have a balancing valve which limits the hot water temprature. I have seen them cause problems as well. Pretty complex maybe ie as to pressure differential reaction if you will

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I have lots of opinions here relative to booster pump selection, I can share them with you if you give us a call.

But one thing that jumped out at me was you wanting two 150 gpd membranes... I'd recommend against this. Your prefilters are too small and your tubing is too small for this. An Aquatec 8800 is also too small for this configuration. We have a high capacity Aquatec pump that is what you need in this situation... but that doesn't resolve the issue with your small prefilters, fittings, and tubing.