ROUND 2! PAR Shootout! Seneye Reef Monitor v2 VS. Apex PMK vs. Apogee MQ-510 Full

[jason2459]

I got all the individual channels done earlier and put into my running spreadsheet this time.

And to clarify all results are on my sandbed in the center of the tank. Sand there is about 3" in a standard 72"x 24"x 24" 180.

Lets see how this shows up.

 

[jason2459]

There we go. I was surprised to see such low results across all channels for the Apex PMK. I expected the blues and reds to be low but not 0 at 30%. I also expected the white to be a lot higher and green to register something.

I gave each channel about 10 to 15 minutes to average out. The Seneye and Apogee were right with each other again.

Overall, I'm quite mystified. I'm almost finished up tracking the day's input comparing the Seneye vs Apex PMK and will post those later.

 

[jason2459]

Full day results. Under the channel columns are the percentages each of the 4x 32" Photon v2 fixtures are at for each channel.

 

[jason2459]

You can see the Apex PMK has a really hard time with the blues and deep red. Once the white channel kicked in and started ramping up the diff % started reducing.

 

[jason2459]

I asked this relevant question to Terence in another thread and got this cool reply

Terrance any chance you can say if the PMK will get it's sensor upgraded to the newer model to read the deeper blues especially with leds better?

With T5s it seems to do ok as it over compensates with the other mid-spectrum colors. But LEDs don't do that like MH or T5s.

Realistically, no, we don't plan on having a model with that sensor because it is just too pricey for the average reef keeper. Combine that with the fact that in relative comparisons on the same lights, it is absolutely still valid and will work just fine.

That said, a little known fact is that the PMK has both the sensor and a module to make it work. That module is called the ASM. The ASM can take inputs from a myriad of lab and industrial sensors since it can accept 0-1v, 0-5v, and with an inexpensive adapter 4-20ma. This means advanced Apex users could conceivably buy the ASM and then buy the newer 510 sensor on its own, adapt the cable, and they would have a solution for less than the standalone version of the Apogee meter itself.

 

[jason2459]

Too much information to read here and comprehend.. Can anyone summarize I am looking to buy a seneye, Neptunes Par, or apogee.. after seeing the BRS video I am kind of sold on Seneye....

Whats the best -based on personal analysis?

My personal opinion...


If I was in the market for a light meter my choice would hands down be the Seneye. It's highly capable, add in spectral analysis, LUX, and PUR gives it more features as a light meter then even the Apogee alone. Then it also complements my Apex as a monitor/alert system with the addition of Ammonia that the Apex doesn't do and a second check for other parameters like pH, temp, out of water. The Seneye also calculates Ammonium and Disolved O2. And that's with out considering cost.

If I was in the market for a light meter that I could take with me anywhere, use on multiple tanks, fit in small areas, share with friends, and easily pack up to take to the beach or out on a boat it would be the Apogee MQ510.

If I wanted something that looked good in the tank and purely for tracking a T5 or MH with out need for accuracy and ties in with the Apex and get all the logging with it or alerting or programming input logic from it then it would be the PMK of course. Its still a viable option just understand the restrictions/limitations as a light meter.

 

[tj w]

Wow, I wasn't expecting those poor results from the PMK.

 

[jason2459]

Wow, I wasn't expecting those poor results from the PMK.

I was expecting it to be lower and saw that the day before too. I seem to be blue heavy and very little green and red. Even the T5s I have are weighed a lot more in the blue with no red side to them and a tiny bit of green which surprisingly with the individual green channel the PMK didn't pick up at all. When my white channel increased the PMK edged up closer. So, I would say if you are in the 16k to 20k range the PMK will probably not do so well especially with the narrow spectrum of LEDs. To me my tank looks like a crisp 14-16k. I don't like 20k.

 

[jason2459]

Going for a second day here with the readings and tracking but doing it differently. Yesterday I was basically glued to a screen of some type all day. I grabbed live readings and dropped lows as that's just fish swimming over head or something like a starfish crawling over top.

So, today I'm just going to take logged readings. Which is not actually the most accurate as they can grab those very lows and not smart enough to ignore it. The Apex logs more times through out the hour which is nice. The Seneye is only 2 times an hour. I wish it was more or gave the option to choose how many times an hour to log.

But so far it's as expected. So, the readings over all are lower then yesterdays due to not averaging out over time better and the Apex is still more then statistically lower consistently. Will still keep tracking and post results tonight.

 

[jason2459]

2nd day of tracking done. With the Apex logging every 10 minutes it definitely had the advantage to register a better number through the hour. The Seneye only logs twice an hour and if the first one was blocked a lot and reports an obviously low bogus number you just hope the 2nd report logged isn't the same. Being able to get on the local interface to get live readings is very valuable if wanting to get accurate PAR numbers plus it gives you the PUR which isn't on the seneye.me cloud yet.

That said, nothing much changed. As I mentioned earlier they both over all have lower numbers the. Yesterday as they don't average things properly throwing out obviously wrong numbers.

And through out even with the logging advantage the Apex PMK was reading much lower PAR numbers. Pretty much what I saw a couple days ago when first putting the PMK in the tank. About a PAR of 20 lower when looking at what was reported to the cloud.

 

[msderganc]

2nd day of tracking done. With the Apex logging every 10 minutes it definitely had the advantage to register a better number through the hour. The Seneye only logs twice an hour and if the first one was blocked a lot and reports an obviously low bogus number you just hope the 2nd report logged isn't the same. Being able to get on the local interface to get live readings is very valuable if wanting to get accurate PAR numbers plus it gives you the PUR which isn't on the seneye.me cloud yet.

That said, nothing much changed. As I mentioned earlier they both over all have lower numbers the. Yesterday as they don't average things properly throwing out obviously wrong numbers.

And through out even with the logging advantage the Apex PMK was reading much lower PAR numbers. Pretty much what I saw a couple days ago when first putting the PMK in the tank. About a PAR of 20 lower when looking at what was reported to the cloud.

Thanks for this research, it's really helped me make a decision.

Any reason you choose the percentage difference instead of the actual? It looks like the Apex is just a flat 30 or so PAR below.

 

[jason2459]

Thanks for this research, it's really helped me make a decision.

Any reason you choose the percentage difference instead of the actual? It looks like the Apex is just a flat 30 or so PAR below.

It made the graph look more interesting. lol

But really it shows more in correlation with looking at the channels ramping up that the white channel helped the PMK most. Once those ramped down the percentage difference jumped right back up. Lines up with the individual channel testing as well.

And the actual readings are there as well.

 

[jason2459]

During peak times I think I can reliably depend on the PMK to be consistent and mentally add 20 to the PAR readings and use it for tracking. It seems to read close to the same values each day at the same time. So, it is precise just not accurate. But knowing that one can adjust. It also assumes my Seneye and MQ510 are closer to accurate. In comparing live readings the PMK was about 30 lower but I won't assume my Seneye and Apogee are perfectly accurate either.

I do like the hide away rock that Neptune provides and will keep it in the tank and I'll stick to my original plan with the Seneye in my overflow for backup monitoring to my Apex and run dry alert back there which would be a bad serario. Then pull it out and into the display periodically to track PAR, PUR, LUX.

 

[MatsReef]

I'd been leaning towards the Seneye due to the optional monitoring functions but this really helped out. Thank you @jason2459

 

[Frop]

I just bought myself a used Seneye today

 

[bubblemytip]

Purchased now. thanks for the review. I can't wait to get some readings on my GNC led.

Nice and even.

 

[Frop]

I just bought myself a used Seneye today

Unfortunately now I have to buy a windows computer to run it or their little web system. Didn't realize that.

 

[jason2459]

Unfortunately now I have to buy a windows computer to run it or their little web system. Didn't realize that.

Can get a very cheap used laptop or windows 8 tablet with USB on it. I used an old win 7 laptop until I got the SWS and honestly there's little difference between the two EXCEPT I love I can easily connect to the SWS from any device like my laptop, tablet, desktop, and phone. And that's locally connected unless you setup some kind of remote access into the network or port forwarding. Which I've done the later temporarily while trying to get live par readings through out the day. Otherwise the SWS reports out to seneye.me cloud like a windows pc would.

 

[jason2459]

Nice and even.

Looks very similar to the numbers I get.

 

[chefjpaul]

Thank you for this, As I have a Seneye in my cart @ BRS, just debating on to check out with it.

Great work!