Scooter blenny QT conundrum

[nvierra]

Are scooter blenny's carriers of common diseases? I was going to put mine in a QT tank but realized it won't have any food, and won't do well with copper. So what to do if you want one? If you do buy one, do you just keep it separate in observation before adding it to your display tank? Do you just avoid adding one altogether because you can't properly QT it? Or do you feel that it won't carry the common diseases so you'd risk just drip acclimating and adding to your display?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Are scooter blenny's carriers of common diseases? I was going to put mine in a QT tank but realized it won't have any food, and won't do well with copper. So what to do if you want one? If you do buy one, do you just keep it separate in observation before adding it to your display tank? Do you just avoid adding one altogether because you can't properly QT it? Or do you feel that it won't carry the common diseases so you'd risk just drip acclimating and adding to your display?

Scooter blennies are tough to quarantine. They can carry all of the same diseases as other fish, but as you pointed out, they will not get enough to eat in a bare QT.

I use a fishless coral frag system to hold these for 30 days observation, but I understand most people can’t do that.

Another option is to quarantine as normal, but feed them live pods (expensive).

 

[nvierra]

Scooter blennies are tough to quarantine. They can carry all of the same diseases as other fish, but as you pointed out, they will not get enough to eat in a bare QT.

I use a fishless coral frag system to hold these for 30 days observation, but I understand most people can’t do that.

Another option is to quarantine as normal, but feed them live pods (expensive).

Ahh ok, that makes perfect sense. I can't imagine buying that many copepods...

Thank you for the clear explanation. Other than aesthetics, are there major benefits to keeping scooters? I am in love with them but do they offer any other system benefits? Is there ever a need to control copepod populations?

 

[MnFish1]

Ahh ok, that makes perfect sense. I can't imagine buying that many copepods...

Thank you for the clear explanation. Other than aesthetics, are there major benefits to keeping scooters? I am in love with them but do they offer any other system benefits? Is there ever a need to control copepod populations?

There is probably always some benefit - in any case - I have fed them with live brine shrimp - using a turkey baster if needed. or copepods. If you could set up a live brine tank(should be simple) I might try that - let us know what you decide

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ahh ok, that makes perfect sense. I can't imagine buying that many copepods...

Thank you for the clear explanation. Other than aesthetics, are there major benefits to keeping scooters? I am in love with them but do they offer any other system benefits? Is there ever a need to control copepod populations?

I don’t know of any benefit for keeping them, and they sure can be delicate and a lot of work. Their low price keeps them popular though….

 

[Mebbid]

Tank Transfer method is the quickest way to get through QT for ich and velvet. You can add medications to pre treat for other things as well. As long as it's plump enough when you buy it you can get it through the QT process without it losing too much weight, thankfully they are a pretty sedentary fish. Either that or buy one that's already been quarantined.

https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/product/red-scooter-dragonet-for-sale-dr-reefs-quarantined-fish/

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Tank Transfer method is the quickest way to get through QT for ich and velvet. You can add medications to pre treat for other things as well. As long as it's plump enough when you buy it you can get it through the QT process without it losing too much weight, thankfully they are a pretty sedentary fish. Either that or buy one that's already been quarantined.

https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/product/red-scooter-dragonet-for-sale-dr-reefs-quarantined-fish/

Just to note: TTM works well for ich, but it doesn’t work for true velvet Amyloodinium, or flukes.

 

[Mebbid]

Just to note: TTM works well for ich, but it doesn’t work for true velvet Amyloodinium, or flukes.

You can do TTM for velvet as well.

https://humble.fish/community/threads/velvet-ttm.14912/
And for flukes you can use Prazi pro.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

You can do TTM for velvet as well.

https://humble.fish/community/threads/velvet-ttm.14912/
And for flukes you can use Prazi pro.

Sorry, TTM doesn’t work well for either issue. The resting stage of Amyloodinium can live in the gills and then are not excluded during transfer. Praziquantel doesn’t kill fluke eggs. Some of those have sticky tendrils that get them moved with the fish during transfers. It’s been shown that a single Neobenedenia egg is capable of restarting an infection. I stopped using TTM in the mid 1980’s due to these issues.

TTM also has two other major drawbacks: for newly collected fish, it is a poor choice for quarantine because new fish require a stable, secure environment to begin acclimating them to captivity - and the extra handling and transfers makes that much more difficult. Then, TTM fails as a treatment for existing fish from a DT because you cannot return them to the DT after the transfers because the infection is still in the DT.

Two cases where TTM works is with established fish that develop ich and can be moved to a non-infected tank afterwards or TTM using high dose hydrogen peroxide dips to control Amyloodinium/velvet (but really, copper is less stressful and more effective).

 

[Mebbid]

Sorry, TTM doesn’t work well for either issue. The resting stage of Amyloodinium can live in the gills and then are not excluded during transfer. Praziquantel doesn’t kill fluke eggs. Some of those have sticky tendrils that get them moved with the fish during transfers. It’s been shown that a single Neobenedenia egg is capable of restarting an infection. I stopped using TTM in the mid 1980’s due to these issues.

TTM also has two other major drawbacks: for newly collected fish, it is a poor choice for quarantine because new fish require a stable, secure environment to begin acclimating them to captivity - and the extra handling and transfers makes that much more difficult. Then, TTM fails as a treatment for existing fish from a DT because you cannot return them to the DT after the transfers because the infection is still in the DT.

Two cases where TTM works is with established fish that develop ich and can be moved to a non-infected tank afterwards or TTM using high dose hydrogen peroxide dips to control Amyloodinium/velvet (but really, copper is less stressful and more effective).

The basis of TTM working for ich is at its most basic you're outrunning the lifecycle of ich. Giving the fish time for the parasites to drop off and moving the fish before the parasites can hatch and reinfect the fish. Velvet works the same way, you just have to change the timeline. The guide I shared is one that Humblefish wrote giving specific directions for using the TTM to remove velvet. He knows WAY more about ich and velvet than I will ever know, so really I'm going to defer to his expertise on this one.

And you're right, prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs. Which is why in the directions a second treatment is required 7 days later. After fluke larvae hatch, it takes about 2 weeks for them to mature and lay more eggs.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

The basis of TTM working for ich is at its most basic you're outrunning the lifecycle of ich. Giving the fish time for the parasites to drop off and moving the fish before the parasites can hatch and reinfect the fish. Velvet works the same way, you just have to change the timeline. The guide I shared is one that Humblefish wrote giving specific directions for using the TTM to remove velvet. He knows WAY more about ich and velvet than I will ever know, so really I'm going to defer to his expertise on this one.

And you're right, prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs. Which is why in the directions a second treatment is required 7 days later. After fluke larvae hatch, it takes about 2 weeks for them to mature and lay more eggs.

As I said though, it’s been demonstrated that Amyloodinium/velvet tomonts can adhere to the fish’s gills, and get carried right along during a transfer. Humblefish apparently isn’t aware of that. Ich tomonts are larger and don’t adhere to gills, so TTM works for that parasite.

 

[Mebbid]

The basis of TTM working for ich is at its most basic you're outrunning the lifecycle of ich. Giving the fish time for the parasites to drop off and moving the fish before the parasites can hatch and reinfect the fish. Velvet works the same way, you just have to change the timeline. The guide I shared is one that Humblefish wrote giving specific directions for using the TTM to remove velvet. He knows WAY more about ich and velvet than I will ever know, so really I'm going to defer to his expertise on this one.

And you're right, prazi doesn't kill fluke eggs. Which is why in the directions a second treatment is required 7 days later. After fluke larvae hatch, it takes about 2 weeks for them to mature and lay more eggs.

As I said though, it’s been demonstrated that Amyloodinium/velvet tomonts can adhere to the fish’s gills, and get carried right along during a transfer. Humblefish apparently isn’t aware of that. Ich tomonts are larger and don’t adhere to gills, so TTM works for that parasite.

Do you have any reading to share on this? Im trying to look it up and finding nothing. Im halfway through a ttm quarantine currently and dont relish having to change the process.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Do you have any reading to share on this? Im trying to look it up and finding nothing. Im halfway through a ttm quarantine currently and dont relish having to change the process.

We discovered this at the Shedd aquarium back around 1985 or so - we were all hot to switch over to TTM, but it kept letting velvet through. We then looked at the fish’s gills and saw that. That was a deal breaker for us.

Now, for whatever reason, true velvet was more common back then, I dont know why….