Should I downgrade?

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I don't think this topic is brought up much in this hobby as all I see online is "bigger is better" but ever since upgrading my aquarium to a 750 litre I've had none stop issues... the tank has been set up for close to 2 years now and it's just been one problem after another.
20210706_165455.jpg

This is when I first set up the aquarium and from the move to a new house that was an hour away, we lost A LOT of corals I'm talking about $2000 AUD dead. gone, not just the corals but I lost a blue tang and royal gramma too...
This extremely demotivated me and I was depressed and didn't want much to do with the tank.
I kept getting cyano that smothered and killed Zoas, GSPs and mushrooms it was just a huge back and fourth battle with this never-ending-nightmarish-bacteria it was only about a year later I started finding my groove again, doing regular water changes and dosing kalk (I don't have an auto doser), corals looked good, fish were fat and healthy, but that didn't last long! NOPE even now the tank is just covered in cyano and algae... this is in mine and my partners living room it's a centre piece and it's just become a huge eyesore.

Because I know people will ask what my parameters are:

Salinity - 1.025
phosphate - 0.1
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 4
Alk - 7
Mag -1260
Calcium - 420

Equipment:
Red Sea Reefer 750
3x AI hydra 32s
Clarisea filter roller
Deltec 1500i protein skimmer
Red Sea Reefwave 45

The only thing stopping me from just downgrading right now is the fish, I LOVE all my fish pals and it would kill me to get rid of them, but this tank is an unbeatable boss for me! any advise or maybe if you know some cheat codes to reefing please, PLEASE help me!
 

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Everything in this hobby is about taking your time and learning from your mistakes. Many of us have lost thousands of dollars worth of livestock over the years. There are no cheat codes. I would advise against downgrading to a smaller tank. Generally speaking the larger water volume that you have in a system, the slow things happen and the easier it is to keep things in check.

Algae and cyano tend to come and go in a lot of systems. Even tanks that how been running for years without problems can suddenly have a outbreak. Just stay on top of your perimeters and WCs. Your tank will do the rest. Also, you didn't say what kind of schedule your lighting is running on, but it might be helpful to turn them down a bit or run them for less time per day.
 

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A troubled tank can definitely be frustrating but with a bit more work and care you can get it going, and there are plenty of us here to help you achieve it.

Cyano and algae are things we all deal with, even the most successful systems have them from time to time and it's part of our responsibility to take care of it when the need comes.

From the details you porvided there are a few things that need to be addressed:
1. Nutrients needs to be adjusted
Your phosphates are high and their consumption is limited by slightly low nitrates.
Dosing a bit of nitrates together with a carbon source would help you to drive them back into place.

2. Lack of flow - While a ReefWave is definitely a very capable wave maker, as a single source of flow in your tank it'll not be able to reach all places and cover the whole space. I would advice you to add a second or third wave makers, small ones to disturb the sand a bit and blow off detritus from your rock work.

3. Your Magnesium is low - bump it up to around 1350-1450.

4. Not necessarily a bad thing, however I would recommend you to bump your alk a bit as well towards 8-8.5 dKh, to have a bit of a wiggle room on the safe side.

Don't give up. Take your time and learn from your own experience, you'll gain the knowledge and feeling of your system rather quickly once things start to look better.
 

DanyL

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A troubled tank can definitely be frustrating but with a bit more work and care you can get it going, and there are plenty of us here to help you achieve it.

Cyano and algae are things we all deal with, even the most successful systems have them from time to time and it's part of our responsibility to take care of it when the need comes.

From the details you porvided there are a few things that need to be addressed:
1. Nutrients needs to be adjusted
Your phosphates are high and their consumption is limited by slightly low nitrates.
Dosing a bit of nitrates together with a carbon source would help you to drive them back into place.

2. Lack of flow - While a ReefWave is definitely a very capable wave maker, as a single source of flow in your tank it'll not be able to reach all places and cover the whole space. I would advice you to add a second or third wave makers, small ones to disturb the sand a bit and blow off detritus from your rock work.

3. Your Magnesium is low - bump it up to around 1350-1450.

4. Not necessarily a bad thing, however I would recommend you to bump your alk a bit as well towards 8-8.5 dKh, to have a bit of a wiggle room on the safe side.

Don't give up. Take your time and learn from your own experience, you'll gain the knowledge and feeling of your system rather quickly once things start to look better.
Forgot to mention another important bullet:
5. Get CUC - Tangs, Snails, Urchins, Hermit crabs, Emerald crabs, sand sifting gobbies, shrimps will all tremendously help you to keep up with algae and detritus, get a lot of them, 20-40 snails sounds about right for a tank this size, I have similar sized tank and these are the amounts I keep in mine.
 
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Forgot to mention another important bullet:
5. Get CUC - Tangs, Snails, Urchins, Hermit crabs, Emerald crabs, sand sifting gobbies, shrimps will all tremendously help you to keep up with algae and detritus, get a lot of them, 20-40 snails sounds about right for a tank this size, I have similar sized tank and these are the amounts I keep in mine.
Thank you for the words of encouragement,

I agree my alk and mag needs to be raised and better managed

also with the flow I do have another wavemaker I forgot to mention which is a coral box but yeah my flow is pretty terrible but there is a good reason... I HATE NOISE! ok not a good reason but in all seriousness if I run the wavemakers on max flow it has a slight hum to them

and you're 100% right on the CUC I should get some more snails as I only have like 10

Also I thought phos being 0.1 was fine? I saw lots of people say you should aim for 0.5 is that not good?
 
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Everything in this hobby is about taking your time and learning from your mistakes. Many of us have lost thousands of dollars worth of livestock over the years. There are no cheat codes. I would advise against downgrading to a smaller tank. Generally speaking the larger water volume that you have in a system, the slow things happen and the easier it is to keep things in check.

Algae and cyano tend to come and go in a lot of systems. Even tanks that how been running for years without problems can suddenly have a outbreak. Just stay on top of your perimeters and WCs. Your tank will do the rest. Also, you didn't say what kind of schedule your lighting is running on, but it might be helpful to turn them down a bit or run them for less time per day.
Thanks for helping, It's funny you mention the lighting because I believe I have the opposite problem as I only have 3 AI hydra 32s on a 6ft aquarium and here is the light with the intensity which I believe to be pretty low
Screenshot_20230128_001429_myAI.jpg
 

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if I run the wavemakers on max flow it has a slight hum to them
You shouldn't run them on a 100% setting, ReefWave 45 alone will blow the tissue off your corals.
If it seems to be weak, then they probably need a good cleaning.
I clean mine once every 1 to 1.5 month.
Also I thought phos being 0.1 was fine? I saw lots of people say you should aim for 0.5 is that not good?
0.1ppm is not terribly high, and while some people manage to keep theirs at around 0.2-0.3, the consensus today is to keep them between 0.03 to 0.09. It doesn't mean that it's wrong to keep it elevated, that is as long as everything is fine.
That being said, you'll utilize these phosphates together with nitrate and carbon additives to grow more good bacteria that'll hopefully takeover the cyano, and thus some of it will be consumed during this process and you'll be left within the 0.03-0.09 range.
 

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Thank you for the words of encouragement,

I agree my alk and mag needs to be raised and better managed

also with the flow I do have another wavemaker I forgot to mention which is a coral box but yeah my flow is pretty terrible but there is a good reason... I HATE NOISE! ok not a good reason but in all seriousness if I run the wavemakers on max flow it has a slight hum to them

and you're 100% right on the CUC I should get some more snails as I only have like 10

Also I thought phos being 0.1 was fine? I saw lots of people say you should aim for 0.5 is that not good?
Some folks will consider PO4 of 0.10 as being high but IMO is ok as long as tank is stable however 0.50 is definitely too high... unless these are typos and u meant PO4 of 0.01 and 0.05? In that case, 0.05 is fine however 0.01 is a bit low which can lead to Dino.

I also agree about increasing CUC, and highly recommend adding some copepods (the more bottles the better). Also if u don't already have any, I'd add either a Tang or Foxface to help keep the tank clean. Here's a good video re. controlling algae, which some disagree with, however I am a fan of.

As final advice, I'd hold onto the large system if it was me bc larger systems are more forgiving when it comes to tank husbandry and if downsized, you'd have to stay on top of things even more.

GL
 
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Some folks will consider PO4 of 0.10 as being high but IMO is ok as long as tank is stable however 0.50 is definitely too high... unless these are typos and u meant PO4 of 0.01 and 0.05? In that case, 0.05 is fine however 0.01 is a bit low which can lead to Dino.

I also agree about increasing CUC, and highly recommend adding some copepods (the more bottles the better). Also if u don't already have any, I'd add either a Tang or Foxface to help keep the tank clean. Here's a good video re. controlling algae, which some disagree with, however I am a fan of.

As final advice, I'd hold onto the large system if it was me bc larger systems are more forgiving when it comes to tank husbandry and if downsized, you'd have to stay on top of things even more.

GL

ah good point, I don't know if it's 0.1 or 0.01 I got it a spin touch reef test at my LFS as the tests I have at home were saying I had 0 nitrate and phos... I always had small tanks before getting this one and never ever had this much trouble with them.
I've been in the reefing hobby for close to 5 years and I do try and do my own research but I just feel exhausted when it comes to this tank even doing a 10% WC seems like so much more work then what I was doing haha
I'm really trying to weigh the pros and cons

EDIT - I should also add I have tried for a long time with multiple different ways to fix the cyano (which is the main problem I keep facing) I've added pods, dosed bottled bacteria, manually removed, used AF life source, used reef enhance by reefbrite all of these things do seem to "work" for a short period of time and then it just seems to slowly creep back.
 
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If you really have zeroed out nutrients, or very low this essentially means your bacteria is starving and thus cannot compete with the cyano. Feeding heavier or dosing both will help you elevate them.

I never used spin touch tests, however AFAIK they aren't very accurate.
Specifically for phosphates I recommend using the Hanna ULR checker, and for the others Salifert/Red Sea will be enough.
 

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Like most everything in life, pros and cons.

What is telling is that you had better success with smaller reef systems in the past, so maybe they are just a better fit for you :)

Here's a thought: How about downsizing to small reef and turning the large tank into a FOWLR? That way you can enjoy corals and the larger fish that you are so fond of, too.
 
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If you really have zeroed out nutrients, or very low this essentially means your bacteria is starving and thus cannot compete with the cyano. Feeding heavier or dosing both will help you elevate them.

I never used spin touch tests, however AFAIK they aren't very accurate.
Specifically for phosphates I recommend using the Hanna ULR checker, and for the others Salifert/Red Sea will be enough.
I do feed pretty light so I might up that also going to do some more testing in the next few days.
If I am bottoming out on my nutrients what carbon source would you recommend?
 
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Like most everything in life, pros and cons.

What is telling is that you had better success with smaller reef systems in the past, so maybe they are just a better fit for you :)

Here's a thought: How about downsizing to small reef and turning the large tank into a FOWLR? That way you can enjoy corals and the larger fish that you are so fond of, too.
That's what I was thinking with the smaller reef I don't know if I'd keep a FOWLR but then again I could get a regal angel without the worry of it eating coral! :p
 

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I do feed pretty light so I might up that also going to do some more testing in the next few days.
If I am bottoming out on my nutrients what carbon source would you recommend?
First of all you'll have to verify your test results, and only then to take action.

If your nutrients are bottomed out, then you are limited by both PO4 and NO3, not by carbon.
Once your nutrients start to pile up, then you'll be limited by carbon, and only then consider dosing it if needed.
 

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I had a similar experience recently with a cyano outbreak. I had been doing so well with my tank and I got lazy with my testing so before I knew it my levels were elevated and bam. Cyano everywhere. I did my best to just let things be. Did a huge water change and sorted out the issue but the Cyano refused to go away. I tried to tough it out as long as I could but after months with no relief in sight and at the risk of losing corals I gave in and used some ChemiClean. 48 hours later and the Cyano was gone! Did a huge water change and didn’t lose any livestock!

I know a lot of people are on the fence about chemiclean which is partly why I held off for so long but I was at the point that if I did nothing I was going to lose livestock anyway. I followed the directions to the letter including removing the skimmer cup and allowing it to overflow. (For extra aeration) Then after 48 hours did a 50% water change (brute trash cans work great for this) and returned the skimmer to normal operation. Put my carbon back into the system and had to adjust the skimmer for a bit but I was so relieved to see my tank back to its former glory.

That was over 6 months ago and the tank has been doing great again.

PS. My issue stemmed from an auto feeder that did not get shut off after returning from vacation. Nutrients shot up without me noticing until it was too late.
 

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Some folks will consider PO4 of 0.10 as being high but IMO is ok as long as tank is stable however 0.50 is definitely too high... unless these are typos and u meant PO4 of 0.01 and 0.05? In that case, 0.05 is fine however 0.01 is a bit low which can lead to Dino.

I also agree about increasing CUC, and highly recommend adding some copepods (the more bottles the better). Also if u don't already have any, I'd add either a Tang or Foxface to help keep the tank clean. Here's a good video re. controlling algae, which some disagree with, however I am a fan of.

As final advice, I'd hold onto the large system if it was me bc larger systems are more forgiving when it comes to tank husbandry and if downsized, you'd have to stay on top of things even more.

GL

Disagree on this last part, i have multiple tanks and kept many sizes over the years and bigger tanks are without a doubt harder. Sure water chemistry etc is more stable but you are still eventually going to get issues like GHA/Dinos/Aiptasia etc and when you do they are 1000% times harder to fix. There is no taking rock out and scrubbing or rip cleaning. Manual removal can take hours in tank only for it to pop back up the next day. It's just so much harder to correct issues. A 100% water change and rip clean on a 50g tank is a few hours, a 100% water change and deep cleaning on a 500g is a few days.

I like the idea someone else threw out, if it's stressing you out turn it into a fowlr and get a smaller tank for reef keeping
 

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why did you put a reef in that
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would you please describe your full move process as best as possible, we want to learn any pertinent details for our tank move and transfer thread

how did you handle your sandbed in that reef, when it was moved

-how did your prep water situation change, did you take from one home to the other the exact same gear that prepares your water for this reef? an ro/di setup>?
 

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why did you put a reef in that
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when you mentioned bacteria problems that's the part we'd like to hone in on
 

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Unless it's too expensive or just too much of a PITA to have a larger tank I'd stay with the bigger one.

More water = More Stability
 
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would you please describe your full move process as best as possible, we want to learn any pertinent details for our tank move and transfer thread

how did you handle your sandbed in that reef, when it was moved

-how did your prep water situation change, did you take from one home to the other the exact same gear that prepares your water for this reef? an ro/di setup>?
I setup the 6ft aquarium in our new home before we moved. I used a rodi system to fill the tank adding aquaforest reef salt then moved over everything from my old 4ft aquarium besides sand, I bought new sand and a few more pieces of caribsea rock to fill out the rest of the aquarium. I also used Dr Tims one and only
 
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