Sick fish?

[BasementBox]

So I had just bought this moorish idol a week ago. Zero symptoms. Had him in an acclimation box and was eating readily. About two days ago I noticed one spot on his dorsal fin and this morning woke up to find him like this. Advice. treatment? He is not lethargic not scratching on rocks and I’ve witnessed him eating multiple times today.

 

[BasementBox]

Bump

 

[ebushrow]

Looks like ick to me but I’ll let others weigh in

 

[BasementBox]

Yeah. Not sure. Especially since it’s been in DT for a week and eating fine

 

[BasementBox]

Looks like ick to me but I’ll let others weigh in

Mmm. Maybe it’s lympcytis. There is a large white spot on his dorsal which I noticed a day ago or so. Idk.

 

[BasementBox]

#fishmedic

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I had just bought this moorish idol a week ago. Zero symptoms. Had him in an acclimation box and was eating readily. About two days ago I noticed one spot on his dorsal fin and this morning woke up to find him like this. Advice. treatment? He is not lethargic not scratching on rocks and I’ve witnessed him eating multiple times today.

That’s marine ich, Cryptocaryon. It is a moderately severe infection at this point and will soon start spreading to the other fish. The spots may drop of the idol for a few days as they go through their life cycle, but they’ll return.

Treating this is going to be tough - either move all of the invertebrates out and treat the tank with hyposalinity, or move all of the fish out to a treatment tank and treat them all with Coppersafe at 2.25 ppm.

There is a process called ich management that sometimes works, but only in light infections, and IMO this fish is past that point - sorry.

 

[BasementBox]

That’s marine ich, Cryptocaryon. It is a moderately severe infection at this point and will soon start spreading to the other fish. The spots may drop of the idol for a few days as they go through their life cycle, but they’ll return.

Treating this is going to be tough - either move all of the invertebrates out and treat the tank with hyposalinity, or move all of the fish out to a treatment tank and treat them all with Coppersafe at 2.25 ppm.

There is a process called ich management that sometimes works, but only in light infections, and IMO this fish is past that point - sorry.

Lovely, so all inverts out, and then treat the whole tank? Will I have to worry about ammonia spikes being that there’s an established live rock and the tanks a year old?

It’s a full DT so yeah it’s easiest for me at this point to treat the tank.

 

[BasementBox]

In addition to this will it kill coral when copper is introduced. It’s a light load that I could possibly transfer if need be.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

In addition to this will it kill coral when copper is introduced. It’s a light load that I could possibly transfer if need be.

All invertebrates need to be moved out, including all corals. That may not be possible, but options are limited to that or moving all the fish out and treating with copper.

Here is a post on how to run hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BasementBox]

All invertebrates need to be moved out, including all corals. That may not be possible, but options are limited to that or moving all the fish out and treating with copper.

Here is a post on how to run hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

I don’t have coppersafe readily available but I do have a copper product, at this stage should I just go for the gusto? If you want to know the name I can find it in a few minutes. Your help is appreciated. Actuality my tank isn’t that coral heavy so it’s very feasible

 

[BasementBox]

All invertebrates need to be moved out, including all corals. That may not be possible, but options are limited to that or moving all the fish out and treating with copper.

Here is a post on how to run hyposalinity:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

I have cupramine. Will that suffice?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have cupramine. Will that suffice?

The problem is that cupramine will bond with rocks and sand, that requires careful re-dosing to maintain the proper 0.50 ppm level. However, that bond copper can also be released by the rocks later on, and that can poison your invertebrates months or years later. That's why for ich or flukes, it is best to run hyposalinity if you must treat your main tank.

 

[BasementBox]

The problem is that cupramine will bond with rocks and sand, that requires careful re-dosing to maintain the proper 0.50 ppm level. However, that bond copper can also be released by the rocks later on, and that can poison your invertebrates months or years later. That's why for ich or flukes, it is best to run hyposalinity if you must treat your main tank.

Thank you Jay. Unfortunately last night I did move forward with the cupramine but it’s good to know what I could be dealing with. Do you have recommendations on next steps I should take. Should I go hyposalinity still in conjunction with it cupramine or just cupramine.

How do the old hats deal with cupramine that may have minded to the rocks. Carbon rest of the tanks life?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay. Unfortunately last night I did move forward with the cupramine but it’s good to know what I could be dealing with. Do you have recommendations on next steps I should take. Should I go hyposalinity still in conjunction with it cupramine or just cupramine.

How do the old hats deal with cupramine that may have minded to the rocks. Carbon rest of the tanks life?

I would not combine hypo and copper, the stress of each would be combined.

Copper absorbed into the rocks is tough to manage. The copper is more or less stably bound depending on the pH of the water. A pH drop years later could release a slug of copper. In other cases, a limited copper treatment doesn’t cause any issues.

Carbon is not very good at removing copper - water changes works better. There are also some copper sequestering agents on the market.

 

[BasementBox]

I would not combine hypo and copper, the stress of each would be combined.

Copper absorbed into the rocks is tough to manage. The copper is more or less stably bound depending on the pH of the water. A pH drop years later could release a slug of copper. In other cases, a limited copper treatment doesn’t cause any issues.

Carbon is not very good at removing copper - water changes works better. There are also some copper sequestering agents on the market.

sounds like you’re recommending due to me being hasty the best approach would be rock and sand reset once treatment is complete?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

sounds like you’re recommending due to me being hasty the best approach would be rock and sand reset once treatment is complete?

I’m not sure I understand - I think hyposalinity would be the best course of action as it preserves all of your rock and sand afterwards.

 

[Tamberav]

Copper is going to make it difficult to keep inverts in the future.

Hyposalinity is what I would do if you plan to have inverts after.

 

[BasementBox]

My apologies since I guess I was unclear. I dosed the cupramine last night and have to wait the 48 hours for the next dose. That said is all fish are eating. A few show white spots but the moorish idol is clearly infected. I could stop with the half dose and go hypo salinity still. I know the horse is out of the stable so to speak.