Starting over. Need some advice.....

[GoTakeANap]

Hello everyone. I have been out of the swing of things for about 3 years now. I have been busy the last few years with my children. I currently have 2 fish but will be relocating to a friends tank. 1st off I am getting rid of all my LR and going with a different reef structure this go round. The only thing that will be left in the tank will be the Live Sand.

Would you get rid of the sand and start all over or leave it in the tank? I know if I remove it, I would have to wait on the tank to cycle again. I would be replacing it with CaribSea Arag-Alive Live Aragonite Reef Sand.

As for water. Do I keep the water or get rid of it all and start over with fresh saltwater?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Cory]

New tank new sand and water imo. It really depends how dirty it is.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

If I was "starting over" I would take the entire thing down, including sand, and restart from fresh, saving only about 50% of the water as it will have some (but not a lot) of the bacteria you will need to restart your cycle (it will also have some nutrients in it, which could be a double edge sword depending on whatever battles you are fighting).

However, if you're just redoing your aquascape I would leave the sand and save most of your water.

 

[KrisReef]

Why are you removing the rock and keeping the sand? If you have “bad rock” I would expect the sand to also be “bad?” Unless you are just wanting a different type of rockscape for esthetics?

 

[LiveWire]

If I were starting a system over again I would start with everything new. Congrats on getting back into it!

 

[brandon429]

removing the sand does not redo the cycle, the live rocks carry enough for the whole system and the live sand added ten million extra units of unneeded surface area beyond the ones already sufficient in live rock

 

[Gregg @ ADP]

You can knock substantial time off starting a whole new cycle by saving a piece of rock and maybe some sponge or pad that’s lingering around in your filter.

The long wait for cycling to become established stems mainly from starting with a sterile environment and waiting for bacteria to establish. Adding a single established rock (take one from the back/bottom that wasn’t getting any light) adds not just nitrifying bacteria, but beneficial heterotrophic bacteria as well...instantly. You could go even further and give 3-4 cups of sand a good rinse in a bucket of saltwater. Scoop sand out with a net and try to get as much detritus as possible out. Put sand in bucket, pour a gallon or so of saltwater in, stir it around to get detritus suspended, pour water out, repeat for a few more gallons and the water should be clear. Pour over new sand and viola! You’re cycling.

Now, nitrifiers don’t have that quick level of reproduction we see in many bacteria, but you’re still only talking 4-5 days to get up to speed.

 

[BeejReef]

You can knock substantial time off starting a whole new cycle by saving a piece of rock and maybe some sponge or pad that’s lingering around in your filter.

The long wait for cycling to become established stems mainly from starting with a sterile environment and waiting for bacteria to establish. Adding a single established rock (take one from the back/bottom that wasn’t getting any light) adds not just nitrifying bacteria, but beneficial heterotrophic bacteria as well...instantly. You could go even further and give 3-4 cups of sand a good rinse in a bucket of saltwater. Scoop sand out with a net and try to get as much detritus as possible out. Put sand in bucket, pour a gallon or so of saltwater in, stir it around to get detritus suspended, pour water out, repeat for a few more gallons and the water should be clear. Pour over new sand and viola! You’re cycling.

Now, nitrifiers don’t have that quick level of reproduction we see in many bacteria, but you’re still only talking 4-5 days to get up to speed.

what he said

 

[GoTakeANap]

Why are you removing the rock and keeping the sand? If you have “bad rock” I would expect the sand to also be “bad?” Unless you are just wanting a different type of rockscape for esthetics?

Different rockscape is all but the tank does have a little hair algae on the rocks. Ill post a picture of the LR in the tank a little later on tonight. Its 1 big piece (30lb) and 2 smaller pieces. Just want a different look with all new fish in the next few weeks. Tank needs a really good cleaning, that is why I asked about the sand.

 

[brandon429]

we have cleaning threads where we replace, rip out all the sand and not recycle, here's one

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

we show that sand is incidental in reefing, expendable, when any normal amnt of live rock is used. That means we can go bare bottom instantly, without a ramp up, or we can tap rinse the sand

or change it out for dry

the sand is neutral regarding nitrification safety unless the live rock is abnormal in some way.

 

[Mical]

I would use about 20% of your old sand mixed w/new live sand. I would use as much as the old water as possible and add new as needed.

 

[W1ngz]

Toss the sand, keep your favorite couple of pieces of rock in a bucket with old tank water for seeding, and start completely fresh. There is negligible bacteria in the water column. The stuff you want is on the surfaces of the rock.

 

[Jon Fishman]

What I would do........based on bad hair-algae/new scape only


1) remove all live-rock and put in sump if available

2) now that tank has no fish/rock, manually stir up the sand and constantly filter/remove all you can.

3) scrub the sides down with sponges/scrubbies by hand

4) Repeat step 2, Keep cleaning everything in the sand

5). By the time you’re done cleaning in this manner, you probably need to add about 50% of the water back...... add it, let the tank settle a few days, and repeat steps 1-4 and then let it run and do another 50% water-change again


Fully removing the sand, dumping it in buckets and mixing by hand in new saltwater and then draining water and putting sand back in after a big cleaning/waterchange could also work too...... but probably not necessary


Scrubbing down the inside of the tank and agitating the sand, even with lots of pumps, etc should be easy with no rocks/fish/etc. I would avoid a total tear-down.....


Edit. how big a tank we talking???

 

[GoTakeANap]

What I would do........based on bad hair-algae/new scape only


1) remove all live-rock and put in sump if available

2) now that tank has no fish/rock, manually stir up the sand and constantly filter/remove all you can.

3) scrub the sides down with sponges/scrubbies by hand

4) Repeat step 2, Keep cleaning everything in the sand

5). By the time you’re done cleaning in this manner, you probably need to add about 50% of the water back...... add it, let the tank settle a few days, and repeat steps 1-4 and then let it run and do another 50% water-change again


Fully removing the sand, dumping it in buckets and mixing by hand in new saltwater and then draining water and putting sand back in after a big cleaning/waterchange could also work too...... but probably not necessary


Scrubbing down the inside of the tank and agitating the sand, even with lots of pumps, etc should be easy with no rocks/fish/etc. I would avoid a total tear-down.....


Edit. how big a tank we talking???

54 gallon corner tank.

 

[GoTakeANap]

This is why I was wondering if I should start over. The tank has been neglected for awhile.

 

[Scorpius]

I'll trade you my mess for yours.

 

[KrisReef]

Oh, I think I see what you are talking about. The live rock doesn't look bad if you only want fish (and those mushrooms & nasty pest tube snails). With a little cleaning to lower nitrate and phosphate, the minimal hair algae could go away. If you are thinking of adding more delicate corals then it might make sense to toss all of your sand and either "acid wash" your existing rock or buy new and start completely over with fresh rock and sand that is pest free. If you keep the sand you might accidentally "keep" those snails, so if you want to be rid of them start over clean would be the best route for you, imo.

 

[GoTakeANap]

Oh, I think I see what you are talking about. The live rock doesn't look bad if you only want fish (and those mushrooms & nasty pest tube snails). With a little cleaning to lower nitrate and phosphate, the minimal hair algae could go away. If you are thinking of adding more delicate corals then it might make sense to toss all of your sand and either "acid wash" your existing rock or buy new and start completely over with fresh rock and sand that is pest free. If you keep the sand you might accidentally "keep" those snails, so if you want to be rid of them start over clean would be the best route for you, imo.

I plan on having a reef tank. So my plans are just to completely start over with new sand and rock. Gonna use the Life shape rocks which are not LR but im sure you already know that. With that being said, Would the new live sand be enough to get the tank cycle started? 1 last question. Is the basic rule of thumb still 80 lbs of live sand for a 55 gallon tank or do I need to add more? Thanks for the help.

 

[GoTakeANap]

I'll trade you my mess for yours.

haha is your mess that bad?

 

[Scorpius]

haha is your mess that bad?

There's no haha with my tank. Only years of work down the drain. Lessons learned. This hobby sure teaches you how to deal with failure.