Swedish fish - behind the scenes rebuilding a public aquarium

[d.fast]

Most of the base "rock" is the same height, a bit boring perhaps? A bit artificial? I think the rocks on the right side are too big. I think the view from that side will look a bit cramped and shut in when water is in and making strange stuff to the perspective. The side facing the small window will probably be very shaded and not great for corals that depend on light.

My wish:

Make a pillar that extends above the water surface! So corals can encrust all the way to the waterline without if being a wall. Fairly steep and vertical, not too sloped so it looks like a spike but rather like a giant pole, a large rock slowly eaten thinner by the mighty oceans current...

That's it! The scape need more romanticising! Every boulder needs a story and a background! Being chiseled out by a mighty parrot fish with a purpose or having been dug out of a watery grave by a legion of furious engineer gobies!

Looking great, don't forget the weirdness that water does to the proportions of the stuff inside and depth perception.

 

[Lasse]

Looking great, don't forget the weirdness that water does to the proportions of the stuff inside and depth perception.

There is a mantra coming from the oldest member of the team - test with water, test with water. test with water This is the only reason why all works is done in a real 1:10 tank and not in a 3 d program. When David has finished with his sculptural works of art - it will be glued and in with water. That's also the reasons why the right parts are as high as they are.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Brew12]

There is a mantra coming from the oldest member of the team - test with water, test with water. test with water This is the only reason why all works is done in a real 1:10 tank and not in a 3 d program. When David has finished with his sculptural works of art - it will be glued and in with water. That's also the reasons why the right parts are as high as they are.

Sincerely Lasse

I would have thought the oldest member of the team would have been more concerned with how the coffee maker was plumbed in!

 

[Sallstrom]

Most of the base "rock" is the same height, a bit boring perhaps? A bit artificial? I think the rocks on the right side are too big. I think the view from that side will look a bit cramped and shut in when water is in and making strange stuff to the perspective. The side facing the small window will probably be very shaded and not great for corals that depend on light.

My wish:

Make a pillar that extends above the water surface! So corals can encrust all the way to the waterline without if being a wall. Fairly steep and vertical, not too sloped so it looks like a spike but rather like a giant pole, a large rock slowly eaten thinner by the mighty oceans current...

That's it! The scape need more romanticising! Every boulder needs a story and a background! Being chiseled out by a mighty parrot fish with a purpose or having been dug out of a watery grave by a legion of furious engineer gobies!

Looking great, don't forget the weirdness that water does to the proportions of the stuff inside and depth perception.

It’ll be more “organic”, this is just a rough model

But when it comes to the height of the rock formations I have different thoughts. First, to block so you don’t see another window when looking into the tank. So yes, the wall to the right in the large window is a problem. Somehow we need to figure out a way to get light there, and to get corals growing there.

When it comes to the height at the back, it depends on what we are trying to recreate. When looking through my own UW photos and google for reef pictures many times the reef goes up quite steep up to the reef flat. And the reef flat is flat So one thought I had before leaving work today was that we might need to even out all tops and make them the same height. But we’ll see, we don’t have to do that if it looks too boring.

The plan is to build the outer layer of this structure in dry coral rock. So it wont be straight walls just because the styrofoam is.

 

[Fudsey]

Wouldn't seeing the side glass through water act like a mirror or is that what you are trying to avoid?

 

[biophilia]

Yes, I know. It's still quite steep walls along the back side. The reason I'm having trouble getting away from that is that I would like to be able to see the sand from the side/small window. From there you can now see sand bottom slingering almost all the way to the other side, along the back wall(and you see a swim through!). So making rock work that's sticking out too much from the back side blocks the view from the small window

No, no boat antifouling paint goes into "my" tanks But we have an idea of having a like a walkway behind the top of the rock work at the back. A bit lower, so there will be corals and behind the corals you see the blue wall. But between the corals and the wall, we might be able to have a walkway. And lay out like a ladder in between the the rock works when we need to go out. Perfect, right? Easy to just walk out and clean the blue walls. Or we have to dive.. We'll see

My first idea was to have blue plastic sheets placed there. Don't remember what they are called, but you see them in small tanks at public aquarias like Steinhart or Monterey. Easy to take out and clean. Except that they would have to be really large in this tank. So I don't think that's possible in this case.

Here another one from the top.

I don't want corals or visible rocks agaist the back wall, so I've tried to carve out extra around the areas where the wall is visible. Both at the top of the rock work and in the crevices. I think that's important if you want it look like the blue is water and not a blue wall. So no visible "joints" between rocks/corals and the walls.

The blue (or black) plastic walls used at Steinhart are Kydex. I believe the largest they come is 48"x96"/122cmx244cm, but I may be wrong. They're thin enough that if you overlap the seams between multiple pieces the line is not all that visible....

Another issue is that once the sheets get pretty large they tend to bend, bow and blow around in the current. Especially in tanks with a lot of flow.

They are nice and easy to pull and clean, though!

 

[Sallstrom]

Wouldn't seeing the side glass through water act like a mirror or is that what you are trying to avoid?

Probably. But I don't want to see a mirror on a coral reef
So yes, I'm trying to avoid seeing anything else other then coral reef structurs and a blue wall (that hopefully looks like water). Pipes from the sump will be placed in the corners, not visible from the windows. So will the cirkulation/stream pumps.

I know all the angles will be different when you fill up the tank with water. And we might not be able to compare angles in the model and the new real tank. I hope we can get some tips from the company delivering the windows, they'll visit soon.

Other reasons for the aqua scape model, other then for light modelling and the look, are for calculating the amount of rocks needed and the number of cirkulation/stream pumps. So I would like a digital 3D version of the scape when it's finished, to show the future supplier. I hope we can do that type of 3D version together with the company calculating the light for us.

 

[adddo]

I would have the right side wall slope more down into the tank..(the one with a cave at the bottom)

 

[GBRsouth]

I don't want to see a mirror on a coral reef

You should have been born as a tang then! ;Hilarious

 

[Stigigemla]

I dont know about the glass in the big tank. The model is done in acrylic and it does not totalreflect light in the same angels as glass. But maybe thats why the model is made of acryl?

 

[Lasse]

I dont know about the glass in the big tank. The model is done in acrylic and it does not totalreflect light in the same angels as glass. But maybe thats why the model is made of acryl?

Yes

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sallstrom]

Good meeting today planning for the arrival of the large acrylic panels/windows. The largest will be 9 tons ;Bucktooth They will be installed earliest at the end of March next year

 

[Sallstrom]

I like green numbers on the Triton ICP tests

 

[Pascal89]

Here's the cave! But I think I need to make it larger.

And I looked at the left side, from the large window, for making some kind of cross section cave. That will be quite far from the window, so I'm not sure on how to do it without making a really long boulder sticking out from that short side. And that corner, the one you don't see from the window, needs to be free and open for cirkulation pumps. But I did a compromise just for now

Edit. It's hard trying to keep as much space open as possible to not get the tank to look small and at the same time get lots of space for coral. The good things is if we like to add more substrate for corals we can just throw in a another ton of rocks and build some more

HI David,

Super nice too see the progress. If I see those pictures with Styrofoam I get the feeling you are planning to use a lot of rock. Personally I think you should minimize the amount of rock as much as possible. Not a fan of arches but it adds depth for sure. Think the main thing you want to achieve is very good flow, preferably flow around and behind rock work as well. In my experience any big rock formations are just detritus traps. Stuff you want to avoid or design in a way that spots where you have build up you can easily reach and clean while diving.

I see some nice layering in the design which is great. Also want to have room above the rocks if possible (coral growth accounted for). My thoughts are more in a practical way probably. Think about the space a diver needs, also in a mature tank. Nothing is more irritating than hard or impossible to reach spot especially near the windows. A diver is a big person so you should definitely account for this. Understandably you want to maximize areas to grow coral but I hope you keep the practical stuff in mind. Less is more in my opinion and in the long run the coral will build the reef for you. Probably you thought about all these things already . Another tip might be to envision which coral families you put where and base the design on this as well. All LPS you want to shown need a proper close to the window placement otherwise it is impossible for people to enjoy. This also comes with a big pitfall of divers cleaning windows and touching those LPS.

Many food for thought

Pascal

 

[Pascal89]

This area looks like a detritus trap to me. Cornered area. Flow pumps on the far end. No flow from that corner to push water out. Also difficult area to reach with a large siphoning hose, in a grown tank, to clean the sand or gravel.

Big tanks, big decisions and big consequences

 

[tripdad]

I like to see "fingers" in big tanks. Think of it like a hand with spokes of reef radiating outward. This leaves sand flats between. That's where you can stand to do maintenance and such. I assume you have spoken to Joe Yaiullo, picked his brain?

 

[d.fast]

I would also loose a lot of the rocks. With the current scape it looks more like a cave than a piece of reef located just outside the open ocean. Having walls around the tanks perimeter might make it look "cramped" even though the tank is massive. I would try to make formations that enhances the perception of size. Fewer but still large rock formations with lots of space around. With your great success so far in growing coral the rocks will probably almost double in size so don't make the hardscape too big.

There is a balance of course, too little rock will make the tank look "empty". But in reef tanks it is almost always easier to add than subtract Your previous tank had a "rock wall" look and did look nice. But it was a high and, for its size, shallow tank which did not lend itself to doing any really fun scapes with individual formations. But you have more room here.

 

[Pascal89]

I tried to find the tank dimensions in this topic but couldn't find them David. This topic is huge . Was thinking about the tank this morning.

The smaller window view is raised right? I see you put some rock work underneath there but this is most likely a blind spot for the visitor. Could be a nice spot for stream pumps. I think putting rock there doesn't do anything for showcasing coral or animals so I would definitely leave it out. If the visitor isn't able to see this I think you should minimize structure.

Also saw the reply if you talked to Joe from long Island aquarium. Quite curious if you did. Seen the tank on a video of Melevs Reef. Inspirational tank to say the least. What I really like is that he kept the back wall free from aquascape with a space where you can actually move. This makes a great area to install stream pumps out of sight and create current behind the structure. In the design you showed so far the extra side window makes this design difficult but I think the open space is great for water movement. The trick they used at Long Island aquarium is great for creating depth in the tank. Move the scape off the wall, don't light the back and create a darker shade behind the rock work for maximal depth. In my opinion this type of aquascape uses best of both worlds creating depth and room for water flow. If there is a possibility for you to utilize this idea I wouldnt hesitate if I were you. I don't know the distance from the main window to the backwall or the aquascape but it is a distance. This will not only make coral colonies look tiny but It will also make the colors fade due to the color shift under water. Moving structure off the wall closer to the window is a win-win situation I think.

I think the trouble you have is fencing off the view from main window to the side window of this tank. It actually forces you to use a wall type shape. I have to say that I like the smaller window view as you created an underwater gorge. That is a great view for a visitor, actually it is a whole type of habitat you could base a tank on. It is hard to see in pictures though but if this rock work takes on some coral growth it can become an obstacle while diving. In the picture it looks a bit cramped but I might be wrong.

Just an idea I have would be to leave the front area near the small side window the gorge look you have now but further in the tank move the structure of the wall. Hard to explain this in words . In this way you create a gorge with a shaded area further down the back to the right hand side which creates extra depth also this allows you to hide streamers.

Got plenty of ideas. Did you use an aquascape for design as well? Rule of thirds is a great scraping rule which can make a tank.. I'm not a scaper but i like the practical side of things. As you know I work on a daily basis with tanks, all of them have design flaws. Some of them can really be a pain.

Designing is one thing but practical design is even more challenging. Have another example. I think your windows are really accessible but have you thought of left and right handed divers while cleaning? Probably not.. A left hand corner which is cramped for a diver, with coraline algea growth on a window that gets filthy, can be an absolute pain ;Blackeye for a right handed person. Same goes for aquascaping in a tank this size..reachability.

Upgrading to 400.000 L means that even the most simplistic task in a tank has to be done while diving. Even a stupid mistake like dropping a washer or a bolt.. Always have to think about safety of course but also workability. Can this return pump be shut down to work in a certain area of the tank etc..

This topic gets me going man! Hope you find a way that works for you and your team David

For people who don't know me. I'm not really an active member on this forum. Partly because I'm not allowed. I work in a team of aquarist in a large aquarium. Dealing with stuff like this on a daily basis.

 

[Sallstrom]

This area looks like a detritus trap to me. Cornered area. Flow pumps on the far end. No flow from that corner to push water out. Also difficult area to reach with a large siphoning hose, in a grown tank, to clean the sand or gravel.

Big tanks, big decisions and big consequences

Thanks for all the input Pascal!! I'm at work not having a coffee break, so it'll just be a short answer now.

I've only talked with Joe Y. very shortly. I gave him some drawings etc on this tank But I've followed his work on distans for a long time, reading everything I can find and watching all there is on Youtube about it. So it almost feels like I've been there

The area in the corner above is not the best area of the tank. With the scape on the picture at least you can see the sand from both windows and get some kind of swim through for the fish.
For detritus I have a back up plan which includes vertical pipes (behind the rockwork) going from close to the bottom almost to the top along the back side where the overflow is. So with some air bubbles those will transport "bottom water" up to close to the overflow. Hopefully bringing both bubbles and detritus to the sump and filters.

For the rocks under the small window, I'm dreaming of a cave from the large window to underneath the small window. So you can see through the cave and see corals on the other side. Might be too hard to build though

I might sound stubborn when it comes to the back wall and the colour But one of our keywords(or key sentences) in our vision is that we want to achieve the feeling you look out into the ocean, not into an aqarium. So a black background then you are in deeper waters. That's why we will go for some kind of blue color. We will have a dark, maybe black, back wall in our North Sea tank, which will represent a piece of the ocean floor at about 50m depth.
But yes, moving the corals/rocks away from the back wall is a good idea!

Thanks again for all the input Pascal! Keep it coming! All the dive tips are great. That is something we haven't done much in our tanks before.

 

[Sallstrom]

And thanks to everyone giving input on the aquascape or anything else! I really appreciate it. Sorry for not answering faster!