Tank Trials: Ultra Low Maintenance Tanks | BRStv Investigates

[Karl M]

This should be epic!

The ULM Test I would like to see for a SPS dominant tank

1. Tank size 90 - 120 gal range (Two total setups)
2. Monitoring for each tank, Apex or equivalent
3. No Skimmer on either tank
4. Sump Refugium Biological filtration only. One with fauna and one with Xenia for nutrient exports.
5. Dry live rock in one and Quality Aquacultured live rock in the other.
6. Live sand for both.
7. All CUC and fish have certain jobs assigned to maintain or its the unemployment swim
8. LED T5 Hybrid lighting. LED for Fuge.
9. Dosing TBD. The less mechanical the better.
10. Two zone flow system for redundancy. High turnover
11. battery backup for both.

I know I am missing a few things, but it’s a starting point.

 

[JDP]

Omg

This is probably going to be the largest can of worms R2R has ever had! BIGGER than BB vs SB. This is my new favorite thread.

ULM=;Lurking;Lurking;Lurking just kiddin...algae can be attractive too

I like the 40/40 setup, although you can beat volume so 90/90 maybe?
De-tuned, oversized, high quality equipment= ULM=Efficiency.
Very modest bio load. Equal proportion, one rock, one fish, one shrimp...etc;Meh
ULM is the reward for the hobbiest that can take things very sloooow or one that can set it and forget it;Singing
Predictably and redundancy regarding nutrient export. Example; you can’t have 60 fish in a 40gal because you bought a big bio pellet reactor.

Oh crap....I got go! My skimmer is overflowing ;Yuck;Yuck

 

[Scott.h]

For me, this was pretty much my goal for 2017, primarily from time restraints. And I feel like I accomplished all of it.

With today's knowledge and technology it's not that hard to be over filtered, automated, and low maintenance. I got to a point where I could make certain things easier yet, such as solenoids for ATOs.. so I don't have to fill the buckets, and a drain tube for the skimmer cup. But I also decided against certain things. That the more I relied on computerized technology, the more room for something to fail. How much money do you have in corals, and how detrimental would an electronic failure be? A dosing pump miscalbrated, an apex temp probe going bad, your alk creeping up due to lack of testing. So much room for error in this industry. So much money spent in finicky livestock. If something gets neglected or fails it can easily cause a chain reaction. But if someone can figure out an automatic glass cleaner let me know!

 

[Paul Guy]

Now, this is very interesting for me. I work away from home for 3 weeks at a time, It will be interesting to hear ideas on how to improve my already low maintenance system.

 

[andyg1960]

In my option, a good starting point for a ULM tank would be a 90 gallon glass aquarium, less than 26” tall, rimless, but with a cover to prevent jumpers. Why rimless? You can just grab a cloth and clean the edge rather than dealing with the salt creep on it’s boarders or eurobraces. The tank should be drilled with an overflow system that has at least one backup drain should something get cloggeed. Tank should be on a stand that’s amply tall for viewing and equipment storage, but low enough where you don’t need to pull out a step stool to reach inside. My $0.02 deposited.

I would utilize the very popular Red Sea Reefer series such as the 525XL. This will get you a suitably sized tank with appropriate sump, and the ability to add accesories of your choice

 

[Bradley Keck]

You hit the nail on the head and that is the real debate.

I avoid the crash issue by having back ups.

Having back ups is pricey.

Let's unpack this...the goal isn't the cheapest or the easiest to set up for the less tech saavy.

Some of you are submitting ways to reef on the cheap and some of you are submitting ideas for less complexity for a novice.

These are all diffetent things and we may be confusing the issue.

The goal as stated is the least weekly and monthly maintenance period, at any cost, at any user level.

Perhaps we need more parameters for tbis project.

I do not think suggesting simplistic designs with less equipment is at all confusing the issue. With the goal being ULM, how can the amount of mechanical equipment not be considered? You are correct in that price is not a factor here. ULM is ULM regardless of price. That being said, spending less but achieving the same results shouldn't be seen as a negative and having a more simple design doesn't mean your a novice or less tech savvy. I would argue that there are many experienced reefers who over time do simplify their set-ups after years of trial and error and realizing that some things just were not needed to maintain and grow their reef tanks. Actually, a reefer who is able to have a healthy thriving system with less automation, mechanical equipment, and routine maintenance, likely has a far better understanding of how all the chemistry and biology of a reef tank works

 

[Donovan Joannes]

My daily chores:-

Clean glass even if nothing to be cleaned
Top off my ATO container
Dose traces, iodide, iron, stronti, amino, vitality and energy
Feed the fishes
Feed my bacterias

Weekly chores:-

Clean algae through
Wipe the light fixture glass panel
Fill kalk dripper

Monthly chores:-

Clean wave maker
Dose magnesium/potassium

If i have auto doser, there will be less thing to do . Algae through, bacteria and nutrients recycling (no water changes, no skimmer, no filter socks and cryptic sump) works best for me. I added live oysters in the sump and occasional spawning provides another food source for the whole tank.

Naturally a reef tank is self sustainable if the basic but complete units are in place.

 

[Mandelstam]

The way I see it there's a difference between a reef tank that requires a lot of maintenance but where you use controllers and machines to do them for you and tanks with stable self running natural systems that don't require much external input or maintenance.

If the criteria were just "least amount of maintenance at any cost", I would just hire a daily technician that came and did all the daily, monthly, yearly chores for me. That would mean zero maintenance for my part. If I didn't want any people messing with it I could just hire an engineer and a hacker to build a FULLY automated system spare no expense.

Paul B's 40 year old tank and the way he runs it is interesting when talking about this subject I think. A lot of the maintenance we do tend to be about maintaining a super sterile and clean system. As a matter of fact it would be VERY interesting to see a new tank set up according to Paul's methods as he describes them.

 

[najer]

Loving this!
Brief over view, 300 litre display runs 550 litre water volume, 2 refugiums and a skimmer.
I manually add ro twice a day to a line on the sump and dose manually twice a day.
I had to do water changes a few months back due to an extended power cut.
"System" is 2 years and 2 months old now.
As mentioned a few times above, how long will you allow to call them "systems"?
Also as above, if you don't want to do water changes then you need patience!

... took this about 20 minutes ago, ... because they told me I couldn't do it!

DSC_0003 by sshipuk, on Flickr

 

[Ryanbrs]

Here are the reasons I think a standard reefbowl will be hard to beat in this category

-no ato, and doesn't need one, only shifts .023-.0235/.024 over about 7 days' time, which all corals we can fit in nanos wil tolerate. the topoff is once a week a couple ounces distilled water because the lid fits on the inner diameter of the upper vase area. that causes a physicality that opens doors massively (no salt creep, total gas exchange, evaporation reduced 99% from a normal reef and a few more)

there is a way to change the topoff schedule, without an ato, same salinity shift, out to a record 19 days discovered by reefbowl Keeper Tyler JOhnson on youtube, floored me. the way you do it is stop using air as the primary system driver and switch to a powerhead for major circ, and then you still bubble in 1/18th of the original air stream to run the required degassing/exchange. Evaporation stops, sps growth doesn't, long documented already.

There isn't a design avail that beats a reefbowl for salinity stability.
-by changing water once a week, and feeding only in bulk right before that event, no ion testing of any kind is needed to grow corals for the life of the tank. temp and salinity, only.
-we'd be hard pressed to find a species of lps, and sps, rational for use in any nano reef that isn't already all over the web plated fully inside a vase or jar. the gamut of corals is already doc'd

by keeping the sandbed clean, these systems are documented long and hardy, and repeatable. as a matter of pride we like to turn brand new reefers onto them, smashing the old adages/

I believe a reefbowl is already the most minimal reef ever made and I cannot wait to see how topoff alone is handled as reliably in alternate ways, as a no-fail point in a system.

of course we're limited too, no fish (too small)

but for corals, we produce em in droves.

a reefbowl doesn't care what your parameters are from the salt brand you use, we're salt brand independent, as no dosing is required, across all brands of salt. our weekly schedule accounts for all ion support and documented uptake in the very densest systems per gallon possible. We have a short written list of procedures (most described here above) that even a non-marine keepers can run with success, nano-reef.com has some active right now in the picos forum.

great thread/furthers our science and scope.

the bar to reach:

-no mechanical topoff system, and salinity control out to 7 days before intervention.

-no testing req, life of sys, beyond temp and salinity. Don't think we are working with mid shelf corals, youtube Maritza the Vase reef, see if that doesn't qualify as top shelf as anyone else in this thread has. 1.5 gallons.

-we don't cycle reefbowls, we skip cycle them. Bring home simple frags with your coralline live rock if you must, that's already covered as every water change is equal to the first day you set up the system.

-no dosers ever needed, and all reef invaders are already documented beaten in a reefbowl. whatever invades you, we've covered how to kill it. we use reefbowls as the coach for large tankers on how to turn around their invasions in threads documented out to a couple hundred pages worth. 100% based on reefbowl science. the one gallon tank fixed the 200 gallon tank over and over and over

-doesn't matter what salt, ever. doesn't matter if you switch it 100% each week for the life of the system, we don't care about salt brand or params.

-long lived, decades long in fact.

easy to set full redundancy in place, a reefbowl can cover 5+ days power outage on battery bubbler for a bait tank on a couple d batteries.

if someone can mix up salt water correctly, they can grow sps right now.

While I think this falls outside the scope of what we are attempting here I see what you are getting at and appreciate the well thought out approach. This type of thing challenges the natural thought patterns and helps us all grow

 

[Ryanbrs]

As someone who has purchased a lot of equipment based on recommendations from BRS investigates, my main concern already is I'm not going to like what I hear and have buyers remorse. Example: last year I bought a trigger 34 sump with the idea of having several forms of nutrient reduction - skimmer, refugium, filter socks, and carbon/GFO. Then I hear about the Triton method and no longer having to water changes, which would be great, but now I would need a whole new sump for a larger refugium. Also, I purchased the h80 for my refugium only to then see that it really didn't perform better than a cheaper LED bulb and should have purchased the h380. Dang! One thing I would like to see given consideration with this investigation is all the investment in equipment we already have, and what can be done to make our tanks ULM without having to purchase new equipment or replace existing equipment. So much of the info from BRS investigates has been invaluable to helping guide my build, but now I need to know what can I do with what I have to make it ULM. I have read a lot above about automation, but that too has it's own monitoring and maintenance needs, so I don't know that a bunch of sophisticated automation, dosing, and reactors truly gets you to ULM. A piece of mind that catastrophic fails aren't going to occur, combined with simple design, minimal equipment, reliability, stability, and solid results would get my vote! Also, lets not forget the maintenance required with all the equipment we do use. The more equipment, the more routine work you are going to have to perform and the greater potential for something to go awry. I am a total rookie, but here is what I would say would work. First, the tank size would not be the issue, but how much you stock it would. I would say regardless of tank size, stock it lightly and have less bioload. Second, I like the refugium idea. It's simple, effective, and not mechanical. It can provide you with most if not all your needed nutrient reduction. Third, let's ditch the skimmer. Fourth, instead of power heads which require routine cleaning let's do a closed loop system through a larger more powerful return pump than what you would normally use to achieve 3-5x turnover rate. Multiple return nozzles placed to provide random turbulent flow that can be directed many different ways. I can't see a way to replace an ATO. I'm at a loss there. As far as reactors, controllers, and dosers go, the less the better IMO, but we do have to be able to replenish our systems and achieve stability so, stocking corals like softies that do not use up as much Ca, etc. would help in regards to needing reactors, dosers, and controllers I suppose. Of course, if I went with a system like this, I'd be starting over practically

I feel ya on this one. The nature of continually showing new equipment, methods, and systems is one always seem better than another. However, it's important to remember that there are a 100 ways to maintain a reef tank. Which of these options are best depends on individual desires, space, budget, time constraints, all kinds of things. If what you are doing now is working don't mess with success. However, I think it is perfectly ok to invest time, space and resources to achieve specific goals.

I know a lot of reefers would like us to just share what we think is "the best way" but in end, that doesn't exist or respect all of our different desires. Our goal here is just to share legit experiences with different methods and gear in hopes that it helps individual reefers achieve their goals. The goal of ULM is obiously to produce awesome tanks but reduce the amount of work to achive it. I also think your comments refferencing the system design are legit.

 

[Ryanbrs]

In regarding automation, also keep in mind of the complexity (aka, work) and cost to setup and fine tune the maintenance.

I was just thinking about starting a simplest tank for LPS and zoa, with just a 10~20 gallon with a HOB filter, a circulation pump, and nothing else, bare bottom. And do a 10 gallon water change every week or two and call it a day. Water change may sound like not ULM, but two buckets every week or two is not that much, and in return it uses minimal equipments, and thus minimal maintenance on them. Maybe as the tank mature is needs less frequent water changes too?

Low maintenance can be achieved by comprehensive automation, but can also be simplify setup to bare minimal. I'm not sure which path you're taking, but probably worth to take both.

I have shared this with the team many times when they are trying to put skimmers and ridiculous equipment on something like a 20-gallon nuvo. I mean a 25 % water change is a single bucket of water... That is way easier, cheaper and less of an eyesore than trying to run a tiny non-functional skimmer.

 

[Ryanbrs]

In going ULM, I would also strive for simplicity. Make it as ULM as possible but while also having the fewest components that might crash/break over the long run, too. For instance, a rollermat adds mechanical parts that can fail over the long term compared to filter socks, even though it is lower maintenance. Thus, for each component, consider if the added mechanical complexity to the system is worth it in the long run for what it's reducing in required maintenance. Preferably make the system the fewest number of "things" as possible.

Definitely a big refugium, algae reactor, or algae turf scrubber.

This will be a key consideration. More equipment absolutely means additional maintenance and potential failure points. Every piece of equipment should have a very legit purpose designed to achieve a very specific goal with the ability to identify if you achieved it.

 

[Matthew Frost]

Automation, at any cost, doesn't "remove" tasks it simply puts those tasks in the hands of automation. I think the goal of ULM is to remove the tasks themselves not give them over to automation.

 

[Ryanbrs]

Automation, at any cost, doesn't "remove" tasks it simply puts those tasks in the hands of automation. I think the goal of ULM is to remove the tasks themselves not give them over to automation.

I have to agree. The goal here is first and foremost identify if we are performing potentially unnecessary tasks

For example, no to minimal water changes has the potential to be a lower maintenance solution than automated water changes. Automated water changes could be a better solution on other fronts but there is a significant investment and space requirement for most installs and of course more maintenance maintaining equipment and mixing salt. The best solutions minimize this of course

I certainly hope the coolest component of this thread/build will be the laser focus on a very specific goal of reducing the work involved on owning a tank and not chasing the non-existent best for everyone's needs goal : )

 

[Mandelstam]

I have to say I'm really impressed and amazed on how much time and effort BRS puts into these things. Hats off to you guys. Most businesses would maybe do the effort of doing in depth product reviews (on their products of course) but you take it a few steps further. And you don't have a problem with giving advice or showing results that would potentially mean less sales for you.

You have my respect!

 

[neoGeorge]

Would love to see an AIO tank like the JBJ Nanocube 28g included in this series! I've had mine for about a year, and although it'd doing great, there's always more to learn about making it more efficient. Budget kept me from buying an off the shelf controller, so I made a very basic controller using Arduino: http://www.instructables.com/id/Aquarium-Outlet-Controller-With-Time-Temp-Events/

 

[Rich Hanks]

Let's be real here and work on the facts. A 40 breeder is a great tank to start but we all know that it always leads to something bigger because it's mandatory to stabilize with more volume. Those that have really nice small tanks are typically experts in this hobby. I would think a minimum would be a tank with a footprint of 48" x 18", preferably 24" deep. This is going to sit on a stand that will accommodate all the equipment starting with a sump. There's no doubt to make this work you're going to need equipment, it can't be ULM and ultra cheap, those two are oxy-morons. To the general public reef tanks are nothing if you don't have cool fish moving around. Everyone wants the Nemo gang or anything close so size is going to be important there also. Only us junkies are going to be pointing out the acro's and shrooms over the clown pairs. My opinion on automation is exactly what a few post says, it just puts the work on someone one else. It's also WAY overpriced.

Regardless of what you do, this hobby is going to be expensive! Without spending some good amount of money your never going to get this to work. The newer you are, the costlier this is. It's even more costly when you start off wrong to save a buck.

 

[Unregistered User]

Welcome to BRStv Investigates - Tank Trials, a new series where we take everything we know about reefing, develop some methods and theories and put them to the test on real reef tanks!

To get this new series started we will be striving to create the ultimate Ultra Low Maintenance (ULM) tank setup for three tank types; Softies & Polyps; LPS; and SPS dominant!

What's even better about this series is that YOU, the Reefing Community, will drive the conversation as well have direct input in how we approach the Tank Trials series! Throughout this series we will be relying on the Reef2Reef and YouTube community to give your input on what qualifies as a ULM from everything like ULM sump design, ULM ATO and much more!

So, get ready to join the next evolution of BRStv with BRStv Investigates: Tank Trials!


Ep-1: Tank Trials: Ultra Low Maintenance Tanks Ep-1 | BRStv Investigates

Ep-2: Up coming...

Following. I do wish BRS employees were as helpful as forum members. I assume these interesting segments are tied into the store I keep giving my money to.

 

[Matthew Frost]

Another thought, I know the staff at BRS is at least to some degree motivated to move products, I understand and support that. However, their is a large contingent in this hobby that doesn't have a "throw dollars at it" budget or outlook towards ULM tank strategies. I think their should be at least some aspect of cost/benefit analysis and long term ROI vs initial cost and ongoing costs of ULM strategies.