Testing Reef Lights: What would you like to see?

isoseismic · Feb 11, 2017

I'd like to see a test for those who don't as yet own a PAR meter. Does the old "watts per gallon" rule hold ANY truth? If so, for what kind of current lighting? If not, is there a better way to accurately guesstimate how much lighting you'll need on a tank based on the size and dimensions of the tank, the contents of the tank (fowler, softies, lps, sps), and type of lighting?

Joeganja · Feb 11, 2017

What light spectrum bring out certain colors in corals. Like if green or red leds in my hydra 26 will affect the coloration of certain corals. What is the UV spectrum for. Is the lower kelvin better for corals than a more bluish higher kelvin? We have all these lights with different leds and colors and spectrums but we are so focused on getting par that most don't understand what each spectrum does. We are so focused on what looks good to us. We want corals to pop but don't take the fact maybe they need more than that.

misoldier06 · Feb 11, 2017

I would like to see par values for a 48" 6 bulb ATI dimmable fixture with t5 only bulbs and then t5/e5 bulbs, and then all e5 bulbs. Please and thank you.

jwshiver · Feb 11, 2017

Is there a performance difference in PAR output between regular T5 ballast vs T5 dimmable ballast?

tpack17 · Feb 11, 2017

You still have a split community on led's. They work for some and not for others.Why? Discover why and that may be really useful. If the Phillips coral care is successful it may hold the key. We already know that you needmore coverage with led's. More power probably isn't the issue. It also is interesting that even cheap black boxes work in certain instances vs expensive led's. I will say this, answers are needed as more people that are successful with led's the more people I believe will be in hobby and stay.. Thanks.

chaoha · Feb 11, 2017

I would like to see lighting schedules and intensity of led lights.
I have 2 Kessil A 360we over a 75 mixed reef. When I got the lights I wrote to Kessil and they gave me a schedule and intensity recommendation that they used on an in house tank. I found it to intense an burned some corals. I know some people who run them at a max of 40% white. So what is the most successful settings?

jsker · Feb 11, 2017

Why we need spectrum and what each spectrum is for.

James72 · Feb 11, 2017

Led do not use reflectors like T5 or MH. I have always seen led colour up sps well from top view. Would like to see led having the ability to spread the light and colour up the side body of the sps.

Tautog · Feb 11, 2017

I have Orbit Current LEDs(4- 36"), and have been told I could achieve better growth with the addition of T-5's, even just a two bulb retro-fit. Others say not to waste the money. I'm getting good growth, but how much better? And cost effective? I run my lights 12 hours, with a 4 hour moonlight period, total 16 hours.
My calcium consumption is very small. Over 50 corals, mostly frags. 180 system.

Ryanbrs · Feb 11, 2017

DBR_Reef said:
+1 on the Chinese black box test- I know you don't sell them, but if the expensive lights really can't beat them for growth, I think your customers would appreciate you informing them. It is that kind of honesty in your business that won me as a customer.

This would certainly be interesting and valuable. A lot of reefers have shared that desire in this thread as well as in the YouTube comments. I think everyone would like to find a way to light reef tanks for less than the ~$1,000(s) it costs now. I think the general perception might be that we wouldn't want to test something like this because it is so low cost and we don't sell it but in reality, lighting is the most expensive critical component of reefing and a barrier of entry to many. Providing options where that is no longer a barrier is good for everyone involved and will certainly increase the number of reefers out there. This is likely even good for the higher end lighting companies because it expands the market base and eventually the number of intermediate to advanced reefers who are looking to invest in higher quality feature rich options.

That said I think this opens a whole new type of testing that hasn't been brought up previously. Mainly what we have been discussing is performance testing which is the ability to produce an awesome looking and thriving reef tank. With imported products only available through informal and often unaccountable sales channels, we need to take a more critical look at safety and quality or longevity testing. This is just a guess at this point, but I'd wager the black boxes put out acceptable PAR and spectrum for many tanks, almost certainly in multiples. However, when an item is only sold through eBay or similar channels, it's been my experience that they were designed in and for countries where the standards of safety and quality are quite different than they are here in the US. Having experience with imported pumps sold through similar channels, I know highly unacceptable failure rates and even fire hazards are a very legit issue. While we are excited to perform and share performance testing, safety testing and quality or longevity testing are likely outside of the scope of things we can properly address in this format. To be fair, we don't perform that type of testing on the brands we sell, but there is a different expectation out of the respected industry's leaders with 10-20 year track records of producing safe products. Primarily because there is a significant legal liability and legal incentive to do so, a moral imperative, and the innate desire to protect their brand image and company value. Many of these things just don't exist with a foreign product sold on eBay.

Maybe the R2R community can share how you would like to see the safety and quality addressed in situations like the black box. Even when it comes with a stern safety disclaimer, it seems irresponsible to present performance testing on a product knowing that can inherently be a vote of confidence which could lead to many reefers installing unsafe or poorly made products in their homes and on their tanks. Open and honest I think behaving responsibly inherently means we should only performance test products we believe represent value to the reefing industry and are safe for their tanks and families. So I am asking all of you, knowing the reefing community would like to see it do you think it is responsible to review and essentially promote products which should have by their nature of introduction and method of sales the assumption of lower quality and safety standards?

Ryanbrs · Feb 11, 2017

tjnorthdakota said:
I know you dont sell them but I'd really like to see pacific sun hybrids and t5's tested, maybe add them to your lineup, the hybrids led/t5's come at a much better pricepoint than the ati's or geisemann's. Another option in t5 tubes too.

We put a PacSun Diuna T5 on a tank a few weeks ago and next week a T5/LED hybrid Pandora Hyperion on our Operations Directors tank. I would expect to share some feedback in the future : )

Nolan Shinn said:
I'd like to see some user interface tests on the various LED systems. Maybe some ease of setup vs customisability vs fit and finish of the UX/UI.

Other than that, anything other than just anecdotal evidence about the different lights. There are a million different LED options and twice as many stories from people who swear by X Brand because they "... got fantastic results with them..." or they hate Y Brand because "I had a bulb burn out after a week". A side by side comparison would be awesome.

I think we will get the full UX experience incorporated into the video results. I also hope by the end of this, with help of the community, we will identify what it really is that makes one light source better another and how each reefer can select the right one for their needs and budget. More or less getting legit value for what we are paying for rather than marketing bullets.

Lousybreed said:
First off I would like to say thank you to BRS for wanting to do this. I know you are going to have to balance the interests of the brands you sell and your findings but here would be my suggestion. I think there are two topics that I would be interested in. One is a comparison of lighting for chaeto growth. I would ask that you do include HPS lighting for this. My other request has been asked already. People are moving back to MH and T5 lighting because of results. I personally went back to MH and I am planning on supplementing with DIY leds. But I don't know the best ratio of spectrums for my LED supplementation. Is it even advantageous? Does it wash out the colors of the MH? I think more data on pure LED systems vs hybrids is needed. I feel LED is popular partly because it's sexy (packaging, programming, energy consumption, ect), convenient, and cutting edge. But is it really the best option?

We have a test running right now which is testing the nutrient reduction capabilities of Cheato under 4 different light sources ranging from $5 to $400. I think it's obvious the higher par $400 option will outperform the rest because it has the capability of providing more photosynthetic energy. The question is how much better and what do you get in terms of "nutrient reduction" results at each price point and implementation.

As relates to a Halide/LED Hybrid. One of the team members here recently swapped out to a Reef brite Hybrid with a 250k radium bulb and the XHO led supplements and the tank looks spectacular. So much that we took it off and looked at putting three on the BRS160. As compared to our Kessil AP700/ T5 hybrid solution the Reef Brite hybrid had considerably better shimmer, contrast, and depth. It also had arguably better color/Pop. However, the PAR coverage was not as even, lacked real dimming options and likely will have some heat issues with three halides. Ultimately didn't seem worth ripping out our old solution even though it was close.

sundog101 said:
I'd like to see how spread out fixtures (reefbreeders or orphek) compare against more condensed fixtures (kessils or radions). Is the par output more even? Are there less hotspots? Color blending? Consistent or uneven spectrum?

We installed an Orphek on the clown harem tank just yesterday. So far a lot of us had some pretty positive things to say. I can say with almost complete confidence you are going to see a full review in the future.

DBR_Reef · Feb 11, 2017

Ryanbrs said:
This would certainly be interesting and valuable. A lot of reefers have shared that desire in this thread as well as in the YouTube comments. I think everyone would like to find a way to light reef tanks for less than the ~$1,000(s) it costs now. I think the general perception might be that we wouldn't want to test something like this because it is so low cost and we don't sell it but in reality, lighting is the most expensive critical component of reefing and a barrier of entry to many. Providing options where that is no longer a barrier is good for everyone involved and will certainly increase the number of reefers out there. This is likely even good for the higher end lighting companies because it expands the market base and eventually the number of intermediate to advanced reefers who are looking to invest in higher quality feature rich options.

That said I think this opens a whole new type of testing that hasn't been brought up previously. Mainly what we have been discussing is performance testing which is the ability to produce an awesome looking and thriving reef tank. With imported products only available through informal and often unaccountable sales channels, we need to take a more critical look at safety and quality or longevity testing. This is just a guess at this point, but I'd wager the black boxes put out acceptable PAR and spectrum for many tanks, almost certainly in multiples. However, when an item is only sold through eBay or similar channels, it's been my experience that they were designed in and for countries where the standards of safety and quality are quite different than they are here in the US. Having experience with imported pumps sold through similar channels, I know highly unacceptable failure rates and even fire hazards are a very legit issue. While we are excited to perform and share performance testing, safety testing and quality or longevity testing are likely outside of the scope of things we can properly address in this format. To be fair, we don't perform that type of testing on the brands we sell, but there is a different expectation out of the respected industry's leaders with 10-20 year track records of producing safe products. Primarily because there is a significant legal liability and legal incentive to do so, a moral imperative, and the innate desire to protect their brand image and company value. Many of these things just don't exist with a foreign product sold on eBay.

Maybe the R2R community can share how you would like to see the safety and quality addressed in situations like the black box. Even when it comes with a stern safety disclaimer, it seems irresponsible to present performance testing on a product knowing that can inherently be a vote of confidence which could lead to many reefers installing unsafe or poorly made products in their homes and on their tanks. Open and honest I think behaving responsibly inherently means we should only performance test products we believe represent value to the reefing industry and are safe for their tanks and families. So I am asking all of you, knowing the reefing community would like to see it do you think it is responsible to review and essentially promote products which should have by their nature of introduction and method of sales the assumption of lower quality and safety standards?

Thank you for taking the time to respond! I would think a simple safety and longevity disclaimer would suffice ie do your research, as there is no company to hold accountable. Emphasizing the lack of consumer support is key.

In regards to black boxes in particular, I have never owned a black box myself, but I have heard of very few safety failures and those that modify them seem to think the components and construction are acceptable. Much more common with black boxes seems to be a failure of components in a non destructive way (drivers or individual LEDs).

I tend to use a pretty even mix of cheap Chinese and high end components in my systems, and although I have had many failures, the only ones that have affected safety were heaters leaking, and a Vortech driver that caught fire (well, it melted, with lots of smoke, and it was pretty old). I seem to have bad luck with good equipment, and good luck with bad equipment though

BTW, has BRStv ever done a basic reef safety video? I.E. drip loops, GFI outlets, grounding probes, wire management, salt creep, DC vs. AC equipment, stand maintenance, heater placement (fully submerged), palytoxin, etc.

scardall · Feb 11, 2017

I want to know what each spectrum/Kelvin (Levels of each) /(Growth/color of coral) does for each type of coral ( Acropora/Millipora etc.) Next Which lights get the closest. 1) non-adjustable 2) adjustable spectrum/temp

isoseismic · Feb 11, 2017

Ryanbrs said:
This would certainly be interesting and valuable. A lot of reefers have shared that desire in this thread as well as in the YouTube comments. I think everyone would like to find a way to light reef tanks for less than the ~$1,000(s) it costs now. I think the general perception might be that we wouldn't want to test something like this because it is so low cost and we don't sell it but in reality, lighting is the most expensive critical component of reefing and a barrier of entry to many. Providing options where that is no longer a barrier is good for everyone involved and will certainly increase the number of reefers out there. This is likely even good for the higher end lighting companies because it expands the market base and eventually the number of intermediate to advanced reefers who are looking to invest in higher quality feature rich options.

That said I think this opens a whole new type of testing that hasn't been brought up previously. Mainly what we have been discussing is performance testing which is the ability to produce an awesome looking and thriving reef tank. With imported products only available through informal and often unaccountable sales channels, we need to take a more critical look at safety and quality or longevity testing. This is just a guess at this point, but I'd wager the black boxes put out acceptable PAR and spectrum for many tanks, almost certainly in multiples. However, when an item is only sold through eBay or similar channels, it's been my experience that they were designed in and for countries where the standards of safety and quality are quite different than they are here in the US. Having experience with imported pumps sold through similar channels, I know highly unacceptable failure rates and even fire hazards are a very legit issue. While we are excited to perform and share performance testing, safety testing and quality or longevity testing are likely outside of the scope of things we can properly address in this format. To be fair, we don't perform that type of testing on the brands we sell, but there is a different expectation out of the respected industry's leaders with 10-20 year track records of producing safe products. Primarily because there is a significant legal liability and legal incentive to do so, a moral imperative, and the innate desire to protect their brand image and company value. Many of these things just don't exist with a foreign product sold on eBay.

Maybe the R2R community can share how you would like to see the safety and quality addressed in situations like the black box. Even when it comes with a stern safety disclaimer, it seems irresponsible to present performance testing on a product knowing that can inherently be a vote of confidence which could lead to many reefers installing unsafe or poorly made products in their homes and on their tanks. Open and honest I think behaving responsibly inherently means we should only performance test products we believe represent value to the reefing industry and are safe for their tanks and families. So I am asking all of you, knowing the reefing community would like to see it do you think it is responsible to review and essentially promote products which should have by their nature of introduction and method of sales the assumption of lower quality and safety standards?

This is a really tough issue, and one I hadn't thought of. I'm an OR nurse and have seen firsthand what happens when "things go wrong." I don't have an answer to this issue, but I can understand why BRS might decide not to pursue testing lights that could turn out to be a hazard.

Reefcowboy · Feb 11, 2017

Would love to see differences in "useable light" by corals from each type of lighting. We all hear a photon is a photon, but coverage aside, why would a single coral in the middle of a tank directly under the light source would react differently in growth and color between a MH/T5/LED

Brian W · Feb 11, 2017

I would like to see tested:

Chinese black box leds
AI Prime
ATI t5 bulbs under different spectrum
Thanks

Daniel@R2R · Feb 11, 2017

I'm really excited about this series! My suggestion is that since you guys are examining each light in the specific ways that you outline, why not give each light a "report card" of sorts with a specific "grade" (to keep it fun, I'd suggest using a college scoring system where each light comes out of each assessment category with a grade that ultimately converts to the light's specific "GPA"). Maybe even have a main set of grade sets (core grades) and then an "extra curricular" set for extra features, bells and whistles, mount options, etc.

Also, definitely include whether a light is controllable and which controllers can be used to manipulate it as well as what modules/expansion boards (or other pieces) are needed to do that.

Chun Wai · Feb 12, 2017

I'm curious whether it's possible to have a sunlit tank as a control for the testing of all other types of aquarium lights. Quite excited to learn more from your findings!

bluebulls49 · Feb 12, 2017

Sb reef lights

kaushik sarkar · Feb 12, 2017

Hi Ryan!

A big THANK YOU for taking a humongous trouble to help us to understand and learn about the most challenging task of all in a reef tank!
Its for people like you, Reef Aquarium hobby is thriving and becoming less tedious and more fun.

I would like to see underwater PAR test of LED-T5 lighting and also if possible what could be best combo of T5 bulbs to go with LEDs.
In the near future I believe that LED-T5 combo will be become a dominant choice due its PAR/Light Spread/Low Cost/Control-ability. But there is a major hurdle which 'T5 bulb to choose to get best in growth and coloring'. Is it possible to get combos which can be translated into Kelvin like of MH 12500K/14500K and so on.

Many thanks and all the best to you and Team BRS!

Regards,

Kaushik