The ultimate Mangrove thread!!

[thepotoo]

Maybe dumb question but do mangroves work like chaeto? Helps with pods and removes nitrates?

No, they don't grow fast enough to remove nutrients. Unless you have tons of them, you won't notice anything from adding them.

But they are awesome and worth having in their own right -- a tree that lives in salt water??

 

[BPSabelhaus]

How did you transition your guppies to brackish/saltwater?

The initial ones were transitioned in tank, very slowly over the course of several water changes (took two months)

Experience has now shown that to be very, very overkill. Juvenile fish just don’t care. I move them from salt to fresh and vice versa, literally just net and dump. Older fish (showing colors other than black) I’ll put in a small tank and add a cup of the opposite water every 15-30 min (I’m not precise) until full (2 gal tank, starting half full) then I let them have the tank to themselves for a day, mostly just to destress from being netted. Water temp and fish stress are larger factors in my experience. Endlers are very hardy. Fancy guppies I’d be more cautious with as they’re not as hardy as Endlers / wild type guppies.

Edit: Should probably add that the tank has been at this salinity (1.018-1.022) for over a year. On my third generation of fish being born in those conditions, so they’re happily breeding.

 

[jaganshi066]

The initial ones were transitioned in tank, very slowly over the course of several water changes (took two months)

Experience has now shown that to be very, very overkill. Juvenile fish just don’t care. I move them from salt to fresh and vice versa, literally just net and dump. Older fish (showing colors other than black) I’ll put in a small tank and add a cup of the opposite water every 15-30 min (I’m not precise) until full (2 gal tank, starting half full) then I let them have the tank to themselves for a day, mostly just to destress from being netted. Water temp and fish stress are larger factors in my experience. Endlers are very hardy. Fancy guppies I’d be more cautious with as they’re not as hardy as Endlers / wild type guppies.

Edit: Should probably add that the tank has been at this salinity (1.018-1.022) for over a year. On my third generation of fish being born in those conditions, so they’re happily breeding.

Do other fish eat their fry cause I know guppies breed often

 

[BPSabelhaus]

Do other fish eat their fry cause I know guppies breed often

My tank and pond are “single” species (Endler / Guppy) and Endlers don’t tend to eat their young. I’d imagine the fry would be happily gobbled up by other fish etc… When I had ghost shrimp in there, they’d occasionally snag a weak fry, but my hermit crabs don’t care.

 

[jaganshi066]

My tank and pond are “single” species (Endler / Guppy) and Endlers don’t tend to eat their young. I’d imagine the fry would be happily gobbled up by other fish etc… When I had ghost shrimp in there, they’d occasionally snag a weak fry, but my hermit crabs don’t care.

Do you think any species of guppies will work?

 

[BPSabelhaus]

Do you think any species of guppies will work?

Should be fine.

I added 3 female guppies to my tank a couple weeks ago just to see what hybrids I get. I put them straight into a Q tank at 1.005 then just did daily W/C’s of about 25% and just topped off with aquarium water. I kept them in there for about 10 days with a male I wanted to breed, but could have moved them in sooner.

If dealing with breeding paired fancy schmancy $$$ guppies, I’d be more cautious. But for LFS guppies a basic acclimation should suffice. Technically they still do just fine and keep breeding at 150% ocean salinity not that I’ve tried that yet as there’s really no reason/benefit I can think of.

The important part is healthy, strong stock. Feeders might be a best bet as they’re cheap and often have great patterns/coloring.

 

[BPSabelhaus]

Should have added to the last post (is there an edit button I’m missing?)

I intended my callousness of literally “net and dump” young fry to be a case of “don’t overthink it” You can take as long as you feel comfortable doing it, but you likely won’t be too fast in doing so.

 

[BPSabelhaus]

Well, unfortunately I killed my mangrove. I was unprepared for its early arrival which coincided with her dealing with Covid (thankfully she was an early, healthcare, vaccination so she just got sick ) anyway. Since I now had everything setup and verified I had done everything wrong with the first one, I reordered 5 hoping to end up with 2-3 at the end.

Well, the new ones are much healthier looking than the first one. Actively growing roots etc…

They sent 7 and 3 propagule lol. So now I have much healthier, and many more trees. Woe is me.

 

[Greatreefer]

Can mangrove trees live in freshwater and then slowly acclimate to saltwater?

 

[pgravis]

Can mangrove trees live in freshwater and then slowly acclimate to saltwater?

Yeah. Take it slow, they don’t like drastic changes. Many are grown in freshwater initially as they reportedly grow faster, then people slowly transition them over. I haven’t taken any from fresh to salt, I have gone the other way and they are doing well. I have seen some posts/websites that go into detail on the specifics of acclimating them.

 

[Greatreefer]

Yeah. Take it slow, they don’t like drastic changes. Many are grown in freshwater initially as they reportedly grow faster, then people slowly transition them over. I haven’t taken any from fresh to salt, I have gone the other way and they are doing well. I have seen some posts/websites that go into detail on the specifics of acclimating them

Could you post a picture of your mangroves?
I'd love to see your setup.

 

[Greatreefer]

Yeah. Take it slow, they don’t like drastic changes. Many are grown in freshwater initially as they reportedly grow faster, then people slowly transition them over. I haven’t taken any from fresh to salt, I have gone the other way and they are doing well. I have seen some posts/websites that go into detail on the specifics of acclimating them.

Oh, while they are in FW do they need any type of fertilizer?

 

[pgravis]

Could you post a picture of your mangroves?
I'd love to see your setup.

I have some old photos posted above. Nothing new. In the midst of a rebuild so they are in the sump of a frag tank for now. I’ll post more once I get things rebuilt.
mad far as fertilizer, I’m sure they would appreciate some iron and I’m guessing magnesium, but any good substrate would probably also suffice.

 

[Greatreefer]

I have some old photos posted above. Nothing new. In the midst of a rebuild so they are in the sump of a frag tank for now. I’ll post more once I get things rebuilt.
mad far as fertilizer, I’m sure they would appreciate some iron and I’m guessing magnesium, but any good substrate would probably also suffice.

Would it be advisable to start the newly acquired trees in freshwater then transition them over to saltwater or should I just start them in saltwater?

 

[thepotoo]

Oh, while they are in FW do they need any type of fertilizer?

Yes. Macros and micros, especially iron. See the PDF linked earlier in this thread, it's a very comprehensive guide.

Would it be advisable to start the newly acquired trees in freshwater then transition them over to saltwater or should I just start them in saltwater?

I have not seen anyone transition mangroves from fresh to salt successfully. I have not tried it myself. In the Book of Coral Propagation, Anthony Calfo says not to transition them (either direction), but I would guess that if you did it slowly enough (over weeks at least, probably months), it would be OK. And higher in this thread someone claims to have transitioned them, so Calfo's book may be showing its age.

Still, easier to just start them in salt to begin with, I would think.

 

[pgravis]

I would agree that it is far better to get ones started in Salt if that is where you will
Keep them. Set yourself up for success.

 

[Greatreefer]

I would agree that it is far better to get ones started in Salt if that is where you will
Keep them. Set yourself up for success.

any recommendations where I can purchase saltwater acclimated mangroves?

 

[thepotoo]

any recommendations where I can purchase saltwater acclimated mangroves?

Any unsprouted (or just starting to sprout) propagules you get from the usual online sources will work because they are not acclimated to either fresh or salt water.

 

[rhizotron]

I got a couple cool new things recently from online sellers and set them up in this 10G tank...

Saltmarsh Cordgrass (Spartina alternifolia) is the most prevalent plant in East Coast US coastal saltmarshes. I'm not 100% sure this will work out right in an aquarium because apparently it has a winter dormancy cycle, but here in the middle of the autumn these two plants appear to be establishing well with new growth...

This is the best way to plant Black Mangrove (Avicennia germinans) propagules: just lay them on their sides on the wet substrate and they will start to grow...

If they have already started to sprout with the little root peduncle thing (not sure of correct botanical term for that) you can bury that part in the substrate and roots will develop there.

Black Mangrove can grow in full-strength seawater, but I intend to use these in a brackish setup. Saltmarsh Cordgrass grows in brackish estuary marshes with influxes of seawater and freshwater.

Pots contain a lens of estuary mud mixed with black garden topsoil sandwiched between top & bottom layers of aragonite sand.

I'll post more updates if/when I get results from these plants. Black Mangrove is pretty easy to grow like this, but the Saltmarsh Cordgrass is a new experiment for me.

 

[Greatreefer]

Any unsprouted (or just starting to sprout) propagules you get from the usual online sources will work because they are not acclimated to either fresh or salt water.

So your saying that going with unsprouted propagules are better because they havent acclimated to a particular water source?
Would it be advisable to place them directly into the substrate or can I suspend them?
last time I had a mangrove, I propped it up on a pole and secured the mangrove to the pole with growing tape.
Thoughts?