Think twice before you go big

southerntnreefer

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RIght size for a person is totally a thing. I had a 90, i dreamed of much more like we all do. I made room in the basement. built a stand for the end game tank ( 220 to 240) knew it was the only place i could put it in the basement man cave due to house design. Spent a ton of money getting it sorted, upgraded a year later to the 220. lost a ton of livestock in QT, and got a nice tank going. Then as time went on we learned that we were not downstairs as much as we thought we would be. ive now sold that off, and finishing up a 72 build that is more my size and right back where the 90 was. Sometimes bigger just isnt better.
 

HildebrandRarity

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I've been in this hobby and reading about reefkeeping for many years. I repeatedly see threads on "what would you do if you could start over?" A common answer is "I would set up a larger system." I want to push back on that.

There is so much pressure to go big and so many reasons why big tanks make sense. Many people's progressions in the hobby look like mine. I started with 10g freshwater, then 20g, then 38g reef, then 75g reef, and now planning a 240g reef (this is all over more than 25 years, so I'm not talking about impulsive upgrading behavior). Each time I wanted more stability, more aquascaping possibilities, more stocking options, and more to see. So now I'm about 18 months into *planning* a large system (see my build thread) and I'm having some regrets before I've even put any water in the tank. With larger tanks, everything gets more expensive, and I mean really expensive. Larger tank, more rock, more sand, bigger light fixture with more lights, larger wavemakers, bigger sump, bigger return pumps, more salt, more electricity, more water.

But I want to share a cautionary tale about how my dream reef tank, original budget of around $15K, is now going to cost more than a sports car. I am doing a fish room with an in-wall display, so I had to open the walls. The architect said the wall was not load-bearing -- good news! Then two weeks into construction they went "oops, we were wrong, it's holding up two levels of the house." No problem, add $2500 for some new supports added out wide to replace the one we removed for where the display tank sits. Should be fine, but let's have a structural engineer review just in case. That will only cost $500 or so. Then, as we're digging a trench in the slab for a floor drain (an absolute requirement), we got another nasty surprise. The basement slabs in my neighborhood (homes are all about 100 years old) are about 3" to 6" thick instead of 12" to 18". So we need to tear up half the basement slab, excavate, and pour new concrete footings for the tank and for the vertical beams supporting the house. Another $10K. I suppose we might have wanted a thicker slab anyway, but the house would have had at least another 50 years before it was a problem.

So I'm about to approve that change order to the construction contract, but seriously thought about whether I could sell the custom tank that's been sitting in the garage and downsize to something that won't break my house. Too late, I guess, since we already moved the supports and I've already accumulated all the equipment that goes with this particular tank. Fortunately I can absorb these costs and still pay for my kids' college and our retirement, maybe have a skip a couple of vacations. But the lesson learned (which I hope to share) is that if you are a normal person who has not been lucky to have investments go well and save for 20+ years, then try to make the most of that 20 gallon, or 55 gallon or whatever tank or even a nano, and take it as a challenge on how to create something beautiful in a small box and how to keep it stable. We need to celebrate nanos and "regular" size tanks and reef-keepers who maintain them and not feel or create pressure to upgrade. Yes, we'll always drool over the ocean-sized tanks online with armies of tangs swimming busily and peacefully over an expanse of mature coral reefs, but think twice before you go big.
I have 75 Gallon, I cant think of going bigger your right that's a big expense and also takes alot of time and effort to maintain, cheers to anyone who has large tanks and having a beautiful piece of the ocean in their home
 

HildebrandRarity

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There is such a thing as 'right size'.

I own my dream tank. It's 60" x 30" x 18", about 140 gallons. Low and fat, easy to maintain, no need to work from a ladder, or from my knees... 'sump room' is just a closet, but it's functional. Everything that can be automated... is.

I look at these huge tanks, and just wonder what cleaning is like. What, you gotta wear a scuba tank? You go right ahead... I don't want to get my sleeves wet... much less my beard.

FulTank.jpg
Spectacular set up!
 

Devaji

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dang sounds like my home reno project. it all started with just leveling the floors and turned into a 200K full gut .

enjoyment is not dependent on tank size. I have a little nano I enjoy setting up a what I would call a med to large tank RS 650P I am gonna enjoy that to. :) I agree to gotta enjoy what you have make the best out of it. I have seen some picos that I am like wow I want one to.

all that said i do desire a simple large FOWLR in the 300+ gallon range if you are ok with fish only I think large tanks can be done pretty cheep.
as long as you have good nutrient export your good to go.
but yes a big boy reef with all the bells your gonna drop $$$$
 

Doctorgori

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The OP is so dead on, and touched on the exact point of how this thing can get outta hand. I’ve personally spent zillions, had I invested in Microsoft back then ....

anyway, my only add on is there is some middle ground & tradeoff here for the beginning hobbyist. I can only speculate a “ideal” size for the begginer but its probably more than 10g but less than 100.
 

southerntnreefer

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The OP is so dead on, and touched on the exact point of how this thing can get outta hand. I’ve personally spent zillions, had I invested in Microsoft back then ....

anyway, my only add on is there is some middle ground & tradeoff here for the beginning hobbyist. I can only speculate a “ideal” size for the begginer but its probably more than 10g but less than 100.
Personally i found 4 foot to work for me even many years in now. Started in a 30 hex, went to a 90, added a 32, then added a 125. Upgraded the 125 to 220, sold the 220, bought a 72 to replace 90, and kept the 32. the 220 was fun, but never for a reef tank. Im waiting for next months power bill to see how much a month that sucker was costing me. 220 with 125 sump. 1100 watts of heat. 3 300 watt black boxes, and thats not counting all the other equipment. My water bill went down from not having to make a ton of RODI to feed that beast. Sometimes i think we all dream of bigger, without factoring in the average monthly cost before livestock, potential corals etc. My 220 was originally a puffer tank, that went south due to aggression i believe, then just became fish only as i knew i could never ever afford to fill it with coral.

Sold it all off for about what i paid give or take a few things, and funded my new build from selling off the giant hoard of live rock from it.
 

fcmatt

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I never cared for being a big tank owner simply due to the cost. I want the hobby to be relatively stress free and once so much money becomes involved it automatically becomes some type of worry or stress. The money amounts being tossed around you could build a small building/greenhouse type thing in your backyard to house the tank for goodness sakes. Probably end up being cheaper in some cases. Might as well cover a pool type tank and even dive in it when you reach the 100k mark. :-/
 

MnFish1

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Interesting post - I guess I think the more pressure is 'buy more equipment' rather than get a bigger tank. At least thats how I read most of the posts here. I would do what I wanted to do - There are many disadvantages to a lets say 300 gallon tank. Moving, costs or maintenence, when you sell your house, etc
 

BZOFIQ

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Well, I'm in the same boat as the OP but I think it's unfair to generalize that everyone will need to add 10-20K to their large build cost. Most people will buy 180-300 gallon tank, carry it into the house, set it up, and call it a day. You want to have an in-wall build in an area that requires re-building of part of the house and a fish room that isn't even on the blue print? - That's on a whole different level.

I'm in the process of getting a ~270 gallon tank which originally was supposed to go into kitchen/living area. I said to my wife, let's remodel the kitchen before we install the tank because once the tank is in we won't be able to do construction around it. So we spend a certain amount of money on the kitchen and in the end decided against putting it in that location in fear of danger if there ever was a spectacular leak or flood.

So back to the drawing board we went and decided to put it downstairs in our "rec room". So I said: we should re-tile the room now, the wife didn't like the tiles that were there when we bought the house to begin with, and so we retiled the whole area including laundry/utility room and walk-in storage closet. This also required moving the behemoth construction-grade stand with 5 "temporary" tanks across the room.

I then said: since the whole basement is newly retiled we should just remodel the bathroom and this way the whole level is re-modeled and won't have to worry about anything for a while. So we then gutted the bathroom and spend decent money remodeling it. I won't mention the extra electrical runs while the ceiling was open and upgrades/replacement to the HVAC because you already get the point.

The tank is hopefully coming within the next month or two. Does it cost more than a 40-breeder during the dollar-per-gallon sale at Petco? You bet! Pumps are more expensive and you need more than one, lights are larger and more, more heaters, more powerheads, more sand and more salt, etc, etc, BUT.....

....adding all the "additional" expenses of home remodeling as the cost of the large tank is akin to saying that a Honda Accord costs $120k because you decided to build a garage with professional lift for occasional do-it-yourself brake job.

You want a larger tank? Get it and enjoy it. Don't be the 1-percenter with regrets.
 

K7BMG

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Yes I feel the plight of SteveG_inDC.

My argument against the point is this.
If you chose a tank size that requires a home renovation to incorporate it well......
I am in 100% agreement with BZOFIQ.

The problems with any home renovation are the same especially if walls are removed to open the floor plan and such.
Bearing walls will need to be reinforced and additional footings will need to be added.
Just like adding a second floor to a single story home, the first floor is almost entirely demolished and rebuilt to hold up the second floor. Been there done that at least 100 times throughout my construction years. It will cost more because the existing structure and or construction method and layout are no longer to current code standards. These homes will not have been built for this in the first place.
There are unforeseen issues every time, and when I say unforeseen I mean literally not seen with the eyes. There are so many underground items such as electrical, plumbing, gas lines, vent lines, even duct work, that can become an issue.
Unless you have a set of drawings there is no way of knowing what walls are or are not load bearing until the drywall is removed and the framing is now able to be seen.

When I am asked about home upgrades that will require interior work on foundations and or supports I tell everyone the same thing. Figure your budget, then add 50-60% to that budget and then build accordingly. If you're building outside of the homes exterior then add 20-25%. Like it or not this is the reality of construction.
My answers are not popular and often not heard as I am an electrical contractor not an engineer or general contractor. That said as unpopular as my words are they have been 90% accurate over the 30+ years I have been in the field.

So big tanks have bigger costs for sure, no doubt, but those costs should have been penciled out prior to the decision to move forward. I am referencing the tank costs only here.
If your overwhelmed by the expense then the proper homework was not done.
 

JayLu

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I think this shows the importance of doing a detailed cost estimate prior to buying any parts (for me anyways). The estimate should probably add in extra “placeholder costs“ for the unknowns that will come up. Also, this shows where a large tank is located in the house can be a large cost riser, so any house modifications / reinforcement also needs to be considered. Then maybe have a knowledgable reefing friend check your estimate.
 

ca1ore

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FWIW 3" - 6" is all you'll find even now adays in new builds, 12" slabs are unheard of in the vast majority of buildings!

I was thinking the same. The slab in my basement is about 3". Maybe the OP meant the foundation walls. Either way, I've had larger tanks than 240 sitting on the slab for 25 years without issue.
 

MichaelReefer

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Yikes. Thats why my Fiance and I bought a one story, slab home. I got my Reefer 525XL. I am "not allowed" to go any bigger, according to the woman -_-
 

IKD

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so what im hearing is sell the kids for coral?
I used a valued value stream analysis on each kid based on decision tree format. Something like

can child do water changes?
if yes --> keep​
if no, can child test water parameters?​
If yes —> keep​
If no, can child frag corals?​
If yes —> keep​
If no —> is child my favorite?​
If yes —> keep​
If no —> sell child​

I was down to one kid before the wife created an override divorce statement. Still have two kids.
 
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Kyl

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So I'm about to approve that change order to the construction contract, but seriously thought about whether I could sell the custom tank that's been sitting in the garage and downsize to something that won't break my house. Too late, I guess, since we already moved the supports and I've already accumulated all the equipment that goes with this particular tank.
Also too late, as the moment you expose / open up a grandfathered structural issue that's not up to code, it must be brought up to code. In other words, that cost was sunk the moment the floor was cut.

Renos on older homes are always a healthy dose of risk, pretty much nothing will be up to modern code standards. We had a co-worker here just experience that with some electrical work, which went from moving an outlet over a few feet to almost $15k to re-wire half the house and replacing / upgrading the service panel.
 

southerntnreefer

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I used a valued value stream analysis on each kid based on decision tree format. Something like

can child do water changes?
if yes --> keep​
if no, can child test water parameters?​
If yes —> keep​
If no, can child frag corals?​
If yes —> keep​
If no —> is child my favorite?​
If yes —> keep​
If no —> sell child​

I was down to one kid before the wife created an override divorce statement. Still have two kids.
See i have dogs. They are lucky i love them, as they have no thumbs so all they can do is get hair in the tank, trip me with freshly dipped coral, and pull the water change hose out of the tub...
 

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