Thinking of jumping ship

[jlts21]

No not from GHL but TO GHL. I have Neptune Apex and all the fixings ( all 4 probes, 2 WAVS, auto top off, DOS for water changes, and Trident) along with all the other equipment that I have that’s controlled by Apex (2 heaters, pellet reactor, skimmer, return pump and CalRx reactor in the near future) With the whole trident reagent issue that I’m sure everyone is well aware of, I’m thinking of ditching Neptune and going with GHL. I know it’s just an issue of people testing more often than what was originally thought but I’m tired of having to search and search for a 6 month reagent kit only to have to buy the 2 month at a higher cost per test. Apex coding is a real PITA and I’m also not a fan of having to use Neptune EVERYTHING if you run their controller.


So my question is what all do I need to switch over to GHL? Or where can I find a decent write up because I have no issue with doing my own searching and reading, I just haven’t had any luck finding what I’m looking for. I’m having a hard time navigating GHL’s website since I don’t have a computer

 

[tdhnry]

Here's a great start:

Switching Controllers from Apex to GHL

The title of the thread says it all. I am not going to bash Neptune systems, all I am going to say mine crashed again, and the word fluke in the technical response left me going I cannot take any more chances. This was my second hard crash of the system, where both time the system came up in an...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jlts21]

Here's a great start:

Switching Controllers from Apex to GHL

The title of the thread says it all. I am not going to bash Neptune systems, all I am going to say mine crashed again, and the word fluke in the technical response left me going I cannot take any more chances. This was my second hard crash of the system, where both time the system came up in an...

www.reef2reef.com

Awesome, thank you! I did a search on google (because I can never get the search on here to work right) and did not see this one

 

[tdhnry]

No problem. It's the same thread I used when I made the switch. Never looked back.

 

[Member No 1]

I just did what you are thinking. Full boat Apex. The thread linked above was a great start for me. Lot's of great information. Biggest thing, you need to completely forget how the Apex programming works. We are talking Apples to Oranges here. At first the GHL programming was difficult to understand, but once I wrapped my head around how logical it is, it all clicked. Read, Read Read! Don't get discouraged, ask questions, this forum and the people here are a fantastic source for info and are very helpful.
Set up the Profilux system to run parallel to the Apex until you feel comfortable with it's operation and programming. Then switch it over. I did this for a month or so before I took the Apex off line.
I have no regrets of switching. Well one, I regret I didn't do it sooner!

 

[jlts21]

Well it looks like I have some reading to do. I’m excited to make the switch. I was on the fence before I bought my Apex, but I was at a coral swap where a store that’s a Neptune dealer had a booth and got a deal I couldn’t turn down. It’s worked out great but the tipping point for me has been the trident reagents

 

[jlts21]

I just did what you are thinking. Full boat Apex. The thread linked above was a great start for me. Lot's of great information. Biggest thing, you need to completely forget how the Apex programming works. We are talking Apples to Oranges here. At first the GHL programming was difficult to understand, but once I wrapped my head around how logical it is, it all clicked. Read, Read Read! Don't get discouraged, ask questions, this forum and the people here are a fantastic source for info and are very helpful.
Set up the Profilux system to run parallel to the Apex until you feel comfortable with it's operation and programming. Then switch it over. I did this for a month or so before I took the Apex off line.
I have no regrets of switching. Well one, I regret I didn't do it sooner!

That’s the plan! I’m going to sell my trident and use the money to put towards one of GHLs “kits” and then take the Apex offline once I’m comfortable. Just need to do the research on what all I need to do a full switch over

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

Welcome!

If you'd like to list everything you are doing now with your controller, I can put together a GHL parts list for you to make the changeover more straightforward.

If you ever have any questions about certain products or need some guidance, we have a collection of online resources and a very helpful community of ProfiLux users who would be happy to help.

 

[jlts21]

Welcome!

If you'd like to list everything you are doing now with your controller, I can put together a GHL parts list for you to make the changeover more straightforward.

If you ever have any questions about certain products or need some guidance, we have a collection of online resources and a very helpful community of ProfiLux users who would be happy to help.

Thank you @Vinny@GHLUSA!
Well let’s see here is all the Neptune stuff that I have and what the programming is:
Neptune Apex with EB832 energy bar and probes (temp, ph, salinity and ORP)
2 WAV pumps with program from Apex presets (slightly adjusted)
Neptune ATK (connected with the FMM module)
Neptune DOS (programmed for automatic water changes)
Neptune Trident (minimum testing: 4 alk, 2 cal, 2 mag)
Optical eye sensor for low water level in return section

Here's the non Neptune equipment I have that is controlled by Apex:
2 Finnex titanium heaters (apex controlled power and heater controller for emergency shut off)
Reef Octo skimmer (always on, shut off when feed mode on and off when return pump is off w/ delay start)
PanWorld return pump (always on, turn off if water is below low sensor in return chamber)
Avast Marine bio pellet reactor (always on)

Also have a reef octo CalRx reactor that I'm planning on setting up with a Kamoer Fx-stp, milwaukee solenoid valve and PH probe

Have a Kessil AP700 that is not controlled or even plugged into the energy bar (planning on switching to orphek's for the 180g build)

I think that is everything. I do have plans on switching from my 120g DD bare-bottom to a 180 penninsula with gyre pump on one end towards the top and two powerheads on overflow end near the bottom.

*EDIT* I am totally fine with ditching Neptune all together and going with Vortech powerheads and tunze ATO. When I make the switch, I will sell everything I have that's Neptune.

 

[jlts21]

Also, what is the cost for testing with the ION and KH for say 2 months or 6 months? I will definitely want to test Alk, Cal, and Mag (the additional params are just a bonus) so I will need the ION and KH correct?

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

Perfect!

Here's your parts list.

Controller
Since you're monitoring parameters with those probes and also have an EB, I'd go with the:

• ProfiLux 4 Mega Set; this comes with the probes (temp, pH, redox, conductivity), calibration fluids, 6-outlet powerbar, and connection cables
• If you need to control more than 6 outlets, you can add an additional Powerbar-6E (PL-1725) for 6 more outlets
  • A PAB-cable would also be needed as this will allow you to physically connect the additional powerbar to the P4 system. PAB cables are offered in lengths ranging from 1.5ft - 150ft.

ATO control
There are a couple ways to accomplish this...you can either use a dedicated ATO pump and plug it into one of the powerbar outlets OR you can use a GHL dosing pump for ATO purposes.
As for the actual parts, here's what you'd need:

• 1x GHL sensor; either float (PL-0077) or optical (PL-0082)
• 1x GHL matching bracket for the float (PL-0080) or optical sensor (PL-0723)
• 1x Level sensor assembly rod (PL-1095); holds the float or optical sensor in-place in your sump

AWC control
Since you're managing this task with a dosing unit, the best match would be the

• GHL Doser Maxi Slave; two pump heads for removing old SW and adding new SW
• PAB-cable; physical cable that links the Maxi to the P4 system

The standard way of doing AWC with the ProfiLux is to do it with our float or optical sensors. Although some users choose to skip the sensors and do their WC with normal dosing schedules, we recommend using our sensors because it provides an additional layer of safety with our Max on-time feature which is the built-in failsafe.
For standard AWC, you would need these additional parts:

• 1x GHL sensor; either float (PL-0077) or optical (PL-0082)
• 1x GHL matching bracket for the float (PL-0080) or optical sensor (PL-0723)
• 1x Level sensor splitter cable (PL-0081)

This will allow you to double-up the existing ATO sensor and also use it for AWC purposes. That way, you have the upper sensor which manages your ATO and your AWC max fill point and the lower sensor which handles the AWC max drain point.

Low water level detection for return section

• 1x GHL sensor; either float (PL-0077) or optical (PL-0082)
• 1x GHL matching bracket for the float (PL-0080) or optical sensor (PL-0723)

This will ultimately give you a total of 3 sensors, all which can be placed on the same level sensor assembly rod. If you would rather keep this sensor away from the ATO/AWC sensors, you will also need:

• 1x Level sensor assembly rod (PL-1095); holds the float or optical sensor in-place in your sump

Alkalinity testing
We don't require you to test a minimum of 4x per day. If you want, you can test 1x day or on an as-need basis to conserve some reagent fluid.

• KH Director Slave set
• PAB-cable; physical cable that links the KHD set to the P4 system

Cost per test can be as little as 0.03 cents / test.
500ml bottle can last up to 3 months with 2 tests per day depending on each test result
1000ml bottle: 6 months

Calcium, Magnesium, Nitrate, Potassium, Sodium testing
The ION Director can take care of this for you.

• ION Director Slave set
• PAB-cable; physical cable that links the KHD set to the P4 system

Cost per test can be as little as 0.25 cents for all parameters
500ml bottle can last about 1.5 months with 2 tests per day depending on each test result
1000ml bottle: About 3.5 months

Flow pump control
Unfortunately, the WAV pumps are not compatible with the ProfiLux because they each use a different communication method.

Calcium reactor control
The ProfiLux can control this when you have the solenoid power plug connected to one of the powerbar outlets. You would also need an additional pH probe which will be installed into the CaRx. If you already own a probe, you can use what you already have as long as it has a BNC connector.

The unique thing about the P4 is its capability to convert an existing Redox port into a pH port. If you don't think you'll use the Redox probe, you can easily switch that port over to pH mode and connect your pH probe to it, then calibrate it with the proper fluids. In that case you wouldn't need anything else.

If you will use the Redox port, then you will need an expansion card which gives you the additional pH port.
We have quite a bit of options here,
Choose one:

• PLM-pH/Redox (PL-0808); this is a single port card which can be switched between pH and Redox mode
• PLM-pH-Redox (PL-0006); 2 ports, one for pH and one for Redox
• PLM-pH/Redox - Cond (PL-0977); 2 ports, one switchable pH/redox port and one switchable conductivity port
• PLM-CondS-pH (PL-0099); 2 ports, one for conductivity SW range and one for pH
• PLM-pH/Redox-2Level (PL-0871); 2 ports, one switchable pH/redox port and one Level sensor port
  • I recommend this one for you since it gives you the option to add even more float, optical, leak, or flow sensors later down the road.
• PLM-pH/Redox-DigTemp (PL-1258); 2 ports, one switchable pH/redox port and one digital temperature port

Take your time with the information. I know I just threw a lot at you.
If you have any other questions, feel free to reach out. We're here to help.

 

[jlts21]

Perfect!

Here's your parts list.

Controller
Since you're monitoring parameters with those probes and also have an EB, I'd go with the:

• ProfiLux 4 Mega Set; this comes with the probes (temp, pH, redox, conductivity), calibration fluids, 6-outlet powerbar, and connection cables
• If you need to control more than 6 outlets, you can add an additional Powerbar-6E (PL-1725) for 6 more outlets
  • A PAB-cable would also be needed as this will allow you to physically connect the additional powerbar to the P4 system. PAB cables are offered in lengths ranging from 1.5ft - 150ft.

ATO control
There are a couple ways to accomplish this...you can either use a dedicated ATO pump and plug it into one of the powerbar outlets OR you can use a GHL dosing pump for ATO purposes.
As for the actual parts, here's what you'd need:

• 1x GHL sensor; either float (PL-0077) or optical (PL-0082)
• 1x GHL matching bracket for the float (PL-0080) or optical sensor (PL-0723)
• 1x Level sensor assembly rod (PL-1095); holds the float or optical sensor in-place in your sump

AWC control
Since you're managing this task with a dosing unit, the best match would be the

• GHL Doser Maxi Slave; two pump heads for removing old SW and adding new SW
• PAB-cable; physical cable that links the Maxi to the P4 system

The standard way of doing AWC with the ProfiLux is to do it with our float or optical sensors. Although some users choose to skip the sensors and do their WC with normal dosing schedules, we recommend using our sensors because it provides an additional layer of safety with our Max on-time feature which is the built-in failsafe.
For standard AWC, you would need these additional parts:

• 1x GHL sensor; either float (PL-0077) or optical (PL-0082)
• 1x GHL matching bracket for the float (PL-0080) or optical sensor (PL-0723)
• 1x Level sensor splitter cable (PL-0081)

This will allow you to double-up the existing ATO sensor and also use it for AWC purposes. That way, you have the upper sensor which manages your ATO and your AWC max fill point and the lower sensor which handles the AWC max drain point.

Low water level detection for return section

• 1x GHL sensor; either float (PL-0077) or optical (PL-0082)
• 1x GHL matching bracket for the float (PL-0080) or optical sensor (PL-0723)

This will ultimately give you a total of 3 sensors, all which can be placed on the same level sensor assembly rod. If you would rather keep this sensor away from the ATO/AWC sensors, you will also need:

• 1x Level sensor assembly rod (PL-1095); holds the float or optical sensor in-place in your sump

Alkalinity testing
We don't require you to test a minimum of 4x per day. If you want, you can test 1x day or on an as-need basis to conserve some reagent fluid.

• KH Director Slave set
• PAB-cable; physical cable that links the KHD set to the P4 system

Cost per test can be as little as 0.03 cents / test.
500ml bottle can last up to 3 months with 2 tests per day depending on each test result
1000ml bottle: 6 months

Calcium, Magnesium, Nitrate, Potassium, Sodium testing
The ION Director can take care of this for you.

• ION Director Slave set
• PAB-cable; physical cable that links the KHD set to the P4 system

Cost per test can be as little as 0.25 cents for all parameters
500ml bottle can last about 1.5 months with 2 tests per day depending on each test result
1000ml bottle: About 3.5 months

Flow pump control
Unfortunately, the WAV pumps are not compatible with the ProfiLux because they each use a different communication method.

Calcium reactor control
The ProfiLux can control this when you have the solenoid power plug connected to one of the powerbar outlets. You would also need an additional pH probe which will be installed into the CaRx. If you already own a probe, you can use what you already have as long as it has a BNC connector.

The unique thing about the P4 is its capability to convert an existing Redox port into a pH port. If you don't think you'll use the Redox probe, you can easily switch that port over to pH mode and connect your pH probe to it, then calibrate it with the proper fluids. In that case you wouldn't need anything else.

If you will use the Redox port, then you will need an expansion card which gives you the additional pH port.
We have quite a bit of options here,
Choose one:

• PLM-pH/Redox (PL-0808); this is a single port card which can be switched between pH and Redox mode
• PLM-pH-Redox (PL-0006); 2 ports, one for pH and one for Redox
• PLM-pH/Redox - Cond (PL-0977); 2 ports, one switchable pH/redox port and one switchable conductivity port
• PLM-CondS-pH (PL-0099); 2 ports, one for conductivity SW range and one for pH
• PLM-pH/Redox-2Level (PL-0871); 2 ports, one switchable pH/redox port and one Level sensor port
  • I recommend this one for you since it gives you the option to add even more float, optical, leak, or flow sensors later down the road.
• PLM-pH/Redox-DigTemp (PL-1258); 2 ports, one switchable pH/redox port and one digital temperature port

Take your time with the information. I know I just threw a lot at you.
If you have any other questions, feel free to reach out. We're here to help.

Awesome, thank you @Vinny@GHLUSA!
Regarding the powerhead flow, I’m totally fine with ditching the WAVs and going to vortechs because there is no point in keeping the WAVs when I sell the apex when I can just bundle everything and sell it all at once

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

Okay in that case if you wanted to control those Vortech pumps through the ProfiLux, you can do it with the Vortech controller accessory (PL-0757) and a PAB-cable. This part will wirelessly control those pumps.

 

[FMF0331]

Interested in GHL too ... so much to take in, looks like i'll be doing more reading

 

[Vinny@GHLUSA]

Interested in GHL too ... so much to take in, looks like i'll be doing more reading

We're here if you need us.

If you'd like a hand putting together your own parts list, just make a new thread and let me know what you have and what you're looking to monitor and control.

 

[Ditto]

As others have said we are here to help, and do not be afraid to ask questions

 

[jlts21]

Interested in GHL too ... so much to take in, looks like i'll be doing more reading

I’m right there with ya. It is overwhelming with all the info and reading (just like when I was looking into the apex), but @Vinny@GHLUSA has already helped me quite a bit along with everybody else that’s in this thread, so a HUGE thank to everyone for the help so far. It seems I will have quite a bit more money invested in a GHL setup that is identical to my Neptune setup, but I feel like it is leaps and bounds better than Neptune (backwards compatible, better customer service, more “customizable” in that you don’t have to use just GHL products like you do with Neptune “Use Neptune products or you can’t control them”)

 

[TheHarold]

I’m right there with ya. It is overwhelming with all the info and reading (just like when I was looking into the apex), but @Vinny@GHLUSA has already helped me quite a bit along with everybody else that’s in this thread, so a HUGE thank to everyone for the help so far. It seems I will have quite a bit more money invested in a GHL setup that is identical to my Neptune setup, but I feel like it is leaps and bounds better than Neptune (backwards compatible, better customer service, more “customizable” in that you don’t have to use just GHL products like you do with Neptune “Use Neptune products or you can’t control them”)

Just because I am curious.... what products are you interested in that the GHL can control and the apex cannot?

 

[jlts21]

Just because I am curious.... what products are you interested in that the GHL can control and the apex cannot?

Nothing in particular, just speaking in general. It seems like Neptune likes to make their stuff Neptune only. I’m not going to get into all the reasons why I’m switching because that’s not what this thread is for, I’m more than happy to discuss it with you in PM. I have nothing bad to say about Neptune at all, I’m just unhappy with Neptune and feel like I need to make a switch

 

[TheHarold]

Nothing in particular, just speaking in general. It seems like Neptune likes to make their stuff Neptune only. I’m not going to get into all the reasons why I’m switching because that’s not what this thread is for, I’m more than happy to discuss it with you in PM. I have nothing bad to say about Neptune at all, I’m just unhappy with Neptune and feel like I need to make a switch

Oh no problem. I just didn’t understand the reference, as to my understanding they both are limited to outlets on/off, 0-10v based control, and optional modules to communicate with Ecotech products. I couldn’t think of one product that fit your description of “use Neptune products or you can’t control them”, as it compares to GHL being able control them instead.

But yeah, reagent accessibility during Covid has been difficult.