To Carbon dose or not

[thomas hudson]

I have a new tank that is about 4 months old, a lot of the live rock is from my old tank though. The old tank was about 6 years old. My questions is should i carbon dose and do you think it will help me get my nitrates down. Last time i tested they were hovering around 20-25ppm. Also if you have any links to articles that might help me that would be awesome.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

Yes, and my vote from using vinegar/vodka/biopellets/instant ocean nitrate reducer/nitrate reduction media pads and rock type, would goto nopox. Makes it real easy, it's very stable, and definitely makes a difference.

 

[BlueCursor]

If you have high nitrates -- you do!-- you need to control nitrates somehow. Carbon dosing via some method in conjunction with skimming is a great way to reduce nitrates.

I use nopox myself. If you live in a state that allows everclear (90% ethanol), you can use that. The price will be very similar to nopox. Nopox is very cost affective and easier to control dosing as opposed to biopellets. I had biopellets and won't go back. Nopox/Vodka/Everclear for me all the way now.

With Nopox, it has great instructions. That is what you follow, or maybe even cut the recommended amount in half and start there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I discuss carbon dosing here:

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

and

http://www.reefedition.com/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium/

 

[helldiver]

I like vinagar and a Diy Ats with miricale mud
I like it natural i dose vinagar 12 times a day

 

[SamsReef]

There is a simple solution for nitrates, which requires porous live rock and patience. It works always. If anything I had to take some live rock out because my nitrates would always be ~0

Carbon dosing will not make a dent on phosphate...you will be using GFO if you have even an average bio load. Been there, done that, will never do it again.

Live rock and GFO works long term.

Sam

 

[biom]

I'm dosing mix vodka vinegar mix from 3 years and have no problems with phosphates, never used GFO during that time.

 

[Waterjockey]

There is a simple solution for nitrates, which requires porous live rock and patience. It works always. If anything I had to take some live rock out because my nitrates would always be ~0

Carbon dosing will not make a dent on phosphate...you will be using GFO if you have even an average bio load. Been there, done that, will never do it again.

Live rock and GFO works long term.

Sam

I have to disagree. Carbon dosing will reduce phosphates along with nitrates, at whatever ratio the bacteria require carbon:nitrate: phosphate. One of the "issues" with carbon dosing for nitrate *and* phosphate removal is it will tend to reduce nitrates to zero, while some amount of phosphate remains. You in effect go from being carbon limited to nitrate limited. What many people successfully do is dose nitrates along with carbon. You can, by this method effectively reduce phosphates to zero should you chose to. I use a balance of carbon and sometimes nitrate dosing to control nitrates and phosphates exactly where I want them.

 

[Myka]

What was the nitrate level in the old tank before the transfer? Did you use new sand or reuse the old sand?

I like to exhaust all options before carbon dosing because I like to keep things as simple as possible. I own an aquarium service company, and simple is generally easier, but not what everyone wants. I use carbon dosing on client tanks that are overstocked and/or overfed. It helps control this problem and make my life easier. Haha! In most cases though, I find it is the person that needs carbon dosing, not the tank. In other words, it is the maintenance, stocking, and feeding style of the person that condemns the tank to the nitrate problem. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just different husbandry styles. If you want to use carbon dosing, go ahead and do it, if you prefer not to, then that is also an option as long as you're willing to change methodologies. It's all about choosing an option for nutrient control. :)

 

[sneub]

I have used Rea Sea's NO3 PO4-X on a previous tank that I had, works great. Pricey if you have a large tank.

 

[Sharir]

I think Redsea NO3PO4X is a great solution for your high nitrates and phosphate. It is a great
choice because it slowly reduces your nitrates and phosphate over 3 to 4 weeks as apposed to other carbon dosing methods which can quickly eliminate your nitrates and phosphate, this will stress your coral and cause a sudden bacterial bloom and quickly deplete the oxygen levels in your tank. If you can't resist the diy bug (like me) then do vodka but start at the lower end of the recommended dose and work your way up. Always remember "Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank - unless it is a water change" I hope this helps.

 

[Sharir]

For a great way to carbon dose without causing any red slimes try Donnovan's nitrate destroyer... It works for meeee.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

The recommended vodka and vinegar doses on that chart everyone goes off of are very small starting dose and increments. But it is good to go slow.
I have been using vodka and or vinegar for a long time now and am using 200 ml a day now on 100 gallons of water. It works amazingly although I am lower my nitrate numbers so I will probably be back down to 180 or 160 ml a day in a seller or two.
The best part of carbon dosing is the other life in the tank that benifits from it. Sponges, filter feeders and so on all the way up to the fish in the tank benifit. I think there are a lot of tanks that would benifit from using a carbon source, especially coral tanks with well fed fish. I have seen a number of tanks like this with slow or unhealthy looking coral growth and once the bacteria populated and the tank starting using it, the corals started to grow normally.

 

[Crustaceon]

Carbon dosing is good stuff if you take it slow, don’t overdose and have sufficient tank stocking to always have at least some nitrates and phosphates being continually generated. I also ran refugiums & algae scrubbers and decided to go back to carbon dosing because I got tired of trying to contain loose algae strands with screens that frequently clogged and caused my ato to dump in a little more kalk than I’d like. If you overdose vodka/vinegar/biopellets/nopox, you can get pretty thick bacterial slime clogging things up in the same way, but if you start with small doses, you can easily find a balance and avoid that.

 

[YankeeTankee]

Carbon dosing will reduce mostly N and some P.

Go slowly and test N/P often especially when starting, do not bottom out either.

Read Randy's article.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I used to split my dose, half vodka half vinegar and I never saw any red cyano out of the ordinary. But I used to have to clean my drains coming off of the 40 breeder that I kept live rock in because I dosed the carbon in there. I would get bacterial mats but only in that tank and drain line. The sponge growth was just amazing even with no powerheads just the drain from another tank running through it. Cleaning the drains was annoying and I would design it with much larger sized pipe next time with no horizontal runs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I think Redsea NO3PO4X is a great solution for your high nitrates and phosphate. It is a great
choice because it slowly reduces your nitrates and phosphate over 3 to 4 weeks as apposed to other carbon dosing methods which can quickly eliminate your nitrates and phosphate, this will stress your coral and cause a sudden bacterial bloom and quickly deplete the oxygen levels in your tank. If you can't resist the diy bug (like me) then do vodka but start at the lower end of the recommended dose and work your way up. Always remember "Nothing good happens fast in a reef tank - unless it is a water change" I hope this helps.

The slow effect you note is entirely dose dependent, and most folks dose one of more of the same ingredients in NOPOX anyway. It is not anything special about NOPOX.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

For a great way to carbon dose without causing any red slimes try Donnovan's nitrate destroyer... It works for meeee.

Didn't you just promote NOPOX in the post right above this one?

Which one do you use?

 

[Ti64reef]

Ok so I'm having a bit of a disaster with the NoPox. I had algale going out of control on the sand bed and the rocks so I started NoPox last week at 2 ml per day per 25 gallons. Phosphate and nitrate went to zero on a hanna checker and salifert kit. My coral seem to be raging mad and have shriveled up to the point I'm afraid they might die. I backed the NoPox way off and changing 10 percent of water every 2 days. Any ideas on what to do. I finally got the tank stable now this mess! Also here are the current parameters.
Ph. 8.15 avg
Alk. 9.5
Calcium. 400
Magnesium. 1280
Temp 78
Salinity. 34

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok so I'm having a bit of a disaster with the NoPox. I had algale going out of control on the sand bed and the rocks so I started NoPox last week at 2 ml per day per 25 gallons. Phosphate and nitrate went to zero on a hanna checker and salifert kit. My coral seem to be raging mad and have shriveled up to the point I'm afraid they might die. I backed the NoPox way off and changing 10 percent of water every 2 days. Any ideas on what to do. I finally got the tank stable now this mess! Also here are the current parameters.
Ph. 8.15 avg
Alk. 9.5
Calcium. 400
Magnesium. 1280
Temp 78
Salinity. 34

The problem is likely nutrients too low. Stop changing water and feed more.