Trace Element discussion

[rcpalmer1]

I would consider myself an informed reefer. I have kept saltwater aquariums for 20 years. In the last few years, the availability and amount of information, anyone willing to look can have a better understanding before they start their first tank than the season reefers of just a few years ago. With that said I have some ideas and concepts about Trace Elements I don't understand or have conflicting information. Some are good and some are bad. Some can be both depending on the amount. I would hope that I can get a discussion started that can bring information into one place. I will make a few comments to start a few different ideas to discuss.

First I would like to address only trace elements, not major elements or nutrients in this thread. With ICP testing we can now see what is in our water that we never could before. Depending on who you have test your water you may get different recommendation on what you should maintain your levels at. One example would be a ICP test suggest Sr be 12-14 mg/L. A Sr supplement suggest 8-13 mg/L. What I would like to know is what are the safe low and high limits and the ideal range of each. Would in this example 12-13 mg/L be ideal and 8 -14 mg/L be safe? It would be great if some of the ICP test companies give their recommendations along with some of the Supplement companies. I would think they would have research data already compiled. Here are some numbers to start with I got from an ICP test company.
Ag-Silver None
Al-Aluminum None
As-Arsenic None
B-Boron 4-6
Ba- Barium None
Be- Beryllium None
Br-Bromine 65
Cd- Cadmium None
Ce-Cerium None
Cl-Chlorine <19,000
Co-Cobalt 0.01-0.02
Cr-Chromium 0.02
Cu-Copper None
Fe-Iron <0.002
Ga-Gallium None
I-Iodine 0.06
K-Potassium 380
La-Lanthanum 0.01
Li-Lithium 0.3
Mn-Manganese None
Mo-Molybdenum <0.02
Ni-Nickel <0.01
Pb-lead None
Rb-Rubidium None
S-Sulfur None
Sb-Antimony None
Se-Selenium None
Si-Silicon None
Sn-Tin None
Sr-Strontium 12-14
Ti-Titanium None
Tl-Thallium None
U-Uranium None
V-Vanadium None
W-Tungsten None
Zn-Zinc None

 

[rcpalmer1]

Many Reefers run Carbon. The BRS/WWC Hybrid system has Carbon as a component. Would running Carbon also remove beneficial trace elements like Iodine?

 

[Brew12]

What I would like to know is what are the safe low and high limits and the ideal range of each. Would in this example 12-13 mg/L be ideal and 8 -14 mg/L be safe?

I'm not sure there is much agreement on exactly what ideal numbers would be. I know at least one ICP provider shows what levels of each element are found in several different ocean locations. Kinda shocking how much variance there is site to site.

It would be great if some of the ICP test companies give their recommendations along with some of the Supplement companies.

Triton is the only one I know of to give dosing recommendations. It would be nice if it were easier to figure out how to use other suppliers trace elements. I guess the manufacturers don't want to list the exact concentration of each included trace element. If they would do that, the rest would be easier.

 

[rcpalmer1]

I'm not sure there is much agreement on exactly what ideal numbers would be. I know at least one ICP provider shows what levels of each element are found in several different ocean locations. Kinda shocking how much variance there is site to site.


Triton is the only one I know of to give dosing recommendations. It would be nice if it were easier to figure out how to use other suppliers trace elements. I guess the manufacturers don't want to list the exact concentration of each included trace element. If they would do that, the rest would be easier.

Triton shows your results on a bar. It is gradient from red to yellow to green to yellow to red. Red is bad and green is good. They give a setpoint on most as one number and your result plotted on the line. So if their set point is the middle of the green it would be nice to know what number does the green start and stop at. Using Sr as an example again Triton has is as setpoint 8 mg/L. On one of my test with them I was at 4.029mg/L. One their graph I was still in the green but they also wanted me to dose 220ml of their supplement. I has another where my tank was 6.701mg/L even closer to the center of the green and they still wanted me to dose. If I was at 9 mg/L would I need to do emergency water changes? This is my exact point. Having more accurate information is great as long as you know what is means. I know everyone will not agree on a number. Some people keep their Alk at 8.4 dkh while others keep theirs at 11 dkh. Most will still agree that most corals will not die between 8-12 dkh. In an ideal world I would get everyone's recommendations and plot them. If the there was a 10 point difference from the highest to lowest recommendation. Lets say 50-59. If 54-57 was covered by 100% , 53 and 58 was 75%, 52 and 59 was 50%, and 50-51 was only 25%. I would take that as 54-57 ideal range, 53-58 most likely safe, 52-59 possibly safe. I have read some articles Randy has written on different elements. I have never found a source with all or most elements together.