Use copepods to cycle a tank?

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Like you said your not the first to come up with the idea, so if it was viable there would be discussion about it. But there's no discussion and those threads just die away.

But I encourage you to try, why not? You don't need our consent for anything. Maybe you'll prove us all wrong. No need to argue or discuss, just do it, and let us know how it works out.

 

[exnisstech]

But I encourage you to try, why not? You don't need our consent for anything. Maybe you'll prove us all wrong. No need to argue or discuss, just do it, and let us know how it works out.

I agree with ^ this. ^
You have nothing to loose. If it works great. If it doesn't you'll know and you may learn a few things along the way. Many advancements in this hobby have been made possible because of people trying new things. People used to put pennies in their tanks and now we have copper medication. You won't know unless you try and it sounds like you want to try it so I say do it.
As to cost, who cares if it cost $10 or $100 to cycle a tank? Most end up with thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars spent before it's over.

 

[Michael71]

I have found it interesting reading through threads like this. The hobby and practices have changed so much in my 15 year absense.. in 2010 we used actual live sand, and live rock to cycle a tank and if you wanted you dropped a grocery store shrimp into the tank to add a source of ammonia...the inevitable critters that came with the live rock were for the most part a pleasant surprise...did you deal with the occasional bristle worm or pistol shrimp, yep,but you also got sponges, macro algae, coraline, maybe a cool crab or coral, i even had the coolest yellow and blue tunicates show up after 6 months. there was no skipping a phase, watching the changes and some testing was how you knew the tank cycled. After 30 to 45 days, you stocked responsibly. I would agree with exnisstech..give it a go and enjoy the process. That is ultimately why we are all here. To enjoy our little pieces of the reef and hopefully learn from others...the bad and good and share our own experiences along the way!!!! Good luck with the startups fellow reefers.

 

[saltyfish24]

cycling with pods, or hermits etc would work. they all have a metabolism that produces ammonia. But if you use live phyto, it might culture up in the tank and consume all the available ammonia. preserved phyto shouldn't be a problem though.

Thanks, I didn't think about the possibility that the live phyto places like AlgaeBarn might consume ammonia and compete with the bacteria. Although I wasn't thinking of lighting the tank, the amount of photosynthesis is pretty minimal. Maybe at some point light the tank to keep some of the phyto growing isn't a bad idea, I don't know.

 

[rookie 220]

I actually kinda did this when restarting my 220
Placed dead rock in and live sand. Didn’t turn the lights on and just let everything sit for couple weeks
Then turned lights on and after about 2 weeks got like a white mold looking thing everywhere, added 5 jars of galaxy pods from algae barn and started dosing the phytoplankton the next day
After few days that white stuff was gone
Waited another couple weeks and started adding fish
Maybe I got lucky idk and maybe I took the rule of thumb that nothing good happens when rushing in this hobby and just took it extra slow
It’s been maybe 2 years since and tank is looking awesome, for me anyways lol
I also would wait couple months between additions like food or coral

 

[saltyfish24]

I still think it will take longer if you are relying on pods to be your ammonia source for the nitrifying bacteria. They probably produce a tiny amount of ammonia. It will eventually cycle but will take longer.

That's true. Might need to add ammonia to speed it up. But the great thing is unlike fish, the copepods seem like they can handle it. So maybe at some point there would be a "best" method that someone can publish includes how much ammonia to add.

 

[Lavey29]

That's true. Might need to add ammonia to speed it up. But the great thing is unlike fish, the copepods seem like they can handle it. So maybe at some point there would be a "best" method that someone can publish includes how much ammonia to add.

As others mentioned add a few pieces of live wet ocean rock and you have an instant cycle and you turbo charge your new tanks biome.

 

[PharmrJohn]

Like you said your not the first to come up with the idea, so if it was viable there would be discussion about it. But there's no discussion and those threads just die away.

But I encourage you to try, why not? You don't need our consent for anything. Maybe you'll prove us all wrong. No need to argue or discuss, just do it, and let us know how it works out.

This is the best piece of advise you're gonna get. In the end, there are many paths to Nirvana. You find yours.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Just put some corals/macroalgae in the tank with some (fresh, overnight or fish store) live rock and don't bother "cycling". I have not "cycled" a fresh or saltwater system in over a decade and I have put up and taken down several. A small fish or even a few small fish are not going to produce enough ammonia to poison themselves faster than it can be consumed by microbes or algae. The concept of "cycling" is a holdover from decades ago when aquariums were just overstocked glass boxes of goldfish or guppies with tiny HOB filters and plastic plants. We don't need to be doing that in any system that has living plants, algae (incl. coral symbionts), and microbes.

 

[saltyfish24]

Like you said your not the first to come up with the idea, so if it was viable there would be discussion about it. But there's no discussion and those threads just die away.

But I encourage you to try, why not? You don't need our consent for anything. Maybe you'll prove us all wrong. No need to argue or discuss, just do it, and let us know how it works out.

I didn't mean to sound argumentative, and neither am I asking for permission necessarily. I'm just one person, and have limited ability to experiment with starting new saltwater aquariums, the way others might or the way a group of people could pool knowledge. I'm just a newbie. Perhaps other people with more experience and knowledge (but have never thought to try using pods to cycle) will read a post like this one and think it's a good idea and work out the details of how to do it well. There's a lot of details to doing cycling with whatever method, it's not just throw some pods in there.

The forum is here for discussion, so that's what this is. It's good to understand why other people think it won't work. Or to solicit comments from people who have tried this.

 

[ElementReefer]

No, you cannot “cycle an aquarium with copepods.”

“Cycling” means two things:
-The nitrogen cycle, which is accomplished by bacteria and archaea.
-The benthic procession, which is the waves of uglies that happen after you light up new rocks and sand.

Copepods and other tiny critters play an important role in managing both the initial benthic procession and the mature ecosystem. They do nothing more or less than that.

 

[saltyfish24]

No, you cannot “cycle an aquarium with copepods.”

“Cycling” means two things:
-The nitrogen cycle, which is accomplished by bacteria and archaea.
-The benthic procession, which is the waves of uglies that happen after you light up new rocks and sand.

Copepods and other tiny critters play an important role in managing both the initial benthic procession and the mature ecosystem. They do nothing more or less than that.

When copepods metabolize phyto, doesn't that give off ammonia, which "cycles the tank". Don't people use to use fish to "cycle the tank". Or do you mean the amount of ammonia they produce is so minuscule that the ammonia concentration won't be high enough to quickly encourage the production of nitrifying bacteria?

 

[Cael Gallery]

It would probably eventually work but would take months, so why? I fully cycled my 200g in 4 days after i filled it with water. I added two mid sized fish, about 20 kilos of established live rock and media and added some bottled bacteria to get the sand bed started.

 

[ElementReefer]

When copepods metabolize phyto, doesn't that give off ammonia, which "cycles the tank". Don't people use to use fish to "cycle the tank". Or do you mean the amount of ammonia they produce is so minuscule that the ammonia concentration won't be high enough to quickly encourage the production of nitrifying bacteria?

Yup, you figured it out.

 

[Üter]

having shrimp for dinner tonight? Just toss in one raw shrimp.

 

[Michael71]

having shrimp for dinner tonight? Just toss in one raw shrimp.

Then start monitoring ammonia until you get a reading high enough for a true cycle to start. Once you do, remove the shrimp

 

[BigAl07]

......I'm just one person, and have limited ability to experiment with starting new saltwater aquariums, the way others might or the way a group of people could pool knowledge.....

I see your point but, to be honest, "experiment with starting new saltwater aquariums" is EXACTLY what you're asking about.

The fact that you aren't reading about it "anymore" pretty much give you your answers.

The forum is here for discussion, so that's what this is. It's good to understand why other people think it won't work. Or to solicit comments from people who have tried this.

This forum IS your Pool Knowledge but that doesn't mean you can't "Forge your own path" in the SW/Reef Hobby. It's your tank and you absolutely should do it whichever way you want. But, with all due respect, you should dig into and get a better understanding of the Tank Cycle vs Ammonia in terms of what copepods CAN do. Without a sizeable source of Ammonia it's doubtful you'll get any type of appreciable "Cycle" because there just won't be enough Food/Waste to get broken down to start/feed the Nitrogen Cycle. If you have a "soft cycle" then you can expect another secondary cycle as soon as you add livestock. It's a balancing act and going soft in the beginning is only prolonging the process.

The cheapest "Cycle" is either to Ghost Feed the tank or drop a deli shrimp in and let things progress. These 2 methods take a good while but they work. My 2nd SW tank was cycled using Damsels (not a good idea IMHO), my next tank was "Ghost Feeding" and the next 4 tanks were "Deli Shrimp". All of these work. Over the years we've tried various methods and every few years new ideas/methods/products come out and we give them a try. Some methods never really work and fall to the side which is what I suspect why you don't read about "Copepod Cycling" now.

My last tank was done with Dr. Tim's and that's a GAME changer. As soon as they "Cycle" was complete (as far as testing could show) I added 8 fish, a bottle of Pods, and started dosing Phyto. The tank never went through the UGLY phase but I did add a sizeable CUC after just a month as well.

For clarity, I am a HUGE fan of Copepods and Phyto. My tank gets a fresh dose of both every day or two and I have a very robust Pod-pulation.

 

[Paul B]

IMO you are wasting your time trying to cycle anything with copepods. They put out a minuscule amount of wastes and before they even do that, they need to eat and there is little in a new tank to eat.

Throw in a dead shrimp or some clam meat like we have been doing since the salt water hobby started in 1971. (In the US, Germany started a little earlier)

Then add some live rock and your good to go.

My tank is running over 50 years and I never bought a pod. :cool:

But if you want to do that, you would need this many. :D

 

[Faurek]

The initial rational makes no sense to me, so not spending money on the cycle but then throwing 50$ worth of pods?
I think the idea is great and I would seed a new tank like this if pods had easy access where I live, but we get pods every 2 months. The way that it would probably work is throw the pods and small foods in, then let them eat and breed for like 4 months. But if you want to save money get some mollies acclimate to salt and they will cycle the tank with the bonus of helping with algae, the nicer ones kinda look like anthias to me.

 

[kenchilada]

1. Get a block of sponge
2. Give it to a friend to keep in their sump
3. When you setup your tank, throw the sponge in your sump

Done.

This is what we do to setup quarantine tanks and instantly have ammonia processing online. As usual, the internet takes something simple and turns it into a complicated mess.