Velvet help

[toddb93]

Looking for some help with what I think is velvet. So to begin I haven’t added anything new to the tank as far as fish for a month or two. It is a mixed reef tank so I have added a piece of coral or two. But within the last few weeks I’ve lost a scooter blenny, mandarin dragonet, and now this morning my male clownfish is covered in white and swimming erratically. I’ve had ich before but this looks different so I’m thinking velvet. Also the fish looked normal and ate normal yesterday and this change happened overnight.

Due to lack of space I do not have a QT setup and I understand that this fish may pass. But my big question is how do I manage a disease like this in a mixed reef tank? I cannot use copper or any other additives due to coral and inverts. If I do normal weekly water changes and wait a while, will the water be safe to put fish in at any point? Or is there anything else I should do?

 

[toddb93]

Due to living space I don’t have any space to set up more tanks lol, so any advise other than that I would really appreciate the help.

Thanks in advance

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looking for some help with what I think is velvet. So to begin I haven’t added anything new to the tank as far as fish for a month or two. It is a mixed reef tank so I have added a piece of coral or two. But within the last few weeks I’ve lost a scooter blenny, mandarin dragonet, and now this morning my male clownfish is covered in white and swimming erratically. I’ve had ich before but this looks different so I’m thinking velvet. Also the fish looked normal and ate normal yesterday and this change happened overnight.

Due to lack of space I do not have a QT setup and I understand that this fish may pass. But my big question is how do I manage a disease like this in a mixed reef tank? I cannot use copper or any other additives due to coral and inverts. If I do normal weekly water changes and wait a while, will the water be safe to put fish in at any point? Or is there anything else I should do?

You can try reef safe ruby rally pro but a gamble. When in the saltwater hobby, having a backup for disease is a must and coppersafe is the best remedy as hypo will not work for velvet and most gobies not tolerant of coppersafe.
How did you conclude you have velvet and not ich or secondary bacterial issue?
Can you furnish pics under white light (no blue) intensity for assessment?

 

[toddb93]

You can try reef safe ruby rally pro but a gamble. When in the saltwater hobby, having a backup for disease is a must and coppersafe is the best remedy as hypo will not work for velvet and most gobies not tolerant of coppersafe.
How did you conclude you have velvet and not ich or secondary bacterial issue?
Can you furnish pics under white light (no blue) intensity for assessment?

Thank you for a very fast reply, I’ll attach a couple pics of the fish that seems to be affected now. It is a guess of velvet, it can possibly be ich but the loss of these few fish has happened very fast, eating the day before and then overnight they were gone. The clownfish now seems to show white dots/fuzz which were not there 12 hours ago. These are pics i took just now. I appreciate your advice.

 

[toddb93]

Only thing I can add to this, about 3 weeks ago I had a very large nutrient spike due to an auto feeder failure. Over the last few weeks I have been doing small water changes along with rowaphos on this tank which is 38 gallons, and have been slowly bringing nutrients down. But other than that no other changes or livestock additions.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for a very fast reply, I’ll attach a couple pics of the fish that seems to be affected now. It is a guess of velvet, it can possibly be ich but the loss of these few fish has happened very fast, eating the day before and then overnight they were gone. The clownfish now seems to show white dots/fuzz which were not there 12 hours ago. These are pics i took just now. I appreciate your advice.

The main symptom of velvet, sometimes the only symptom, is rapid breathing and not eating. Ich and Brooklynella causes white lesions on the fish’s skin; white pinhead spots with ich, and thicker mucus for brooklynella (but ich can look like Brook in older infections).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you for a very fast reply, I’ll attach a couple pics of the fish that seems to be affected now. It is a guess of velvet, it can possibly be ich but the loss of these few fish has happened very fast, eating the day before and then overnight they were gone. The clownfish now seems to show white dots/fuzz which were not there 12 hours ago. These are pics i took just now. I appreciate your advice.

Jay already offered clues and i see what is Secondary bacterial lesions associated with brook.
The most significant sign is the amount of slime on its body which is noticeable on the fish. This mucus generally starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Start with a prolonged 60 minute bath of ruby rally pro then at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
Since a formalin solution is often not available for use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

 

[Cool tangs]

Just get a big high quality UV, that's how most of us Aussies manage it over here and it works like a charm. Ain't nobody got time for QT. Honestly oversize, high quality UV running the correct flow rates for 180,000 microwatts. You'll be able to keep those hard to keep fish without the hard work. I honestly can't rate UV enough it's been a god send in my tank! I had a outbreak not long ago after turning UV off for almost 2 years. Introduced some snails and got white spot again. Got my UV online and haven't seen white spot after about 2 weeks running it. It's been about 3 months now and no issue, no losses. Only losses I had recently was from the move and the people moving the tank left some fish too long in the hot sun(3 in total, 6line wrasse, stripey and my gold rim tang) Prior to this I had a crazy outbreak many years ago and again UV saved my skin of what fish was left from the devastation. Again can't rate UV enough. I have a lifegard UV, they make a fantastic product!

QT is hard, it's bloody hard and unforgiving. I always give hats off to those who have success with QT because I did not. It works but it's a lot of work, like a lot of it and a lot of discipline, it takes one stuff up to reverse all your hard work. More and more people are starting to report more success with correctly sized high quality UV. But you can't skimp out. They are not cheap and generally need to replace the bulb every year and quartz sleeve every 2 years.

Hopefully you can get past this, best of luck! White spot can seriously put people off this hobby and so can QT. We need to find a better way for the general reefer who is not on the same level as others (p.s thats a dig at myself, I suck at QT) :)

 

[MnFish1]

Just get a big high quality UV, that's how most of us Aussies manage it over here and it works like a charm. Ain't nobody got time for QT. Honestly oversize, high quality UV running the correct flow rates for 180,000 microwatts. You'll be able to keep those hard to keep fish without the hard work. I honestly can't rate UV enough it's been a god send in my tank! I had a outbreak not long ago after turning UV off for almost 2 years. Introduced some snails and got white spot again. Got my UV online and haven't seen white spot after about 2 weeks running it. It's been about 3 months now and no issue, no losses. Only losses I had recently was from the move and the people moving the tank left some fish too long in the hot sun(3 in total, 6line wrasse, stripey and my gold rim tang) Prior to this I had a crazy outbreak many years ago and again UV saved my skin of what fish was left from the devastation. Again can't rate UV enough. I have a lifegard UV, they make a fantastic product!

QT is hard, it's bloody hard and unforgiving. I always give hats off to those who have success with QT because I did not. It works but it's a lot of work, like a lot of it and a lot of discipline, it takes one stuff up to reverse all your hard work. More and more people are starting to report more success with correctly sized high quality UV. But you can't skimp out. They are not cheap and generally need to replace the bulb every year and quartz sleeve every 2 years.

Hopefully you can get past this, best of luck! White spot can seriously put people off this hobby and so can QT. We need to find a better way for the general reefer who is not on the same level as others (p.s thats a dig at myself, I suck at QT) :)

Americans have more patience than Aussies:):):):). But I do have a question for you - are most of the fish from Australia caught wild? And then brought to an LFS, etc - I'm wondering because immunity to illness may be stronger in this type of situation as compared to our supply chain. The stocking density in your tank would suggest a low likelyhood of disease spread

 

[vetteguy53081]

Just get a big high quality UV, that's how most of us Aussies manage it over here and it works like a charm. Ain't nobody got time for QT. Honestly oversize, high quality UV running the correct flow rates for 180,000 microwatts. You'll be able to keep those hard to keep fish without the hard work. I honestly can't rate UV enough it's been a god send in my tank! I had a outbreak not long ago after turning UV off for almost 2 years. Introduced some snails and got white spot again. Got my UV online and haven't seen white spot after about 2 weeks running it. It's been about 3 months now and no issue, no losses. Only losses I had recently was from the move and the people moving the tank left some fish too long in the hot sun(3 in total, 6line wrasse, stripey and my gold rim tang) Prior to this I had a crazy outbreak many years ago and again UV saved my skin of what fish was left from the devastation. Again can't rate UV enough. I have a lifegard UV, they make a fantastic product!

QT is hard, it's bloody hard and unforgiving. I always give hats off to those who have success with QT because I did not. It works but it's a lot of work, like a lot of it and a lot of discipline, it takes one stuff up to reverse all your hard work. More and more people are starting to report more success with correctly sized high quality UV. But you can't skimp out. They are not cheap and generally need to replace the bulb every year and quartz sleeve every 2 years.

Hopefully you can get past this, best of luck! White spot can seriously put people off this hobby and so can QT. We need to find a better way for the general reefer who is not on the same level as others (p.s thats a dig at myself, I suck at QT) :)

Quarantine has a purpose and advantage. UV is great but realize it addresses what is free floating and passes through the unit and in a figure of speech will NOT remove what is on the fish and pre-existing which leaves users of UV baffled as to why protozoans are still present

 

[toddb93]

Appreciate all the feedback here, always helps a lot when I reach out on here. I have my work cut out trying to catch these guys and get them treated. And I’ll probably get a good UV for the water column as well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Americans have more patience than Aussies:):):):). But I do have a question for you - are most of the fish from Australia caught wild? And then brought to an LFS, etc - I'm wondering because immunity to illness may be stronger in this type of situation as compared to our supply chain. The stocking density in your tank would suggest a low likelyhood of disease spread

I've gotten four shipments of fish over the years, direct from Cairns Marine. The health of these fish is many times better than the standard "SE Pacific" fish seen in US pet stores. We still quarantine their fish, but overall, the quality is SO much better! Even fish like regal angels and moorish idols are seemingly bulletproof from Australia.

Jay

 

[Cool tangs]

Quarantine has a purpose and advantage. UV is great but realize it addresses what is free floating and passes through the unit and in a figure of speech will NOT remove what is on the fish and pre-existing which leaves users of UV baffled as to why protozoans are still present

Vetteguy makes a good point. UV is not going to save fish that are already highly stressed, infected and on the last legs. But in fairness neither will copper. But also let's address that copper, TTM just like UV all address the issue when the Trophont falls off after the feeding stage (all the methods are addressing the theront stage). So in theory the concept is the same it's just copper is in the water at a concentrated level, so in theory copper would be more effective. TTM is transferring the fish out before before it has a chance to go through the full cycle and re-attach. UV targetting the water that flows through the UV sterilizer. It's generally argued that it's less effective. This is true in theory, but I wouldn't down play the effectiveness either(as vetteguy points out).

The effectiveness comes from early adoption of UV of not QTing fish, not when the fish is already infected as pointed out from vetteguy

Humblefish has a great website/forum for fish disease as well and highly recommend having a read and doing some self research.

I think it's important to give as much correct information as possible, and whilst I understand it can be challenging with some things in this hobby. Most of the advise I give is purely based on my experience, observations and research. Everyones experience will vary. I am happy to own any mistakes and have definitely made a lot in the past. This is why I always appreciate people like vetteguy who have lots of experience and are not shy to humbly point things out. There are some things still up for debate in this hobby, but that's all part of the experience and how we learn moving forward. I personally enjoy the path, it keeps me on my toes that's for sure

(Warning the below is a personal view and not peer reviewed information)
I personally think UV can still be a very effective method if correctly sized with the correct flow running. Now in theory if your well oversized you can turnover more water volume, in an attempt to feed more free floating parasites through the UV and destroy them. The other theory I have is in regards to having the pump directly pulling from the DT could potentially be more effective. As I have said many times it needs to be a high quality UV. I have used garbage off eBay before and it does nothing for parasites. It's not a cheap option. I think you could calculate some effectiveness on flow rates x times turnover of DT through the UV. Would love to do more research with other successful reefers using UV. I personally think UV is a great option for the average reefer vs QT, not saying QT is bad. It's just a lot of work as pointed out by me before

Happy reefing

 

[A1-reefer]

The main symptom of velvet, sometimes the only symptom, is rapid breathing and not eating. Ich and Brooklynella causes white lesions on the fish’s skin; white pinhead spots with ich, and thicker mucus for brooklynella (but ich can look like Brook in older infections).

Hi I tryed to post my own thread to get some help on this but for some reason it won’t post

New to the hobby , first reef tank

trying to do as much research as possible but noticed a coating of spots on one of my clowns after my research seems to look like velvet can any experienced people advice me on if they think the same .

Iv attached a video below

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi I tryed to post my own thread to get some help on this but for some reason it won’t post

New to the hobby , first reef tank

trying to do as much research as possible but noticed a coating of spots on one of my clowns after my research seems to look like velvet can any experienced people advice me on if they think the same .

Iv attached a video below

Sorry - the video didn't come through. Youtube often works better.

If you can see individual spots on the fish, then it isn't velvet, probably marine ich. Velvet causes rapid breathing, not eating and hanging in water currents, followed by death in a few days. Marine ich causes white spots, at first the fish will behave and eat normally. The spots increase in number over a few days and then the fish gets sicker and eventually dies (after 5 to 9 days).

 

[A1-reefer]

Thanks for your reply , it’s definitely not individual spots it’s more like thousands of tiny spots . Iv tryed to add video again if not I could send through instagram to you my account is @a1_reefer

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for your reply , it’s definitely not individual spots it’s more like thousands of tiny spots . Iv tryed to add video again if not I could send through instagram to you my account is @a1_reefer

The video is a bit blue but I think I can rule out ich or velvet. I can see some general cloudiness to the fish's skin. I'd say this is Brooklynella.