Very simple/basic cost comparison vs water changes/dosing

[Monkeytank]

Looks like a slight cost savings for me, even after adding in the testing cost. Compare the cost using the 10L size vs the 1L size; it's cheaper. I see several Pros to going with the Triton method even if it costs more. Time savings and stability increases are worth it to me. Using the 10L jugs will let me go around 130 days without having to mix stuff and refill containers for my dosing, which I have to do every month currently. Not carrying heavy boxes of salt down to my basement and having to stockpile them to avoid frequent orders. Less guesswork. I'm going to give it a shot.

 

[Mortie31]

What about the costs for lighting the algae bed as well, there are far more hidden costs than just buying the 4 bottles....Are people really usingTriton to save money? Surely it's the stability it offers if done correctly and the reduced number of water changes.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

What about the costs for lighting the algae bed as well, there are far more hidden costs than just buying the 4 bottles....Are people really usingTriton to save money? Surely it's the stability it offers if done correctly and the reduced number of water changes.

Like I said, this is to compare the cost of the supplements vs 2-part/water changes. There are also many 'hidden costs' to a water change schedule. Many people run a refugium with their water change maintenance, and use a pump to mix saltwater. Some even heat their water change water, and add supplements to the new water to adjust for particular values. There is also the increased cost of filter and RODI resin costs. Many also use other supplements [trace elements, etc.] even with a water change schedule.

This is not intended to 'push' Triton over anything else based upon a possible decrease in cost. Many people act as if Triton is ridiculously expensive when compared to 'just doing water changes'. This was to show people if/how much of a difference Triton as a base will change their costs.

If you want to add in the cost of adding a light, take your wattage and multiply it by the time your light is on, and then by your hourly energy rate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Like I said, this is to compare the cost of the supplements vs 2-part/water changes. There are also many 'hidden costs' to a water change schedule. Many people run a refugium with their water change maintenance, and use a pump to mix saltwater. Some even heat their water change water, and add supplements to the new water to adjust for particular values. There is also the increased cost of filter and RODI resin costs. Many also use other supplements [trace elements, etc.] even with a water change schedule.

This is not intended to 'push' Triton over anything else based upon a possible decrease in cost. Many people act as if Triton is ridiculously expensive when compared to 'just doing water changes'. This was to show people if/how much of a difference Triton as a base will change their costs.

If you want to add in the cost of adding a light, take your wattage and multiply it by the time your light is on, and then by your hourly energy rate.

I'm very confused . Maybe I am totally misunderstanding what you have done.

While I have no dog in this game, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges, and IMO, it seems useless???

All I see is a cost comparison of a different two parts plus water changes to the Triton two part, and even that seems grossly incorrect.

You are claiming that a two part needs to dose 700 mL of alk per day (that's 5.5 dKH per day using my DIY (BRS) or 8.7 dKH per day using B-ionic, both seems huge), but Triton needs to dose only 13 or 20 mL per day? What? That makes no sense.

Also, how does Triton reduce the need for water changes? In part by dosing needed trace element supplements and doing ICP tests to know what you need. No cost is added for those?

 

[Reef of Fillory]

I'm very confused . Maybe I am totally misunderstanding what you have done.

While I have no dog in this game, you seem to be comparing apples to oranges, and IMO, it seems useless???

All I see is a cost comparison of a different two parts plus water changes to the Triton two part, and even that seems grossly incorrect.

You are claiming that a two part needs to dose 700 mL of alk per day, but Triton needs to dose only 13 or 20 mL per day? What? That makes no sense.

Also, how does Triton reduce the need for water changes? In part by dosing needed trace element supplements and doing ICP tests to know what you need. No cost is added for those?

Those numbers are added by the person utilizing the spreadsheet, not by me... You're pushing against the wrong person here. I set up the tool to do the simple calculations so that people can plug in what they use/need and get a ballpark figure for the cost of Triton against the basic cost of 2 part dosing + water changes. Nothing is straightforward in this hobby as you should know...

Look again at the spreadsheet. The highlighted cells are user-input.

Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Those numbers are added by the person utilizing the spreadsheet, not by me... You're pushing against the wrong person here. I set up the tool to do the simple calculations so that people can plug in what they use/need and get a ballpark figure for the cost of Triton against the basic cost of 2 part dosing + water changes. Nothing is straightforward in this hobby as you should know...

Look again at the spreadsheet. The highlighted cells are user-input.

Thanks

How is someone supposed to know how much of the Triton alk and calcium they will need, and what about the other supplements and ICP testing?

 

[Reef of Fillory]

The input is for what they're currently dosing. Based upon Triton's recommended dose [automatically calculated], the user can increase the Triton dose to compare what it might cost passed the Triton recommended starting dose. If you'd like to set up a more comprehensive spreadsheet be my guest. I am not paid by or associated with Triton, and if you don't find it useful simply ignore it. =)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The recommended dose is an utterly useless comparison, and folks find it very hard to find out how potent the Triton additives are. Where do they publish those numbers?

A useful spreadsheet would know how potent Triton is and thus allow an actual comparison to other products.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

As I said, be my guest...

 

[skiergd011013]

It seems like if you have a big tank, it makes more sense to dose. I only have a 30 gallon, and rely on water changes.

 

[Reef of Fillory]

It seems like if you have a big tank, it makes more sense to dose. I only have a 30 gallon, and rely on water changes.

I think that when you get into bigger tanks one of the major factors is that calcium reactors become much more cost effective as well. I am using Triton on my 32G display [~45 gallon total] system and it has been a good bid easier for me.

 

[skiergd011013]

I think that when you get into bigger tanks one of the major factors is that calcium reactors become much more cost effective as well. I am using Triton on my 32G display [~45 gallon total] system and it has been a good bid easier for me.

nice. Mines just a sumpless 30 gallon. Slightly less than that with rock etc. I do 6 gallon weekly waterchanges with high trace mineral rscp salt. Thats pretty substantial. I wanted an easy,simple, low maintenance tank.

 

[reefwiser]

The problem with this costing of one method over another is you leave out the benefit of stable parameters that are always available in a Triton or DSR tank. Stability is the advantage not cost.

 

[Monkeytank]

I already have a 180 gallon sump with half as a refugium with algae bed and light it, so there is no additional cost for me with that. I would recommend everyone have one and light it opposite their display tank lighting schedule anyway. There are hidden costs with water changes that aren't factored into the comparison here that offset the additional costs of adding trace elements if they are shown to be needed through the tests. For me the costs besides the boxes of salt are about 350 gallons of water per month (counting the wasted water from the RO/DI process) and the cost of replacing RO/DI filters that I go through pretty fast with that water volume, plus still supplementing other elements. I've done one Triton test, and with my current method there were things I needed to add even after doing water changes. I started using Red Sea Coral Colors and saw positive results. I could have bought the $70+ boxes of salt to make sure I got more trace elements, but I opted for the cheapest $40 a box ones like Kent Marine and Reef Crystals when on sale and I bulked up. Seems like the cost is a wash in my situation.

By the way, for cost, I factored in a dose almost twice the recommend amount. Of course I won't know until I try it.

Time savings and less hassle will be the biggest factors for me. I use Randy's recipes for Alk, Calcium, and Magnesium. I'm mixing them in 5 gallon batches, and with a high SPS tank, I'm doing it a lot. Lifting the full 5 gallon bucket and pouring it into the 6 gallon containers I use is not too easy on my crappy back. Neither is lugging the 50lb bags of snowmelt (even though that isn't frequent). I factored into the spreadsheet the much cheaper cost of following Randy's recommendations, and still saw that it was probably a slight cost savings with Triton. Thanks for all the savings over the years Randy!!

 

[SaracensRugby]

So the triton and ATI Essentials methods dose trace elements, that those of us who aren't using the method supplement with water changes to a lesser or greater degree. I use Aquavitro Salinity salt, which has many trace elements listed (batch tested). So the question is, if I send my water to get tested and the parameters are good, why do I need to change over to a new system, outside of not wanting to do water changes? I would assume based upon a consistent water change schedule that my parameters are relatively stable as well. Certainly a lot of water is wasted when making RODI water being one reason. Seeing people having to dose in the 100s of ml for triton or ATI essentials has me a bit puzzled. But I am only 1 year in this hobby and trying to understand

 

[Reef of Fillory]

So the triton and ATI Essentials methods dose trace elements, that those of us who aren't using the method supplement with water changes to a lesser or greater degree. I use Aquavitro Salinity salt, which has many trace elements listed (batch tested). So the question is, if I send my water to get tested and the parameters are good, why do I need to change over to a new system, outside of not wanting to do water changes?

The 'answer' is that you don't need to change if what you're doing works and you're happy with the amount of maintenance. I haven't mixed saltwater or carried a bucket for water changes in 6 months. In my tank, $52 of Triton supplements will last me more than 2.5 years and my parameters have been very stable [Aside from zero nitrate which has led me to start dosing it]

Different strokes for different folks. This is just to help people decide whether the Triton method supplements will be substantially more or less expensive for their tanks if they're interested in exploring a new method.

 

[SaracensRugby]

The 'answer' is that you don't need to change if what you're doing works and you're happy with the amount of maintenance. I haven't mixed saltwater or carried a bucket for water changes in 6 months. In my tank, $52 of Triton supplements will last me more than 2.5 years and my parameters have been very stable [Aside from zero nitrate which has led me to start dosing it]

Different strokes for different folks. This is just to help people decide whether the Triton method supplements will be substantially more or less expensive for their tanks if they're interested in exploring a new method.

I appreciate the insight. Outside of Randy's chemistry posts and overall insight, I find most of this hobby to be anecdotal information/advice not based in hard data so to speak. Too many parameters from one tank to another, especially when taking flow/lighting into consideration. So whether it be Triton or ATI Essentials, I think they should be applauded for giving us access to real data on what is going on in our tanks at the chemistry level, and giving a roadmap to follow. At a minimum I think their testing is very beneficial, I am just trying to determine which program to follow for my new/2nd tank in 2018.

 

[sidney109]

im not going to play with your spreadsheet but in my 18inch cube a set of the original Triton bottles lasted me nearly 14 months, for the 50 quid they cost i wouldn't ever even consider lugging buckets of salt water around the house again.

thats the reason i love it

 

[Reef of Fillory]

im not going to play with your spreadsheet but in my 18inch cube a set of the original Triton bottles lasted me nearly 14 months, for the 50 quid they cost i wouldn't ever even consider lugging buckets of salt water around the house again.

thats the reason i love it

Agreed, mine is looking like it'll last more than 2.5 years for $52...

No more measuring out 2-part additives, mixing and checking SG and running RO/DI multiple times a week for top-off and water changes.

I use it as a 'complete' dosing regimen. I have yet to use the Triton lab tests, but I utilize their supplements for dosing. I may send in a sample once I can keep my nitrates steady via dosing stump remover.

 

[reefwiser]

The problem with water changes is that corals use up trace elements faster than we have thought before people started test and dosing trace elements. GlennF is a wealth of knowledge in this type of dosing. As he is tank zero in this movement with Triton and ATI working out from his work.

As an example of what dosing does to a Corals health.
Here is my Duncan coral 2 years ago

Here it is this morning

The only difference between the two images is that the tank is under a trace element coarse of treatment. No equipment has changed or anything other than trace element dosing

In the bottom image you can see the green in the stalk of the coral before the color was cream colored. This change occurred 4 weeks after dosing started. An the coral has been creating new heads every week since dosing began.
Before dosing new heads where being created.