Vibrant and cheato

[GoVols]

I'm a huge fan of the stuff, obviously. It seems like a very unique product in that it often causes people problems because it is too effective in some cases.

I agree

And, one needs to proceed with caution

 

[Tony Thompson]

It is not carbon dosing, although that seems to be a common misconception. It only has a small amount of vinegar which is most likely there for keeping the bacteria alive.

Yes I see it only has 0.5% vinegar but it also contains Aspartic Acid, is this not a method sometimes used to increase the bacterial count and create a bloom? Without knowing the bacterial strains I suppose I am poking in the dark. I have never used the stuff so have no idea how it affects Nitrate and phosphate levels. Very interesting though.

 

[Brew12]

Yes I see it only has 0.5% vinegar but it also contains Aspartic Acid, is this not a method sometimes used to increase the bacterial count and create a bloom? Without knowing the bacterial strains I suppose I am poking in the dark. I have never used the stuff so have no idea how it affects Nitrate and phosphate levels. Very interesting though.

Yes, Aspartic acid can also be considered carbon dosing. But we are talking a total of 1.5% between the two. At 1ml per 10g dosing you are still adding a tiny amount of each. This would be less than the typical daily dose of carbon dosing and it isn't done daily like most methods.

 

[Tony Thompson]

Yes, Aspartic acid can also be considered carbon dosing. But we are talking a total of 1.5% between the two. At 1ml per 10g dosing you are still adding a tiny amount of each. This would be less than the typical daily dose of carbon dosing and it isn't done daily like most methods.

Thanks @Brew12, I apologize for my limited comprehension. I still have so much to learn. Your comments have inspired me to do a bit more reading. I have already done some research with regards my algae cultures, so I will go back over my notes, I remember a number of parasitic organisms that can affect the algal growth. I just don`t remember any particular form of Bacteria. Following with interest.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Vibrant Ingredients -

95% Cultured Bacteria Blend
1% Amino Acids (Aspartic Acid)
0.5% Vinegar
3.5% RO/DI Water

Is this not just a way to starve the algae of nutrients.?

Looks like bacteria and food for the bacteria.

I wonder which strains of Bacteria are used.

I asked in their big thread and they said something about the bacteria actually eating the algae. Seemed far fetched to me.

 

[Brew12]

I asked in their big thread and they said something about the bacteria actually eating the algae. Seemed far fetched to me.

Isn't that what some of the work that @jason2459 seemed to show?
Our tank's biology up close

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Isn't that what some of the work that @jason2459 seemed to show?
Our tank's biology up close

I have no idea. I would think that eating a macroalgae, however, is a lot different than eating microalgae or phytoplankton.

 

[Brew12]

I have no idea. I would think that eating a macroalgae, however, is a lot different than eating microalgae or phytoplankton.

If it is a bacteria that consumes the chlorophyll, such as seems to have been found in this study (page 10) wouldn't it impact both?
http://www.mbl.edu/microbialdiversity/files/2012/08/mdiv2010Jaekel.pdf

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If it is a bacteria that consumes the chlorophyll, such as seems to have been found in this study (page 10) wouldn't it impact both?
http://www.mbl.edu/microbialdiversity/files/2012/08/mdiv2010Jaekel.pdf

That study showed that bacteria can degrade loose chlorophyll molecules, helping to understand how chlorophyll in the environment is reused.

"This study aimed to enrich for microorganisms that can use chlorophyll (a or b) as a sole substrate for growth both in the presence and absence of molecular oxygen, since there seems to be a gap in our understanding of the significance of microbial turnover of the globally abundant chlorophyll."

But that's different from saying it can chew its way through living tissue to get to chlorophyll that is inside cells in macroalgae (or even microalgae).

Sort of like saying that a bacteria that can metabolize proteins in a human cell is necessarily a flesh eating bacteria.

 

[Brew12]

That study showed that bacteria can degrade loose chlorophyll molecules, helping to understand how chlorophyll in the environment is reused.

"This study aimed to enrich for microorganisms that can use chlorophyll (a or b) as a sole substrate for growth both in the presence and absence of molecular oxygen, since there seems to be a gap in our understanding of the significance of microbial turnover of the globally abundant chlorophyll."

But that's different from saying it can chew its way through living tissue to get to chlorophyll that is inside cells in macroalgae (or even microalgae).

Sort of like saying that a bacteria that can metabolize proteins in a human cell is necessarily a flesh eating bacteria.

No argument there.

If how it worked was easy to figure out I'm guessing it would have competition on the market.

 

[Pola0502ds]

Had a bubble algae problem so dosed heavily with Vibrant. Chato all but gone. Haven't found a good source that doesn't charge a small fortune like L.A. because of shipping. Any suggestions? Algae Barn also expensive.

When i was dosing vibrant it killed all my cheato and took forever to grow once i stopped. Same thing happened to a buddy who dosed for bubble algae but every square inch of rock was covered in and its now gone thanks to vibrant.

 

[PopaSmurph]

Or just take an all natural approach by dropping in 2 small fighting conch and a emerald crab, in which you can clearly see them eating algae and stirring/cleaning your sand bed. Not to mention if your frag plugs start to get unruly you could put them infront of you conch and they take care of it farly quick. My emerald crab almost exterminated the bubble algae population an now helps with frag plugs and any algae that may pop up on rocks. Plus my cheato is doing great!

 

[David S]

Every tank will be different so it is hard to say. My sand doesn't get too bad in between the every 2 week dosing. If your sand is getting dirtier faster, you have more nutrients total than I do.

I would start dosing the Vibrant once every 9 or 10 days and see if that improves the sand without hurting the Chaeto. Unless you see the chaeto suffering, let it go for a few weeks and then start making small changes.

Thanks
Didn't know that Vibrant negatively impacted Chaeto.
Have been dosing twice weekly, for some time, to try to eliminate some turf algae in the display.
I've seen no effect on the micro algae but I noticed the Chaeto in my HOB fuge stopped growing. Also I've been noticing some green slime algae originating from the fuge, which I've never seen before.
Will discontinue Vibrant, once and for all and see what happens.

 

[Brew12]

Thanks
Didn't know that Vibrant negatively impacted Chaeto.
Have been dosing twice weekly, for some time, to try to eliminate some turf algae in the display.
I've seen no effect on the micro algae but I noticed the Chaeto in my HOB fuge stopped growing. Also I've been noticing some green slime algae originating from the fuge, which I've never seen before.
Will discontinue Vibrant, once and for all and see what happens.

I'd recommend pullling the Chaeto for now and continue with the Vibrant unless you have a better option for the turf algae.

Care to show a picture of the turf algae you are fighting?

 

[David S]

I'd recommend pullling the Chaeto for now and continue with the Vibrant unless you have a better option for the turf algae.

Care to show a picture of the turf algae you are fighting?

Actually I was going to add, in the previous post that the turf algae was not at all a serious problem. More of a cosmetic issue.
My Acros etc. Seem more than capable of dealing with it (they have no problem encrusting over it).
I'll try and post some photos later.

 

[Brew12]

Actually I was going to add, in the previous post that the turf algae was not at all a serious problem. More of a cosmetic issue.
My Acros etc. Seem more than capable of dealing with it (they have no problem encrusting over it).
I'll try and post some photos later.

I only ask for pictures because I had a short growing strain of bryopsis that I initially thought was turf. Easily cleared using Fluconazole.

 

[David S]

I only ask for pictures because I had a short growing strain of bryopsis that I initially thought was turf. Easily cleared using Fluconazole.

Wow
Sounds like we're talking about the same thing.
You'll excuse me for using the term "turf" algae but I considered it interchangeable with Bryopsis. Yes it is of a short growing variety.
And yes I did treat it with Fluconazale, about a year ago - with little affect.
Dosed it again a few weeks later with virtually no affect.
Ultimately it, temporarily at least, did more harm than good.
I decided that since my corals had been resistant to this strain of algae I'd live and let live.
That was until I decided to try Vibrant, which I had on hand.
But I had been under the impression it had no effect on Macro algaes. At least that's what the makers claimed.

 

[Brew12]

Wow
Sounds like we're talking about the same thing.
You'll excuse me for using the term "turf" algae but I considered it interchangeable with Bryopsis. Yes it is of a short growing variety.
And yes I did treat it with Fluconazale, about a year ago - with little affect.
Dosed it again a few weeks later with virtually no affect.
Ultimately it, temporarily at least, did more harm than good.
I decided that since my corals had been resistant to this strain of algae I'd live and let live.
That was until I decided to try Vibrant, which I had on hand.
But I had been under the impression it had no effect on Macro algaes. At least that's what the makers claimed.

Bubble algae is a macro algae and UWC states it is very effective against it. What I have seen the makers claim is that it doesn't impact macro algaes in fuges when used at the maintenance dose of once every 2 weeks which I can confirm because I use it and my chaeto grows fine.
I just finished treating my bryopsis. Using a combination of Fluco and Vibrant it took around 13 days before my tank had no signs of it. My chaeto even came through just fine.
I don't have a great picture of it handy, but you can see it on the left hand side of this photo.

 

[David S]

Bubble algae is a macro algae and UWC states it is very effective against it. What I have seen the makers claim is that it doesn't impact macro algaes in fuges when used at the maintenance dose of once every 2 weeks which I can confirm because I use it and my chaeto grows fine.
I just finished treating my bryopsis. Using a combination of Fluco and Vibrant it took around 13 days before my tank had no signs of it. My chaeto even came through just fine.
I don't have a great picture of it handy, but you can see it on the left hand side of this photo.

Photo coming later

 

[David S]

Bubble algae is a macro algae and UWC states it is very effective against it. What I have seen the makers claim is that it doesn't impact macro algaes in fuges when used at the maintenance dose of once every 2 weeks which I can confirm because I use it and my chaeto grows fine.
I just finished treating my bryopsis. Using a combination of Fluco and Vibrant it took around 13 days before my tank had no signs of it. My chaeto even came through just fine.
I don't have a great picture of it handy, but you can see it on the left hand side of this photo.

OK
here are 3 photos
1st (2359) is a bit overexposed but shows the algae in all its "glory"
2nd a bit more flattering to the corals but algae a bit under.
3rd done with a flash - most flattering to the corals.